On Mon, May 25, 2020, 19:35 S.Kemter <sirko.kemter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
of course you contacted 9 mentors out of 7 available.
I mailed several of the listed people on the wiki and several other people
recommended by my team who had been mentored by them previously on their
journey to being an ambassador. Not all were EMEA based. 1 replied. 1
bounced on the listed mail. The rest I didn't get a response from.
Its not naming and shaming, its just figuring out where the failure in the
system is. As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you
can
explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the
requirements?
I didn't state I got far enough to become a full fledged ambassador. I
talked about the mentoring outreach.
I can not find you email
> And to your active and inactive thing who decides what active and what
> inactive is?
The community as a whole, hence the ticket for discussion.
> You?
My only thought or opinion there is shared in the ticket. I honestly don't
care how its decided but it would be good if future ambassadors going
through the mentoring aspect knew who to reach out to and it allows people
step back.
We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just
> active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
I'm exclusively talking about the path to the ambassador program for
getting new ambassadors in. That's the active or inactive part I am focused
on as it's the only experience I have had with the program and
unfortunately it's a negative one and with constructive feedback it might
help the program move forward. How do you suggest the mentoring to gain
access to the program should be carried out? I'd love to get your thoughts
on it.
> There is an activity control in place depending on the FAS
everything else
> is nonsense, I explained that once to Matt and Bex. For some successful
> events I working here a year or even more and it takes a lot of time
> because of the local problems. And I will not report each mail I wrote,
> each call I made, each meeting I had so you cant see how much work I do. So
> how you decide what is an active and who is inactive
I'm sure we could look at marking activities to know when someone is
available. That's really all the indication is for. I'm available to
mentor. I'm available to help out. I'm engaged on local work. I'm too busy
with life right now. This suggestion isn't a stick to beat anyone with.
Imagine this from a prospective Ambassadors perspective. They are excited
to play their part, they reach out to engage and they are met with silence.
How is that for an experience? That's what I'd like to solve as I have
several people I want to direct towards this and me going on that journey
was to help inform them.
> Am
Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 00:45 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin <
> lgriffin(a)redhat.com>:
>
>
>>
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 17:10 S.Kemter <sirko.kemter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Hi,
>>
>>> First as said there
been shortages and the amount of mentors and an
>>> oversight of applicants been one. But you mix up here some things an
>>> Ambassador has nothing to do with a mentor, except he needs one to become
>>> it.
>>
>
>>
That's the exact step I needed, the mentorship to become an Ambassador.
>
>> To be honest I dont believe you contacted 8 different
mentors.
>>
>
>>
Apologies I checked my sent items it was 9.
>
>>
>>> There are huge difference between the regions and Europe is been the
>>> region who had no problems with the amount nor the activity of their
>>> mentors. So please name the names of the mentors
>>
>
>>
Naming and shaming volunteers for not responding to an email goes against
>> the spirit of the Community and I see no benefit or merit in
>> disenfranchising volunteers
>
>>
>>> If you not do I put you in the same bucket where I putted the people
who
>>> made this changes in, as you want "a complete overhaul of the
programme"
>>
>
>>
I never said that but it's your bucket to place people wherever you want,
>> but by doing so you are creating a broad classification that isn't a
>> constructive means to debate a path forward for a program you clearly have
>> a passion for.
>> If you check my comment on the feedback ticket I'm only requesting a
>> means to identify Active Vs inactive Ambassadors.
>
>> I getting sick of complete overhauls because one thing
in their
>>> experience didnt work and its not even sure its mentors fault or yours
>>> contacting ambassadors.
>>
>>> The fun is How to
become an ambassador is well documented, I can show
>>> you parts of the project who really would need an overhaul.
>>
>
>>
Please share your feedback and if my team are able to help I'd be happy
>> for them to consider it.
>
>> You make here proposals who are already in place.
>>
>
>>
I don't feel that my proposal is in place and going on the feedback
>> ticket it seems I'm not alone. Please don't confuse my very narrow view
of
>> the request with a broad statement of wider change. I'm not saying or
>> suggesting that.
>
>>
>>> br gnokii
>>
>>
>>
>>> Am Mo., 25. Mai 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin <
>>> lgriffin(a)redhat.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter
<sirko.kemter(a)gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>> It's time
to say something to this. The ambassador program was
>>>>> sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The
people
>>>>> who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get
their
>>>>> own problems solved.
>>>>
>>>>> The ambassador
program was once written with quality in mind that this
>>>>> was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the
totally
>>>>> openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it
still
>>>>> that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
>>>>
>>>>> The idea behind
the mentoring and therefore a selection for the
>>>>> quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing
which
>>>>> could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in
past
>>>>> FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they
not
>>>>> been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all
there.
>>>>
>>>>> It goes further
for making the comment that I find that someone hasnt
>>>>> the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a
month.
>>>>> I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for
>>>>> while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story
not
>>>>> just what suits her/his needs
>>>>
>>>>> What you expect
from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and
>>>>> says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice
we
>>>>> keep all logs so its provable.
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't know the history here and
don't want to get drawn into politics
>>>> that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my experience of the
>>>> Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as the CPE
>>>> Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I
>>>> know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go
>>>> through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented
steps
>>>> to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of 6
>>>> months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were
both
>>>> too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some of
>>>> the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or so
to
>>>> join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I have
>>>> plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my day
job
>>>> but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the
>>>> program works and how we are trying to attract people into the
Community.
>>>> It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall program
needs
>>>> an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive or
>>>> unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be
able
>>>> to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers figure
out
>>>> who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why
because there
>>>>> been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault
>>>>
>>>>> When I have the
opinion something should be changed, then I look first
>>>>> what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to
>>>>> understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make
sense
>>>>> then.
>>>>
>>>>> But nothing
like was done.
>>>>
>>>>> There been
addressed problems which never been problems at all
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> br gnokii
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Justin W. Flory (he/him)
<jflory7(a)gmail.com> schrieb am So., 24. Mai
>>>>> 2020, 00:09:
>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
Onyeibo,
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/23/20
4:46 AM, onyeibo(a)schemefusion.com wrote:
>>>>>> > First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador
Programme
>>>>>> then the
>>>>>> > Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be
helpful
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> > find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor
programme.
>>>>>
>>>>>> In the
2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events.
>>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>>> mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Today, the
Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can
>>>>>> provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an
Advocate.
>>>>>> They
>>>>>> also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager.
The
>>>>>> Join SIG might also point someone to translation or
localization.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So,
Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It
was meant
>>>>>> to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute
to
>>>>>> Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> > I tend to think being an
Ambassador is much more than the mentoring
>>>>>> > process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or
after
>>>>>> you Join.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> > How is the Join SIG managing the
following?:
>>>>>> > 1. Event Planning
>>>>>> > 2. Fedora Representation in Events
>>>>>> > 3. Event Reporting
>>>>>> > 4. Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
>>>>>
>>>>>> Join SIG
does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare
>>>>>> Committee manages (at least since 2018).
>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to
call out two things:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Fedora
Advocates
>>>>>> 2. Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
>>>>>
>>>>>> First: In
the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve
>>>>>> event
>>>>>> organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program,
managed
>>>>>> by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks
who
>>>>>> use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the
word out:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
>>>>>
>>>>>> Second:
Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital
>>>>>> Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still
under discussion but I
>>>>>> encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
>>>>>
>>>>>> I like this
path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Justin W. Flory (he/him)
>>>>>> jwf.io
>>>>>> TZ=America/New_York
>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> List Archives:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
_______________________________________________
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>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
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>>>>> Fedora Code of Conduct:
>>>>>
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>>>>> List Guidelines:
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> --
>>>
>>>> Leigh Griffin
>>>
>>>> Engineering
Manager
>>>
>>>> Red Hat Waterford
<
https://www.redhat.com/
>>>
>>>> Communications House
>>>
>>>> Cork Road,
Waterford City
>>>
>>>>
lgriffin(a)redhat.com
>>>> M: +353877545162 IM: lgriffin
>>>> @redhatjobs <
https://twitter.com/redhatjobs> redhatjobs
>>>> <
https://www.facebook.com/redhatjobs> @redhatjobs
>>>> <
https://instagram.com/redhatjobs
>>>> <
https://red.ht/sig
>>>
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> make me rich, buy my Inkscape book
http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)
>>
>
> --
> make me rich, buy my Inkscape book
http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)