Hey, folks. So I've been doing some preliminary thinking about testing GNOME 3 for F15; obviously it's one of the most significant and potentially disruptive changes.
My preliminary idea is that there are possibly two different areas to cover with test days: the Shell, and everything else. I think we can focus on the Shell as one topic, and then on testing other apps in the GNOME 3 environment as another; running them and making sure they work and all expected operations are possible and covering potential issues with GTK 3 and gsettings and so on.
We could (and probably should) run multiple test days on each topic; maybe two or three for each.
What does everyone think of this as a general plan? When do you think it would be best to start up with Test Days? My feeling with Rawhide right now is that's probably too messy to get useful feedback from Test Days yet; maybe shortly post-Alpha would be a good time to start up. But you might have better ideas of when things should be present in at least basically-working form. Thanks!
On 11/26/2010 08:49 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Hey, folks. So I've been doing some preliminary thinking about testing GNOME 3 for F15; obviously it's one of the most significant and potentially disruptive changes.
My preliminary idea is that there are possibly two different areas to cover with test days: the Shell, and everything else. I think we can focus on the Shell as one topic, and then on testing other apps in the GNOME 3 environment as another; running them and making sure they work and all expected operations are possible and covering potential issues with GTK 3 and gsettings and so on.
We could (and probably should) run multiple test days on each topic; maybe two or three for each.
What does everyone think of this as a general plan? When do you think it would be best to start up with Test Days? My feeling with Rawhide right now is that's probably too messy to get useful feedback from Test Days yet; maybe shortly post-Alpha would be a good time to start up. But you might have better ideas of when things should be present in at least basically-working form. Thanks!
Are the graphics drivers ( ati nouveaou intel ) ready for gnome-shell?
If so is not best to wait until after alpha to test it?
JBG
On Fri, 2010-11-26 at 20:55 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
Are the graphics drivers ( ati nouveaou intel ) ready for gnome-shell?
If so is not best to wait until after alpha to test it?
They're probably working enough to make testing feasible, but I don't think we have comprehensive data. I know it doesn't work on my desktop, whereas it did in F14. I've poked Ben about this a bit, but not much yet.
On Fri, 2010-11-26 at 12:49 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
Hey, folks. So I've been doing some preliminary thinking about testing GNOME 3 for F15; obviously it's one of the most significant and potentially disruptive changes.
My preliminary idea is that there are possibly two different areas to cover with test days: the Shell, and everything else. I think we can focus on the Shell as one topic, and then on testing other apps in the GNOME 3 environment as another; running them and making sure they work and all expected operations are possible and covering potential issues with GTK 3 and gsettings and so on.
We could (and probably should) run multiple test days on each topic; maybe two or three for each.
What does everyone think of this as a general plan? When do you think it would be best to start up with Test Days? My feeling with Rawhide right now is that's probably too messy to get useful feedback from Test Days yet; maybe shortly post-Alpha would be a good time to start up. But you might have better ideas of when things should be present in at least basically-working form. Thanks!
One thing I talked about with the graphics team was moving up the graphics tests days and concentrating on the composited GNOME 3 experience for them.
- Owen
On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 22:38 -0500, Owen Taylor wrote:
One thing I talked about with the graphics team was moving up the graphics tests days and concentrating on the composited GNOME 3 experience for them.
yeah, that's certainly one element we should cover; I was already planning to add that to the tests for the X days. you're right that it would probably be good to move them a bit earlier too.
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:49:25PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
Hey, folks. So I've been doing some preliminary thinking about testing GNOME 3 for F15; obviously it's one of the most significant and potentially disruptive changes.
My preliminary idea is that there are possibly two different areas to cover with test days: the Shell, and everything else. I think we can focus on the Shell as one topic, and then on testing other apps in the GNOME 3 environment as another; running them and making sure they work and all expected operations are possible and covering potential issues with GTK 3 and gsettings and so on.
We could (and probably should) run multiple test days on each topic; maybe two or three for each.
What does everyone think of this as a general plan? When do you think it would be best to start up with Test Days? My feeling with Rawhide right now is that's probably too messy to get useful feedback from Test Days yet; maybe shortly post-Alpha would be a good time to start up. But you might have better ideas of when things should be present in at least basically-working form. Thanks! -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net
This might be a horrible noob question since I've been out of the loop for almost all of the F14 cycle and I'm just trying to get back up to speed so I can help with F15, but is there a "failsafe" for gnome3 that will allow the shell to revert to a 2D interface in the event of a graphics card that can't do compositing?
-AdamM
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Adam Miller maxamillion@fedoraproject.org wrote:
This might be a horrible noob question since I've been out of the loop for almost all of the F14 cycle and I'm just trying to get back up to speed so I can help with F15, but is there a "failsafe" for gnome3 that will allow the shell to revert to a 2D interface in the event of a graphics card that can't do compositing?
Yes there will be a fallback for drivers that do not support accelerated 3D.
On 1 December 2010 15:25, Adam Miller maxamillion@fedoraproject.org wrote:
This might be a horrible noob question since I've been out of the loop for almost all of the F14 cycle and I'm just trying to get back up to speed so I can help with F15, but is there a "failsafe" for gnome3 that will allow the shell to revert to a 2D interface in the event of a graphics card that can't do compositing?
Not sure how current this still is, but:
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/Fallback
Rui
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 15:31 +0000, Rui Tiago Cação Matos wrote:
On 1 December 2010 15:25, Adam Miller maxamillion@fedoraproject.org wrote:
This might be a horrible noob question since I've been out of the loop for almost all of the F14 cycle and I'm just trying to get back up to speed so I can help with F15, but is there a "failsafe" for gnome3 that will allow the shell to revert to a 2D interface in the event of a graphics card that can't do compositing?
Not sure how current this still is, but:
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/Fallback
Rui
Is Gnome 3 and the Shell both in rawhide currently and can be tested already or is there more work to do before ready for evaluating (or at least enough to not crash every 2 secs)?
Mike Chambers
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 09:47 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 15:31 +0000, Rui Tiago Cação Matos wrote:
On 1 December 2010 15:25, Adam Miller maxamillion@fedoraproject.org wrote:
This might be a horrible noob question since I've been out of the loop for almost all of the F14 cycle and I'm just trying to get back up to speed so I can help with F15, but is there a "failsafe" for gnome3 that will allow the shell to revert to a 2D interface in the event of a graphics card that can't do compositing?
Not sure how current this still is, but:
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/Fallback
Rui
Is Gnome 3 and the Shell both in rawhide currently and can be tested already or is there more work to do before ready for evaluating (or at least enough to not crash every 2 secs)?
I know it's working usably for at least one person (hno on IRC) with an Intel card. For me, on an NVIDIA 9400 GT, it basically hangs when run (won't take any input once a window is drawn); Ben Skeggs has the same card in one of his test machines and is looking at it. Don't have any data past that - I've been kind of assuming a few people are using it and it works, but not on the basis of any particular evidence :)
it still has a lot of raw edges. GTK+3 apps, at present, seem to be very uglily (is that a word?) themed, for some reason - some all-grey theme that looks like it came from a 1996 Solaris machine or something - and there's lots of other sharp edges.
Adam Williamson (awilliam@redhat.com) said:
it still has a lot of raw edges. GTK+3 apps, at present, seem to be very uglily (is that a word?) themed, for some reason - some all-grey theme that looks like it came from a 1996 Solaris machine or something - and there's lots of other sharp edges.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=658605
Bill
Bill Nottingham (notting@redhat.com) said:
Adam Williamson (awilliam@redhat.com) said:
it still has a lot of raw edges. GTK+3 apps, at present, seem to be very uglily (is that a word?) themed, for some reason - some all-grey theme that looks like it came from a 1996 Solaris machine or something - and there's lots of other sharp edges.
And running "gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theme 'Adwaita'" should give you something better.
Bill
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 15:09 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Bill Nottingham (notting@redhat.com) said:
Adam Williamson (awilliam@redhat.com) said:
it still has a lot of raw edges. GTK+3 apps, at present, seem to be very uglily (is that a word?) themed, for some reason - some all-grey theme that looks like it came from a 1996 Solaris machine or something - and there's lots of other sharp edges.
And running "gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theme 'Adwaita'" should give you something better.
actually, it just made all my GTK+2 apps use the same ugly grey theme. :P I think there's a problem with Adwaita in current Rawhide (well, yesterday's rawhide, haven't yet updated to today's Rawhide because of the X driver mess).
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 15:09 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Bill Nottingham (notting@redhat.com) said:
Adam Williamson (awilliam@redhat.com) said:
it still has a lot of raw edges. GTK+3 apps, at present, seem to be very uglily (is that a word?) themed, for some reason - some all-grey theme that looks like it came from a 1996 Solaris machine or something - and there's lots of other sharp edges.
And running "gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theme 'Adwaita'" should give you something better.
okay, so now I got this to work, can I complain that adwaita is really pretty ugly? :)
the dark grey gradient on toolbars really doesn't look nice, especially with toolbar icons disabled. There seems to be rather too much padding space on the edges of tabs and toolbars, it looks 'fat'. I can see the idea behind having the default / selected-by-tab button in dialogs go bright blue, it's more visible than a faint outline, but it looks really pretty ugly to me. Greyed out text on toolbars is barely visible. I also don't like the very subtle indication of which window is focused; focused windows look like unfocused windows did in clearlooks, it's pretty jarring. I guess you might get used to it after a while. I do like the scrollbars, they're nice.
honestly it looks a hell of a lot worse than clearlooks, so far, to me. Didn't clearlooks change from a really aggressive blue color for selections and scrollbars to the much subtler blue it has now after people complained? Why go back to a really aggressive blue for adwaita, then?
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 15:04 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 15:09 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Bill Nottingham (notting@redhat.com) said:
Adam Williamson (awilliam@redhat.com) said:
it still has a lot of raw edges. GTK+3 apps, at present, seem to be very uglily (is that a word?) themed, for some reason - some all-grey theme that looks like it came from a 1996 Solaris machine or something - and there's lots of other sharp edges.
And running "gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theme 'Adwaita'" should give you something better.
okay, so now I got this to work, can I complain that adwaita is really pretty ugly? :)
the dark grey gradient on toolbars really doesn't look nice, especially with toolbar icons disabled. There seems to be rather too much padding space on the edges of tabs and toolbars, it looks 'fat'. I can see the idea behind having the default / selected-by-tab button in dialogs go bright blue, it's more visible than a faint outline, but it looks really pretty ugly to me. Greyed out text on toolbars is barely visible. I also don't like the very subtle indication of which window is focused; focused windows look like unfocused windows did in clearlooks, it's pretty jarring. I guess you might get used to it after a while. I do like the scrollbars, they're nice.
honestly it looks a hell of a lot worse than clearlooks, so far, to me. Didn't clearlooks change from a really aggressive blue color for selections and scrollbars to the much subtler blue it has now after people complained? Why go back to a really aggressive blue for adwaita, then?
I like it better than clearlooks myself.
In any case, file bugs upstream if you don't like it.
On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 13:03 +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:
honestly it looks a hell of a lot worse than clearlooks, so far, to me. Didn't clearlooks change from a really aggressive blue color for selections and scrollbars to the much subtler blue it has now after people complained? Why go back to a really aggressive blue for adwaita, then?
I like it better than clearlooks myself.
In any case, file bugs upstream if you don't like it.
overall it's kinda growing on me, but I think most of the individual complaints I had are still kinda valid. okay, I'll go upstream with it. maybe if I can come up with suggested changes rather than just 'this sucks', though.
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:49:46 -0800, you wrote:
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 09:47 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
Is Gnome 3 and the Shell both in rawhide currently and can be tested already or is there more work to do before ready for evaluating (or at least enough to not crash every 2 secs)?
I know it's working usably for at least one person (hno on IRC) with an Intel card. For me, on an NVIDIA 9400 GT, it basically hangs when run (won't take any input once a window is drawn); Ben Skeggs has the same
I had a similar problem with an NVIDIA 8400GS that went away with the current nouveau and mesa updates.
Currently Shell works fine and appears stable for the limited try I gave it.
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 17:16 -0500, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:49:46 -0800, you wrote:
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 09:47 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
Is Gnome 3 and the Shell both in rawhide currently and can be tested already or is there more work to do before ready for evaluating (or at least enough to not crash every 2 secs)?
I know it's working usably for at least one person (hno on IRC) with an Intel card. For me, on an NVIDIA 9400 GT, it basically hangs when run (won't take any input once a window is drawn); Ben Skeggs has the same
I had a similar problem with an NVIDIA 8400GS that went away with the current nouveau and mesa updates.
by 'current', which version exactly?
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 17:16 -0500, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:49:46 -0800, you wrote:
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 09:47 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
Is Gnome 3 and the Shell both in rawhide currently and can be tested already or is there more work to do before ready for evaluating (or at least enough to not crash every 2 secs)?
I know it's working usably for at least one person (hno on IRC) with an Intel card. For me, on an NVIDIA 9400 GT, it basically hangs when run (won't take any input once a window is drawn); Ben Skeggs has the same
I had a similar problem with an NVIDIA 8400GS that went away with the current nouveau and mesa updates.
Currently Shell works fine and appears stable for the limited try I gave it.
Hmm, it just started working for me too, with today's Rawhide updates, fixing the GTK+ theme stuff, nouveau xorg-x11-drv-nouveau-0.0.16-13.20101129gitf29afe6.fc15.x86_64 , and a 2.6.37 kernel I'm testing for kylem...now ben's trying to figure out what fixed it :)
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