Last year we were talking (offline) about an idea of organizing Fedora Localization FAD. So far nothing more has been decided. There was an idea to organize it during or near another big conference so we could save money on travel & accommodation, especially for the people from outside Europe (Noriko, Pravin, I'm thinking about you). As Flock date and venue has been announced, do you think we can organize L10n FAD together with Flock?
My thoughts:
- I suggest to organize FAD immediately after or immediately before Flock but not during Flock. If you organize it during Flock then people will be unable to attend both events. - Much depends on how long the event will be. If it is one day or less then it does not make sense to move anywhere from Dresden, due to the travel cost. - Translation sprint has been already scheduled to start on August 15, that is 4 days after Flock. It would be nice to merge it with L10n FAD and make it non-virtual event. However, I think we don't want the FAD to be that long: 4 days as a gap between those events + few more days to include the sprint at least partially. - Poland was mentioned as a suggested location. If this is your preferred destination then I can help organizing. Usually it is possible to find accommodation 3-5 times cheaper than in Dresden. However, if you have another decision it can be any country in a reasonable distance (Czech Republic is worth considering). - Note that August 15 is a public holiday in Poland. - It is likely that I will be unable to attend the FAD (which I regret) but still I can help organizing.
Regards,
Rafal
On 2018/04/28 9:06, Rafal Luzynski wrote:
Last year we were talking (offline) about an idea of organizing Fedora Localization FAD. So far nothing more has been decided. There was an idea to organize it during or near another big conference so we could save money on travel & accommodation, especially for the people from outside Europe (Noriko, Pravin, I'm thinking about you). As Flock date and venue has been announced, do you think we can organize L10n FAD together with Flock?
Hi Rafal Thanks for this heads up! It sounds good idea. I am going to submit my talk for flock, so if luckily I am picked then I will be able to be there. Let's start discussion from your thoughts as a base!
All translators Could you please respond if you are interested in attending this event?
My thoughts:
- I suggest to organize FAD immediately after or immediately before Flock but not during Flock. If you organize it during Flock then people will be unable to attend both events.
after or before, we can choose the location for l10n fad. during flock, there will be some limitation but still I think doable.
- Much depends on how long the event will be. If it is one day or less then it does not make sense to move anywhere from Dresden, due to the travel cost.
If we can reach a fund support, maybe we can hire a bus for transportation to move around. Are we able to access a fund to organize FAD?
- Translation sprint has been already scheduled to start on August 15, that is 4 days after Flock. It would be nice to merge it with L10n FAD and make it non-virtual event. However, I think we don't want the FAD to be that long: 4 days as a gap between those events + few more days to include the sprint at least partially.
- Poland was mentioned as a suggested location. If this is your preferred destination then I can help organizing. Usually it is possible to find accommodation 3-5 times cheaper than in Dresden. However, if you have another decision it can be any country in a reasonable distance (Czech Republic is worth considering).
- Note that August 15 is a public holiday in Poland.
- It is likely that I will be unable to attend the FAD (which I regret) but still I can help organizing.
Thank you so much raising your hand being a organizer! What makes you to change your mind and attend l10n fad?
Thanks again!
noriko
Regards,
Rafal _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Noriko, thank you for your response.
28.04.2018 03:39 Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
On 2018/04/28 9:06, Rafal Luzynski wrote: [...]
- Much depends on how long the event will be. If it is one day
or less then it does not make sense to move anywhere from Dresden, due to the travel cost.
If we can reach a fund support, maybe we can hire a bus for transportation to move around.
That's definitely reasonable (cheaper) if there is a sufficient number of attendees, like 10-20 or more people.
Are we able to access a fund to organize FAD?
That's not a question to me but I hope so. Therefore we must explain why this meeting is good for Fedora and minimize the costs.
[...] Thank you so much raising your hand being a organizer! What makes you to change your mind and attend l10n fad?
Family plans. But that's not the ultimate decision.
Thanks again!
noriko
You are most welcome.
Regards,
Rafal
Le 28/04/2018 à 03:39, Noriko Mizumoto a écrit :
Thanks for this heads up! It sounds good idea. I am going to submit my talk for flock, so if luckily I am picked then I will be able to be there. Let's start discussion from your thoughts as a base!
Good idea indeed, I'm also interested, but I lack time even to do the minimum coordination here...
Most of the time, the last day of Flock is quite free, I would find it easier to focus on august 11th. So attendees can come back home on Sunday, without impacting much on holidays/work. It would make it easier for me.
With the kind help of Zoltan (other may have helped too), two years ago I tried to write down a few ideas about how to improve localization: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jibecfed/Localization_proposal-Help_lang...
In addition, last year talk was also including some ideas about current issues and hints for improvements: https://jibecfed.fedorapeople.org/pr%c3%a9sentations/2017-08-31%20Flock%20L1...
For now, my conviction is our biggest issue is related to the tools we have and don't have, we are blind on multiple subjects.
Hi Jean-Baptiste, Rafal and all translators
On 2018/04/29 2:14, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft wrote:
Le 28/04/2018 à 03:39, Noriko Mizumoto a écrit :
Thanks for this heads up! It sounds good idea. I am going to submit my talk for flock, so if luckily I am picked then I will be able to be there. Let's start discussion from your thoughts as a base!
Good idea indeed, I'm also interested, but I lack time even to do the minimum coordination here...
Most of the time, the last day of Flock is quite free, I would find it easier to focus on august 11th. So attendees can come back home on Sunday, without impacting much on holidays/work. It would make it easier for me.
With the kind help of Zoltan (other may have helped too), two years ago I tried to write down a few ideas about how to improve localization: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jibecfed/Localization_proposal-Help_lang...
In addition, last year talk was also including some ideas about current issues and hints for improvements: https://jibecfed.fedorapeople.org/pr%c3%a9sentations/2017-08-31%20Flock%20L1...
For now, my conviction is our biggest issue is related to the tools we have and don't have, we are blind on multiple subjects.
Thanks for the input from Jean-Baptiste and Rafal, we can start discuss and decide basic items below. Is anyone can help and be organizer?
* Attendees - we may need certain number of attendees to have a fad. Too few attendees may not work, I guess. * Date - selection: immediately before or after, or 11-Aug * Location - selection: the place able to move by bus, or Dresden * Fund - can we support attendees to reach this fad? * Topics - "how to improve localization" by Jean-Baptiste, feel free to add more. * Organizers - Rafal (noriko)
PING Pravin, you successfully organized fad in Tokyo. Now would you like to help us here again?
noriko
On Sun, Apr 29, 2018, 7:02 AM Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jean-Baptiste, Rafal and all translators
On 2018/04/29 2:14, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft wrote:
Le 28/04/2018 à 03:39, Noriko Mizumoto a écrit :
Thanks for this heads up! It sounds good idea. I am going to submit my talk for flock, so if luckily I am picked then I will be able to be there. Let's start discussion from your thoughts as a base!
Good idea indeed, I'm also interested, but I lack time even to do the minimum coordination here...
Most of the time, the last day of Flock is quite free, I would find it easier to focus on august 11th. So attendees can come back home on Sunday, without impacting much on holidays/work. It would make it easier for me.
With the kind help of Zoltan (other may have helped too), two years ago I tried to write down a few ideas about how to improve localization:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jibecfed/Localization_proposal-Help_lang...
In addition, last year talk was also including some ideas about current issues and hints for improvements:
https://jibecfed.fedorapeople.org/pr%c3%a9sentations/2017-08-31%20Flock%20L1...
For now, my conviction is our biggest issue is related to the tools we have and don't have, we are blind on multiple subjects.
Thanks for the input from Jean-Baptiste and Rafal, we can start discuss and decide basic items below. Is anyone can help and be organizer?
- Attendees - we may need certain number of attendees to have a fad. Too
few attendees may not work, I guess.
- Date - selection: immediately before or after, or 11-Aug
- Location - selection: the place able to move by bus, or Dresden
- Fund - can we support attendees to reach this fad?
- Topics - "how to improve localization" by Jean-Baptiste, feel free to
add more.
- Organizers - Rafal (noriko)
PING Pravin, you successfully organized fad in Tokyo. Now would you like to help us here again?
Yes.. i am here to help and also participate. :)
We need agenda to make this successful. Can someone create wiki page and add firsr few thoughts? (i am away from laptop now).. jean-baptiste has already suggested few point's.
-- Pravin
noriko _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
29.04.2018 03:31 Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
- Attendees - we may need certain number of attendees to have a fad. Too
few attendees may not work, I guess.
I suggest people to reply here if they would like to attend or maybe when we create a wiki page they will be able just to add their names to avoid the noise here.
- Date - selection: immediately before or after, or 11-Aug
- Location - selection: the place able to move by bus, or Dresden
Almost every place is accessible by bus and also please include a train.
What about this brainstorming idea:
Flock starts on August 8. Let's organize FAD on August 6 and 7 (Monday and Tuesday), whole days, with people arriving on Sunday, Aug 5 evening and leaving Wednesday, August 8 early in the morning.
The event should be funded by Fedora and the cost will be near zero. Here is why: Flock starts on August 8 in the morning. People will likely arrive on August 7 evening. The hotel in Dresden is rather expensive, like everywhere in Germany and in whole western Europe, the cost is 100 € per night, if I understand correctly. If we promise to arrive on August 8 in the morning then we save money for one night and this is sufficient to spend 2-6 nights in a hotel in Poland or in any other cheap location. Maybe I'm little hyperbolizing and this calculation does not include the travel cost. A single journey train ticket costs 20 € and discounts are available (e.g., for a group travel), also likely we'll find a cheaper transport, like a bus. We need about 2-4 hours to arrive which means we'll have to leave like 4 AM or 6 AM. Shall we be tired? Yes but you can have a little nap on bus or a train, also you will be tired if you spend 10 or 20 hours on the plane instead.
Location: please reuse this proposal: https://pagure.io/flock/issue/2 and also I'd like to suggest this mountain resort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrna_G%C3%B3ra,_Lower_Silesian_Voivodeship or we can have hundreds of other locations. The locations from Czech Republic and Germany are also welcome, I just cannot suggest anything specific.
- Fund - can we support attendees to reach this fad?
Hopefully, see above.
- Topics - "how to improve localization" by Jean-Baptiste, feel free to
add more.
I think I'd like to see the translators moving their tasks forward, onboarding newcomers, identifying and fixing the problems, like common mistakes or software bugs making the translation difficult or impossible, exchanging their experiences. So, like a motto of Flock 2017: more "do" than "talk".
- Organizers - Rafal (noriko)
PING Pravin, you successfully organized fad in Tokyo. Now would you like to help us here again?
Thank you Noriko and Pravin for joining as organizers.
Regards,
Rafal
Hello team,
On 04/30/2018 12:29 PM, Rafal Luzynski wrote:
29.04.2018 03:31 Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
- Attendees - we may need certain number of attendees to have a fad. Too
few attendees may not work, I guess.
I suggest people to reply here if they would like to attend or maybe when we create a wiki page they will be able just to add their names to avoid the noise here.
Yes, a wiki page would be easier.
- Date - selection: immediately before or after, or 11-Aug
- Location - selection: the place able to move by bus, or Dresden
Almost every place is accessible by bus and also please include a train.
What about this brainstorming idea:
Flock starts on August 8. Let's organize FAD on August 6 and 7 (Monday and Tuesday), whole days, with people arriving on Sunday, Aug 5 evening and leaving Wednesday, August 8 early in the morning.
If we need two days for the FAD it's better to start on August 5, and so on August 7 people will be able to travel and reach Dresden. If people would fly very early on August 8 they will be tired for Flock.
The event should be funded by Fedora and the cost will be near zero. Here is why: Flock starts on August 8 in the morning. People will likely arrive on August 7 evening. The hotel in Dresden is rather expensive, like everywhere in Germany and in whole western Europe, the cost is 100 € per night, if I understand correctly. If we promise to arrive on August 8 in the morning then we save money for one night and this is sufficient to spend 2-6 nights in a hotel in Poland or in any other cheap location. Maybe I'm little hyperbolizing and this calculation does not include the travel cost. A single journey train ticket costs 20 € and discounts are available (e.g., for a group travel), also likely we'll find a cheaper transport, like a bus. We need about 2-4 hours to arrive which means we'll have to leave like 4 AM or 6 AM. Shall we be tired? Yes but you can have a little nap on bus or a train, also you will be tired if you spend 10 or 20 hours on the plane instead.
I think is better to think why we need this FAD, why is important for our team etc rather than budget. Before thinking about money and cost, I would focus on content and ideas first.
Location: please reuse this proposal: https://u4999934.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=PEGtk34F2vzY-2FdDEgdADyfYGnoxN... and also I'd like to suggest this mountain resort: https://u4999934.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=PEGtk34F2vzY-2FdDEgdADyfHI8hnz... or we can have hundreds of other locations. The locations from Czech Republic and Germany are also welcome, I just cannot suggest anything specific.
- Fund - can we support attendees to reach this fad?
Hopefully, see above.
- Topics - "how to improve localization" by Jean-Baptiste, feel free to
add more.
I think I'd like to see the translators moving their tasks forward, onboarding newcomers, identifying and fixing the problems, like common mistakes or software bugs making the translation difficult or impossible, exchanging their experiences. So, like a motto of Flock 2017: more "do" than "talk".
- Organizers - Rafal (noriko)
PING Pravin, you successfully organized fad in Tokyo. Now would you like to help us here again?
Thank you Noriko and Pravin for joining as organizers.
I'm happy to see the discussions to organize a L10n FAD. I would be happy to help organize it.
Cheers, Jona
Regards,
Rafal _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Le 30/04/2018 à 13:29, Jona Azizaj a écrit :
I think is better to think why we need this FAD, why is important for our team etc rather than budget. Before thinking about money and cost, I would focus on content and ideas first.
good advice!
here is one proposal
statement: there is no lack of translators, but lack of goals and objectives for localization so we can give our best
I'll be happy to have localization existing not only as one of the many ways to contribute Fedora and open source software, but as one of the key objectives of Fedora.
Quoting our mission [1] « At the operating system level, we don’t just integrate. We do new things — we build a /platform/, not just a distribution. The /Features/ and /First/ foundations drive us to innovate. We do all of this as a transparent, collaborative community of /Friends/, and entirely as open source and free software — /Freedom/. »
When we read our values, we have a technological view of what means "Features" and "First". But we don't have anything related to end-user languages and consequently user experience. Our friends from internationalization does a great job including the technical foundations into the distribution, and I feel like we should go further and lead the way for localization too. It doesn't really makes much sense to be able to type and read in your language but only read English UI, English websites, English documentation.
Innovation is not only bringing new technologies, it's also bringing it to the user. Language is the most important thing in our lives, it is the carrier of our culture. The Linux community as a whole should offer a good (non-english) user experience, and we can also have "Features" and "First" here.
A great objective to me for this FAD would be to define a Localization objective for Fedora
Note: fedora objectives[2] are 12-18 Month Community Objectives
This means a lot: from agreeing on what we want to do, to identify what we need to do. Then we'll have to drive it and find people to make it real.
You can have a look to Modularization objective [3] or CI/CD for Fedora Atomic Host [4]
We don't have to change the Fedora Mission to improve the situation (yet 😉), but I'm sure we can do something interesting.
While I'm not a member of the Free Software Foundation, I find interesting that this subject is one of the priority projects[5].
[1] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-project/project/fedora-overview.html#o...
[2] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-project/project/objectives.html
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Fedora_Modularization_%E2%80%94_Th...
[4] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Continuous_Integration_and_Deliver...
[5] https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/internationalization
30.04.2018 19:54 Jean-Baptiste Holcroft jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr wrote:
[...] statement: there is no lack of translators, [...]
I dare to disagree. While this is true for many languages I can also see translations to many other languages started and unfinished or abandoned. For example, most (maybe all) languages of India look abandoned to me, except Pravin contributing occasionally, while according to your slides [1] (page 4) it is the largest target audience of Fedora.
Since my contributions sometimes affect many or all languages I sometimes want to discuss the changes with people (translators) from multiple languages. Sometimes it is difficult to find actual people using some languages. Sometimes I abuse translators mailing lists for more general questions. And even then finally I got feedback from too few languages. Gathering people from ~20 languages and having an opportunity to discuss few issues with them would be my dream. I appreciate DevConf.cz where I actually met some of them.
Regards,
Rafal
[1] https://jibecfed.fedorapeople.org/pr%c3%a9sentations/2017-08-31%20Flock%20L1...
And even then finally I got feedback from too few languages. Gathering people from ~20 languages and having an opportunity to discuss few issues with them would be my dream. I appreciate DevConf.cz where I actually met some of them.
I totally agree. I would like to strengthen the unity as Localization team, so that we can reach all languages when we need to make a decision, or when we are asked for help or discussion from a developer, etc.
noriko
Regards,
Rafal
[1] https://jibecfed.fedorapeople.org/pr%c3%a9sentations/2017-08-31%20Flock%20L1... _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
30.04.2018 13:29 Jona Azizaj jonaazizaj@gmail.com wrote:
Hello team,
On 04/30/2018 12:29 PM, Rafal Luzynski wrote:
[...] What about this brainstorming idea:
Flock starts on August 8. Let's organize FAD on August 6 and 7 (Monday and Tuesday), whole days, with people arriving on Sunday, Aug 5 evening and leaving Wednesday, August 8 early in the morning.If we need two days for the FAD
TBH, I don't know how many days we need. But if it is less than 2 days then we don't need to organize anything, just make it the last day of Flock. Those 2 days look good in a calendar, that's all. Note that it is brainstorming. :)
it's better to start on August 5, and so on August 7 people will be able to travel and reach Dresden. If people would fly very early on August 8 they will be tired for Flock.
If we arrive to Dresden on August 7 then there is no benefit for Fedora on saving money and on making it near Flock (near in time and in distance). Also I'm not thinking about flying, I'm thinking about nearby locations accessible by cheap and quick transport like a train or a bus. Note that the locations I'm thinking about are between 2 an 4 hours of drive. It can be closer but I'm afraid that it raises the cost.
I always think about making an event as cheap as possible. If this is not a top priority then maybe I misunderstand the issue.
[...] I think is better to think why we need this FAD, why is important for our team etc rather than budget. Before thinking about money and cost, I would focus on content and ideas first.
These are also important questions, thank you for raising them in public. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can answer.
[...]
* Organizers – Rafal (noriko) PING Pravin, you successfully organized fad in Tokyo. Now wouldyou like to help us here again?
Thank you Noriko and Pravin for joining as organizers.I'm happy to see the discussions to organize a L10n FAD. I would be happy to help organize it.
Thank you for joining, Jona.
Cheers, Jona
30.04.2018 18:42 Silvia Sánchez lailahfsf@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Rafal & everyone,
The hotel is expensive because is a super expensive hotel. Normally accommodation in Germany is quite reasonable.
If you find a double room in a hotel in Germany 40 €/night, including breakfast - then I'm all in a favor of making it.
Personally, I may attend FLOCK but I seriously doubt I will stay in that hotel as I can't pay such prices. But AFAIK, one can stay anywhere, is not mandatory to stay in the same hotel where the conference is. So... why putting a FAD 3 days before FLOCK starts will cost near zero? I didn't understand that part.
This part applies to the people being funded by Fedora. If we explain that instead of funding one night (which is funded in this particular hotel) they can fund 3 days of FAD then I hope the chance they agree is higher. Also, I'm not telling it is exactly zero, it may be slightly above. Or below. :)
The people who pay with their own money may meet wherever and whenever they want, without explaining Fedora why they meet and why it is so expensive.
If you plan to take a nap in a German train or bus, be careful, you may miss the stop. [...]
I assume that in that part we are going to travel in a large group, all FAD attendees together, likely with our own bus which may be cheaper than a public transport.
Regards,
Rafal
Hi all As requested, the wiki page created. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August
[...] I think is better to think why we need this FAD, why is important for our team etc rather than budget. Before thinking about money and cost, I would focus on content and ideas first.
These are also important questions, thank you for raising them in public. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can answer.
Thank you Jona and Rafal, Let's focus and shape the FAD first how we want. Then we will be able to identify the need.
Rafal, Pravin and Silvia I am thinking that it would be nice if we can meet people from other teams, such as i18n, dev team, web, hub, docs, Zanata, etc. This will help them to understand Localization team, in same time we will be able to obtain help and direct answers for questions we have. Could you kindly invite the other teams you are working closer?
.....after I created the page......I noticed that I should have named it g11n fad?!......while fltg seems stop working......please advise what is the best naming....
Thanks
noriko
I would love to join in too if possible. I understand they have changed the format for this coming Flock that is more focus on workshop rather than presentation. Unless I can collaborate with someone with that, otherwise it will be hard for me to get any travel sponsorship from Fedora.
On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all As requested, the wiki page created. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August
[...]
I think is better to think why we need this FAD, why is important for our team etc rather than budget. Before thinking about money and cost, I would focus on content and ideas first.
These are also important questions, thank you for raising them in public. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can answer.
Thank you Jona and Rafal, Let's focus and shape the FAD first how we want. Then we will be able to identify the need.
Rafal, Pravin and Silvia I am thinking that it would be nice if we can meet people from other teams, such as i18n, dev team, web, hub, docs, Zanata, etc. This will help them to understand Localization team, in same time we will be able to obtain help and direct answers for questions we have. Could you kindly invite the other teams you are working closer?
.....after I created the page......I noticed that I should have named it g11n fad?!......while fltg seems stop working......please advise what is the best naming....
Thanks
noriko
On 2018/05/01 14:26, Alex Eng wrote:
I would love to join in too if possible. I understand they have changed the format for this coming Flock that is more focus on workshop rather than presentation. Unless I can collaborate with someone with that, otherwise it will be hard for me to get any travel sponsorship from Fedora.
May I raise my hand to be someone of you? --noriko
On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Noriko Mizumoto <noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com mailto:noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all As requested, the wiki page created. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August> [...] I think is better to think why we need this FAD, why is important for our team etc rather than budget. Before thinking about money and cost, I would focus on content and ideas first. These are also important questions, thank you for raising them in public. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can answer. Thank you Jona and Rafal, Let's focus and shape the FAD first how we want. Then we will be able to identify the need. Rafal, Pravin and Silvia I am thinking that it would be nice if we can meet people from other teams, such as i18n, dev team, web, hub, docs, Zanata, etc. This will help them to understand Localization team, in same time we will be able to obtain help and direct answers for questions we have. Could you kindly invite the other teams you are working closer? .....after I created the page......I noticed that I should have named it g11n fad?!......while fltg seems stop working......please advise what is the best naming.... Thanks noriko--
ALEX ENG
ASSOCIATE MANAGER
globalization TOOLING, CUSTOMER PLATFORM
Red Hat Inc https://www.redhat.com/
193 North Quay, Brisbane City QLD 4000
alex.eng@redhat.com mailto:aeng@redhat.com M: 0423353457 tel:0423353457 IM: aeng
1.05.2018 06:06 Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all As requested, the wiki page created. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August
Thank you, Noriko! This is perfect. I have added several proposed locations and more locations are welcome if anybody wants to add.
Also, a short explanation: I'd like to see the newcomers' workshop but I don't think it's the right thing for me to organize. I'll be happy to organize the other workshop.
[...] Rafal, Pravin and Silvia I am thinking that it would be nice if we can meet people from other teams, such as i18n, dev team, web, hub, docs, Zanata, etc. This will help them to understand Localization team, in same time we will be able to obtain help and direct answers for questions we have.
This is even a bigger dream to gather all people which should be involved. This sounds like a bigger event for me, like whole Flock. :-)
Could you kindly invite the other teams you are working closer?
I will try to pass the message although the teams I am working with are sometimes beyond Fedora.
.....after I created the page......I noticed that I should have named it g11n fad?!......while fltg seems stop working......please advise what is the best naming....
I think that L10n FAD is a good and correct name. We had G11n FAD last year [1] hm... actually I18N FAD, and I was told many times that this was not the same thing as L10n FAD. We were not talking about translations, or if we were then not about particular languages but about translations in general.
Regards,
Rafal
Hi all,
I can take the Beginners' Workshop. About locations, I only see Dresden. Am I missing something?
Kind regards, Silvia FAS: Lailah
On 1 May 2018 at 21:01, Rafal Luzynski digitalfreak@lingonborough.com wrote:
1.05.2018 06:06 Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all As requested, the wiki page created. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August
Thank you, Noriko! This is perfect. I have added several proposed locations and more locations are welcome if anybody wants to add.
Also, a short explanation: I'd like to see the newcomers' workshop but I don't think it's the right thing for me to organize. I'll be happy to organize the other workshop.
[...] Rafal, Pravin and Silvia I am thinking that it would be nice if we can meet people from other teams, such as i18n, dev team, web, hub, docs, Zanata, etc. This will help them to understand Localization team, in same time we will be able to obtain help and direct answers for questions we have.
This is even a bigger dream to gather all people which should be involved. This sounds like a bigger event for me, like whole Flock. :-)
Could you kindly invite the other teams you are working closer?
I will try to pass the message although the teams I am working with are sometimes beyond Fedora.
.....after I created the page......I noticed that I should have named it g11n fad?!......while fltg seems stop working......please advise what is the best naming....
I think that L10n FAD is a good and correct name. We had G11n FAD last year [1] hm... actually I18N FAD, and I was told many times that this was not the same thing as L10n FAD. We were not talking about translations, or if we were then not about particular languages but about translations in general.
Regards,
Rafal
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_I18N_2017 _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 2018/05/05 8:58, Silvia Sánchez wrote:
Hi all,
I can take the Beginners' Workshop. About locations, I only see Dresden. Am I missing something?
Haaaiiii Silvia!! Thanks for taking this workshop, please insert your name there. About location, we need to identify when and where the best, depending on the attendees preference and our plan. It is just one of the option, Dresden is. Please feel free to share your opinion and preference.
Hey all translators, Without your indication of the interest, we may not be able to proceed. You may have complete alternate/different idea than any of those. Please share your thoughts and indicate your interest.
noriko
Kind regards, Silvia FAS: Lailah
On 1 May 2018 at 21:01, Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak@lingonborough.com mailto:digitalfreak@lingonborough.com> wrote:
1.05.2018 06:06 Noriko Mizumoto <noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com <mailto:noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi all > As requested, the wiki page created. > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August> Thank you, Noriko! This is perfect. I have added several proposed locations and more locations are welcome if anybody wants to add. Also, a short explanation: I'd like to see the newcomers' workshop but I don't think it's the right thing for me to organize. I'll be happy to organize the other workshop. > [...] > Rafal, Pravin and Silvia > I am thinking that it would be nice if we can meet people from other > teams, such as i18n, dev team, web, hub, docs, Zanata, etc. > This will help them to understand Localization team, in same time we > will be able to obtain help and direct answers for questions we have. This is even a bigger dream to gather all people which should be involved. This sounds like a bigger event for me, like whole Flock. :-) > Could you kindly invite the other teams you are working closer? I will try to pass the message although the teams I am working with are sometimes beyond Fedora. > .....after I created the page......I noticed that I should have named it > g11n fad?!......while fltg seems stop working......please advise what is > the best naming.... I think that L10n FAD is a good and correct name. We had G11n FAD last year [1] hm... actually I18N FAD, and I was told many times that this was not the same thing as L10n FAD. We were not talking about translations, or if we were then not about particular languages but about translations in general. Regards, Rafal [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_I18N_2017 <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_I18N_2017> _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans@lists.fedoraproject.org> To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org>
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Hello all,
I added a city, Stuttgart because their library always support and hosts open source and hacking/development meetings (alongside other subjects). I also added my FAS to my name and included myself for the workshop.
Kind regards, Silvia FAS: Lailah
On 5 May 2018 at 12:22, Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
On 2018/05/05 8:58, Silvia Sánchez wrote:
Hi all,
I can take the Beginners' Workshop. About locations, I only see Dresden. Am I missing something?
Haaaiiii Silvia!! Thanks for taking this workshop, please insert your name there. About location, we need to identify when and where the best, depending on the attendees preference and our plan. It is just one of the option, Dresden is. Please feel free to share your opinion and preference.
Hey all translators, Without your indication of the interest, we may not be able to proceed. You may have complete alternate/different idea than any of those. Please share your thoughts and indicate your interest.
noriko
Kind regards, Silvia FAS: Lailah
On 1 May 2018 at 21:01, Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak@lingonborough.com mailto:digitalfreak@lingonborough.com> wrote:
1.05.2018 06:06 Noriko Mizumoto <noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com <mailto:noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi all > As requested, the wiki page created. > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August> Thank you, Noriko! This is perfect. I have added several proposed locations and more locations are welcome if anybody wants to add. Also, a short explanation: I'd like to see the newcomers' workshop but I don't think it's the right thing for me to organize. I'll be happy to organize the other workshop. > [...] > Rafal, Pravin and Silvia > I am thinking that it would be nice if we can meet people from other > teams, such as i18n, dev team, web, hub, docs, Zanata, etc. > This will help them to understand Localization team, in same time we > will be able to obtain help and direct answers for questions we have. This is even a bigger dream to gather all people which should be involved. This sounds like a bigger event for me, like whole Flock. :-) > Could you kindly invite the other teams you are working closer? I will try to pass the message although the teams I am working with are sometimes beyond Fedora. > .....after I created the page......I noticed that I should have named it > g11n fad?!......while fltg seems stop working......please advise what is > the best naming.... I think that L10n FAD is a good and correct name. We had G11n FAD last year [1] hm... actually I18N FAD, and I was told many times that this was not the same thing as L10n FAD. We were not talking about translations, or if we were then not about particular languages but about translations in general. Regards, Rafal [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_I18N_2017 <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_I18N_2017> _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans@lists.fedoraproject.org> To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org>
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Hi Rafal
[...]
Rafal, Pravin and Silvia I am thinking that it would be nice if we can meet people from other teams, such as i18n, dev team, web, hub, docs, Zanata, etc. This will help them to understand Localization team, in same time we will be able to obtain help and direct answers for questions we have.
This is even a bigger dream to gather all people which should be involved. This sounds like a bigger event for me, like whole Flock. :-)
L10N FAD should be mainly the place to contribute l10n as well the place receive support about l10n. A translator may want to have questions, such as I want to understand the mechanism of an i18n process better, or I want to know the reason why my effort is not reflected in particular release, or I have the experience being asked to create a patch what to do, or I filed the bug but never be solved, and more. Some of senior translators may know the fact or have the answer, but it would be best to have an answer from a developer so that he/she notice our issue and take them back their team to share.
In this aspect, it is different from flock and a developer has no time to showcase their piece of art. This is best place for them to advertise their software in order to boost the localization percentage and quality for their software (community of practice).
Besides, Internationalization and Localization are totally different. Without i18n process, a software is not localizable. Besides, if no one from l10n team work for a software, it is no point that software to be i18n. I feel some or more developers misunderstand that Localization will automatically happen once they give internationalization process, aka all translators magically find their repo and give a translation whenever they want. Actually we sometime have been doing this, cz we are so smart. I hope my feeling is totally wrong.
Could you kindly invite the other teams you are working closer?
I will try to pass the message although the teams I am working with are sometimes beyond Fedora.
Thanks!
.....after I created the page......I noticed that I should have named it g11n fad?!......while fltg seems stop working......please advise what is the best naming....
I think that L10n FAD is a good and correct name. We had G11n FAD last year [1] hm... actually I18N FAD, and I was told many times that this was not the same thing as L10n FAD. We were not talking about translations, or if we were then not about particular languages but about translations in general.
Thank you, Rafal, for sharing your experience. True, let's leave it as l10n fad for now. I still like the idea to call it g11n fad, if more variety of topics come up.
I18n team focuses on i18n, so that one of closest team to us, and they can help l10n team in the i18n aspect. I learned a lot and received help from Akira, Parag, Jens, Pravin and many of i18n team. They are usually not translators. This can be said same with fltg and zanata teams. We work closely, and as the unity, we call g11n. I hope I do not misunderstand the concept.
noriko
Regards,
Rafal
6.05.2018 05:06 Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
L10N FAD should be mainly the place to contribute l10n as well the place receive support about l10n. A translator may want to have questions, such as I want to understand the mechanism of an i18n process better, [...]
I cut the rest of this paragraph because I just fully agree with this.
In this aspect, it is different from flock and a developer has no time to showcase their piece of art. This is best place for them to advertise their software in order to boost the localization percentage and quality for their software (community of practice).
My fear is that the developers may likely ignore the L10N event because they may think that this is only for translators. I mentioned Flock because it gathers everyone.
Besides, Internationalization and Localization are totally different. Without i18n process, a software is not localizable. Besides, if no one from l10n team work for a software, it is no point that software to be i18n.
Thank you for reminding this, Noriko. I think I understand the terms but sometimes I have a problem to actually apply this knowledge.
I feel some or more developers misunderstand that Localization will automatically happen once they give internationalization process, aka all translators magically find their repo and give a translation whenever they want. Actually we sometime have been doing this, cz we are so smart. I hope my feeling is totally wrong.
I strongly would like to gather and connect those two groups. Maybe even more than two, maybe also designers, doc writers?
[...] True, let's leave it as l10n fad for now. I still like the idea to call it g11n fad, if more variety of topics come up.
OK, thank you, I agree. I'll leave it to Jona and Pravin because I think they are the right people behind it.
Regards,
Rafal
Hi everyone,
Is there a way to Include Filipino in there?
Thanks,
Alvin
On 5/6/2018 11:06 AM, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
Hi Rafal
[...]
Rafal, Pravin and Silvia I am thinking that it would be nice if we can meet people from other teams, such as i18n, dev team, web, hub, docs, Zanata, etc. This will help them to understand Localization team, in same time we will be able to obtain help and direct answers for questions we have.
This is even a bigger dream to gather all people which should be involved. This sounds like a bigger event for me, like whole Flock. :-)
L10N FAD should be mainly the place to contribute l10n as well the place receive support about l10n. A translator may want to have questions, such as I want to understand the mechanism of an i18n process better, or I want to know the reason why my effort is not reflected in particular release, or I have the experience being asked to create a patch what to do, or I filed the bug but never be solved, and more. Some of senior translators may know the fact or have the answer, but it would be best to have an answer from a developer so that he/she notice our issue and take them back their team to share.
In this aspect, it is different from flock and a developer has no time to showcase their piece of art. This is best place for them to advertise their software in order to boost the localization percentage and quality for their software (community of practice).
Besides, Internationalization and Localization are totally different. Without i18n process, a software is not localizable. Besides, if no one from l10n team work for a software, it is no point that software to be i18n. I feel some or more developers misunderstand that Localization will automatically happen once they give internationalization process, aka all translators magically find their repo and give a translation whenever they want. Actually we sometime have been doing this, cz we are so smart. I hope my feeling is totally wrong.
Could you kindly invite the other teams you are working closer?
I will try to pass the message although the teams I am working with are sometimes beyond Fedora.
Thanks!
.....after I created the page......I noticed that I should have named it g11n fad?!......while fltg seems stop working......please advise what is the best naming....
I think that L10n FAD is a good and correct name. We had G11n FAD last year [1] hm... actually I18N FAD, and I was told many times that this was not the same thing as L10n FAD. We were not talking about translations, or if we were then not about particular languages but about translations in general.
Thank you, Rafal, for sharing your experience. True, let's leave it as l10n fad for now. I still like the idea to call it g11n fad, if more variety of topics come up.
I18n team focuses on i18n, so that one of closest team to us, and they can help l10n team in the i18n aspect. I learned a lot and received help from Akira, Parag, Jens, Pravin and many of i18n team. They are usually not translators. This can be said same with fltg and zanata teams. We work closely, and as the unity, we call g11n. I hope I do not misunderstand the concept.
noriko
Regards,
Rafal
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Hi Alvin,
18.06.2018 10:07 Alvin A abuke.ac@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone,
Is there a way to Include Filipino in there?
We don't list specific languages here because all languages are welcome. But I think that if you want Filipino language to be present then you must come because I don't think any of us will speak about your language.
However, as we have only 7 people interested (or 8, including you) this Localization Fedora Activity Day [1] will be a small event, probably part of Flock [2] or immediately before or after it. But indeed, you are still welcome.
Does it answer your question?
Regards,
Rafal
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Localization_FAD_2018_August [2] https://flocktofedora.org/
Hi Rafal & everyone,
The hotel is expensive because is a super expensive hotel. Normally accommodation in Germany is quite reasonable. Personally, I may attend FLOCK but I seriously doubt I will stay in that hotel as I can't pay such prices. But AFAIK, one can stay anywhere, is not mandatory to stay in the same hotel where the conference is. So... why putting a FAD 3 days before FLOCK starts will cost near zero? I didn't understand that part. If you plan to take a nap in a German train or bus, be careful, you may miss the stop. Unless Dresden has particularly bad services, German S-Bahn, U-Bahn, trams and buses are fast and smooth, you don't have much time for a nap except if you're reeeaaly faraway from your destination. On the other hand, they often announce the next stop on a speaker. I'd like to know a bit more about this because I'd like to participate too.
Kind regards, Silvia FAS: Lailah
On 30 April 2018 at 11:29, Rafal Luzynski digitalfreak@lingonborough.com wrote:
29.04.2018 03:31 Noriko Mizumoto noriko.mizumoto@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
- Attendees - we may need certain number of attendees to have a fad. Too
few attendees may not work, I guess.
I suggest people to reply here if they would like to attend or maybe when we create a wiki page they will be able just to add their names to avoid the noise here.
- Date - selection: immediately before or after, or 11-Aug
- Location - selection: the place able to move by bus, or Dresden
Almost every place is accessible by bus and also please include a train.
What about this brainstorming idea:
Flock starts on August 8. Let's organize FAD on August 6 and 7 (Monday and Tuesday), whole days, with people arriving on Sunday, Aug 5 evening and leaving Wednesday, August 8 early in the morning.
The event should be funded by Fedora and the cost will be near zero. Here is why: Flock starts on August 8 in the morning. People will likely arrive on August 7 evening. The hotel in Dresden is rather expensive, like everywhere in Germany and in whole western Europe, the cost is 100 € per night, if I understand correctly. If we promise to arrive on August 8 in the morning then we save money for one night and this is sufficient to spend 2-6 nights in a hotel in Poland or in any other cheap location. Maybe I'm little hyperbolizing and this calculation does not include the travel cost. A single journey train ticket costs 20 € and discounts are available (e.g., for a group travel), also likely we'll find a cheaper transport, like a bus. We need about 2-4 hours to arrive which means we'll have to leave like 4 AM or 6 AM. Shall we be tired? Yes but you can have a little nap on bus or a train, also you will be tired if you spend 10 or 20 hours on the plane instead.
Location: please reuse this proposal: https://pagure.io/flock/issue/2 and also I'd like to suggest this mountain resort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrna_G%C3%B3ra,_Lower_ Silesian_Voivodeship or we can have hundreds of other locations. The locations from Czech Republic and Germany are also welcome, I just cannot suggest anything specific.
- Fund - can we support attendees to reach this fad?
Hopefully, see above.
- Topics - "how to improve localization" by Jean-Baptiste, feel free to
add more.
I think I'd like to see the translators moving their tasks forward, onboarding newcomers, identifying and fixing the problems, like common mistakes or software bugs making the translation difficult or impossible, exchanging their experiences. So, like a motto of Flock 2017: more "do" than "talk".
- Organizers - Rafal (noriko)
PING Pravin, you successfully organized fad in Tokyo. Now would you like to help us here again?
Thank you Noriko and Pravin for joining as organizers.
Regards,
Rafal _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Alex Eng -
Alvin A -
Jean-Baptiste Holcroft -
Jona Azizaj -
Noriko Mizumoto -
pravin.d.s＠gmail.com -
Rafal Luzynski -
Silvia Sánchez