On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 20:45 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Stephen Gallagher
<sgallagh(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 14:21 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
>> On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 09:00 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>> > On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 20:26 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
>> > > On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 16:10 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>> > > > On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 10:25 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
>> > > > > On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 14:12 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
>> > > > > > > I don't really like that people that do
upgrades get a worse
>> > > > > > > experience because of that pointless change but
well ...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > There's nothing that says a user doing an upgrade
wants to upgrade to
>> > > > > > Workstation. There's also nothing that is going to
magically upgrade
>> > > > > > them to Workstation anyway. Also, they don't have
this in F20 so
>> > > > > > their experience is not worse, it's the same.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I think fedup needs to to require specification of the
product when
>> > > > > upgrading from Fedora 20:
>> > > > > [...]
>> > > >
>> > > > I've been trying to work with the packaging folks and the
fedup
>> > > > maintainer, but right now it's looking infeasible to do a
>> > > > non-productized (F20) upgrade to a Productized F21. People who
want
>> > > > Workstation are going to have to do a clean install. People
upgrading
>> > > > from F20 will end up with non-productized F21 (equivalent
>> > > > to a Spin).
>> > >
>> > > In the Fedora Workstation PRD we have:
>> > >
>> > > Robust Upgrades
>> > >
>> > > Upgrading the system multiple times through the upgrade process
should
>> > > give a result that is the same as an original install of Fedora
>> > > Workstation. Upgrade should be a safe and process that never leaves
the
>> > > system needing manual intervention.
>> > >
>> > > This refers, of course, to upgrades between versions of Fedora
>> > > Workstation, but I think we're sending a strong message in the
wrong
>> > > direction if we make it require a complex manual procedure to upgrade
>> > > from F20 to F21 Workstation.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Well, the procedure isn't necessarily *complex*, but it *is*
necessarily
>> > manual. Please see my email on devel@, I talked about the actual
>> > technical issues that are getting in the way here (and the fact that
>> > we're dangerously close to Beta for trying to land entirely new code
in
>> > fedup...)
>>
>> There's three separate things here:
>>
>> * We need to make it almost impossible to *accidentally* upgrade to
>> non-productized F21 and think you are getting the Workstation
>> experience.
>>
>
> I think this is the wrong way of thinking about this. As noted elsewhere
> in this or the other thread, we *cannot* make the assumption that
> someone upgrading from F20 actually *wants* it to be Fedora Workstation,
> even if they happen to have the GNOME desktop installed.
>
> There are plenty of people who are using a system installed from one of
> the spins as well as people who are using Fedora as a server (possibly
> headless) and having the upgrade process result in Workstation except
> when *explicitly* chosen is not acceptable.
>
>
>> * We need to provide a feasible way to upgrade from F20
>> Fedora 21 Workstation.
>>
>
> I would certainly be in favor of having this. The definition of
> "feasible" is very complicated, though. This can be solved, but it's
> debatable if it can be solved sensibly in the remaining time. (See the
> explanations in the other thread).
Why from the chatlog you attached elsewhere one would conclude that
the "yum install fedora-relase-foo && fedup" would work. Or what did I
miss?
You missed the part where that approach takes away the no-manual-steps
part of it. If we go that path, then you MUST explicitly do 'yum install
fedora-release-[standard|workstation|cloud|server]' before you can run
fedup.
If people feel that this is an acceptable approach, we can investigate
it, but the general sense I was getting is that "fedup --network 21"
should work on its own with no other interaction. If we can relax that
requirement, this is a viable approach.