On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 20:45 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 14:21 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
> >> On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 09:00 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 20:26 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
> >> > > On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 16:10 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> >> > > > On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 10:25 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
> >> > > > > On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 14:12 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> >> > > > > > > I don't really like that people that do
upgrades get a worse
> >> > > > > > > experience because of that pointless change
but well ...
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > There's nothing that says a user doing an
upgrade wants to upgrade to
> >> > > > > > Workstation. There's also nothing that is
going to magically upgrade
> >> > > > > > them to Workstation anyway. Also, they don't
have this in F20 so
> >> > > > > > their experience is not worse, it's the same.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I think fedup needs to to require specification of the
product when
> >> > > > > upgrading from Fedora 20:
> >> > > > > [...]
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I've been trying to work with the packaging folks and the
fedup
> >> > > > maintainer, but right now it's looking infeasible to do
a
> >> > > > non-productized (F20) upgrade to a Productized F21. People
who want
> >> > > > Workstation are going to have to do a clean install. People
upgrading
> >> > > > from F20 will end up with non-productized F21 (equivalent
> >> > > > to a Spin).
> >> > >
> >> > > In the Fedora Workstation PRD we have:
> >> > >
> >> > > Robust Upgrades
> >> > >
> >> > > Upgrading the system multiple times through the upgrade process
should
> >> > > give a result that is the same as an original install of Fedora
> >> > > Workstation. Upgrade should be a safe and process that never
leaves the
> >> > > system needing manual intervention.
> >> > >
> >> > > This refers, of course, to upgrades between versions of Fedora
> >> > > Workstation, but I think we're sending a strong message in the
wrong
> >> > > direction if we make it require a complex manual procedure to
upgrade
> >> > > from F20 to F21 Workstation.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Well, the procedure isn't necessarily *complex*, but it *is*
necessarily
> >> > manual. Please see my email on devel@, I talked about the actual
> >> > technical issues that are getting in the way here (and the fact that
> >> > we're dangerously close to Beta for trying to land entirely new
code in
> >> > fedup...)
> >>
> >> There's three separate things here:
> >>
> >> * We need to make it almost impossible to *accidentally* upgrade to
> >> non-productized F21 and think you are getting the Workstation
> >> experience.
> >>
> >
> > I think this is the wrong way of thinking about this. As noted elsewhere
> > in this or the other thread, we *cannot* make the assumption that
> > someone upgrading from F20 actually *wants* it to be Fedora Workstation,
> > even if they happen to have the GNOME desktop installed.
> >
> > There are plenty of people who are using a system installed from one of
> > the spins as well as people who are using Fedora as a server (possibly
> > headless) and having the upgrade process result in Workstation except
> > when *explicitly* chosen is not acceptable.
> >
> >
> >> * We need to provide a feasible way to upgrade from F20
> >> Fedora 21 Workstation.
> >>
> >
> > I would certainly be in favor of having this. The definition of
> > "feasible" is very complicated, though. This can be solved, but
it's
> > debatable if it can be solved sensibly in the remaining time. (See the
> > explanations in the other thread).
>
> Why from the chatlog you attached elsewhere one would conclude that
> the "yum install fedora-relase-foo && fedup" would work. Or what
did I
> miss?
You missed the part where that approach takes away the no-manual-steps
part of it. If we go that path, then you MUST explicitly do 'yum install
fedora-release-[standard|workstation|cloud|server]' before you can run
fedup.
If people feel that this is an acceptable approach, we can investigate
it, but the general sense I was getting is that "fedup --network 21"
should work on its own with no other interaction.
Well "fedup --network 21" could simply check if any of those packages
is present and if not print a message. Shouldn't this be that big of a
change.