To the developers,
The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women (I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it.
With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the pack' in this area.
This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need to download or purchase them after installing the OS.
Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as possible.
Thank you,
Chris
________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:58 +0000, chapmanccc@juno.com wrote:
To the developers,
The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women (I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it.
With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the pack' in this area.
This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need to download or purchase them after installing the OS.
Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as possible.
I agree, We should have more professional behavior. And since most professionals are adults and know that world is filled with all sorts of things that _you_ may not like but that others may, I think we should respect the differences between people and let adults choose what behavior of their screensavers they want. Therefore, I recommend screensaver preferences! In EVERY DESKTOP! The ability to choose a screensaver must be included in the distribution to put a stop to this anti-professional degradation.
oh.. wait.. they're already there.
hmm.
-sv
Hi Chris,
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:58, chapmanccc@juno.com wrote:
To the developers,
The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women (I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it.
With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the pack' in this area.
This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need to download or purchase them after installing the OS.
I think Ray has recently done work to put some of the screensavers into a package which isn't installed by default. I agree that it might be worthwhile to put some of the more geeky screensavers into that package.
Its always going to be a tough call to decide which ones should be installed by default and which ones shouldn't, but logging a bug bugzilla.redhat.com/xscreensaver with your suggestions for which ones shouldn't be installed by default (with a rationale for each suggestion).
Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as possible.
Thanks for the advice. I'll start acting more professional tomorrow.
Cheers, Mark.
On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 02:58:31PM +0000, chapmanccc@juno.com wrote:
This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not
WebCollage doesn't have any content. It gets it from this thing called "the Internet". If you look at its documentation, it even tells you that. What's more, it's there but not enabled by default.
I'm not sure what particular word has offended you in Barcode, but it's basically picking from a random dictionary. And, if you look at the source RPM, you'll find a patch which removes several words referring to parts of the human body some people find embarrassing. I looked at the remaining list, and am perplexed as to what you are offended by. "Gerbils", perhaps?
On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 10:34:40AM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
I'm not sure what particular word has offended you in Barcode, but it's basically picking from a random dictionary. And, if you look at the source RPM, you'll find a patch which removes several words referring to parts of the human body some people find embarrassing. I looked at the remaining list, and am perplexed as to what you are offended by. "Gerbils", perhaps?
At OLS last year (I think during Erik Troan's talk on conary), whilst taking questions, barcode kicked in. On a ~10ft projector, with the word 'flatulence'.
Unfortunate and somewhat embarressing perhaps, but highly amusing.
The choice of words barcode uses do seem to be of this nature a lot of the time, so I can sort of see the OPs point.
Dave
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 10:49 -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 10:34:40AM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
I'm not sure what particular word has offended you in Barcode, but it's basically picking from a random dictionary. And, if you look at the source RPM, you'll find a patch which removes several words referring to parts of the human body some people find embarrassing. I looked at the remaining list, and am perplexed as to what you are offended by. "Gerbils", perhaps?
At OLS last year (I think during Erik Troan's talk on conary), whilst taking questions, barcode kicked in. On a ~10ft projector, with the word 'flatulence'.
Unfortunate and somewhat embarressing perhaps, but highly amusing.
The choice of words barcode uses do seem to be of this nature a lot of the time, so I can sort of see the OPs point.
i can see the point of splitting up the xscreensaver package into more sets or making it easier to prohibit users from getting to certain ones, but I think at some point it just becomes silly censorship b/c some people are afraid of seeing a naughty bit or hearing a dirty word.
I'm all for professionalism but I'm MORE for acting like an adult and realizing the world isn't all roses and tea. -sv
tor, 11.11.2004 kl. 16.08 skrev seth vidal:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:58 +0000, chapmanccc@juno.com wrote:
To the developers,
The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women (I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it.
With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the pack' in this area.
This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need to download or purchase them after installing the OS.
Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as possible.
I agree, We should have more professional behavior. And since most professionals are adults and know that world is filled with all sorts of things that _you_ may not like but that others may, I think we should respect the differences between people and let adults choose what behavior of their screensavers they want. Therefore, I recommend screensaver preferences! In EVERY DESKTOP! The ability to choose a screensaver must be included in the distribution to put a stop to this anti-professional degradation.
oh.. wait.. they're already there.
hmm.
-sv
Yes they are. But imagine removing those on every damn user profile in... lets say a school.
What really should be done, is split the screensaverpackage in three rpms (at least) - "xscreensaver-safe", "xcsreensaver-gl", and "xscreensaver-others". At least the two first should be installed by default. The reason to split it, is that the gl package can then be removed safely from systems where it is not wanted. Simply beckause they suck CPU, and on non-hw-3d deployments, you migth not want them.
On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 10:49:59AM -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
At OLS last year (I think during Erik Troan's talk on conary), whilst taking questions, barcode kicked in. On a ~10ft projector, with the word 'flatulence'.
That's one of the words that's patched out, actually.
Hmm; on looking, the "sanitize-hacks" patch wasn't in FC2; it's new to FC3. Perhaps right after the incident you mention. :)
Professionalism in linux is definitely a nice thing, but if you want it, go out and get a copy of enterprise Linux. In Fedora, it's all about the bleeding edge technology and newest ideas from the community, and being "professional" limits that quite a bit. At least in fedora ther'es the freedom for the creative things like the "unprofessional" barcode and flying toasters screensavers. That's what it's all about, the freedom to add any ideas; and that's why Fedora isn't "professional"
"I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why?"
Because this is Linux. Linux is meant to be that quirky OS that releives the boredom of stock operating systems like windows. If you want to be professional, use RHEL. But in Fedora, we strive to endorse new ideas, regardless of their "professionality"
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:08:39 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak kyrre@solution-forge.net wrote:
tor, 11.11.2004 kl. 16.08 skrev seth vidal:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:58 +0000, chapmanccc@juno.com wrote:
To the developers,
The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women (I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it.
With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the pack' in this area.
This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need to download or purchase them after installing the OS.
Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as possible.
I agree, We should have more professional behavior. And since most professionals are adults and know that world is filled with all sorts of things that _you_ may not like but that others may, I think we should respect the differences between people and let adults choose what behavior of their screensavers they want. Therefore, I recommend screensaver preferences! In EVERY DESKTOP! The ability to choose a screensaver must be included in the distribution to put a stop to this anti-professional degradation.
oh.. wait.. they're already there.
hmm.
-sv
Yes they are. But imagine removing those on every damn user profile in... lets say a school.
What really should be done, is split the screensaverpackage in three rpms (at least) - "xscreensaver-safe", "xcsreensaver-gl", and "xscreensaver-others". At least the two first should be installed by default. The reason to split it, is that the gl package can then be removed safely from systems where it is not wanted. Simply beckause they suck CPU, and on non-hw-3d deployments, you migth not want them.
-- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list
I understand both sides of the coin but I agree with Alex. Also;
[And since most professionals are adults and know that world is filled with all sorts of things that _you_ may not like but that others may[...]]
This works both ways, Fedora is a project meant to encourage creativity and contribution. It makes no claims to being "The Safest Linux for Your Kids!", "Squeamish? Worry not dear fellow, we strive daily to insure that you and your family are completely insolated from the peckidillos and quirks of others!"
"We either accept all freedom for all people, or we accept no freedom for anyone. The happy medium is an illusion."
Of course, Fedora is RH's project, and it is steered by a committee, so we must abide by their decsions, but I don't see even mildly-moderately offensive screensavers being a huge issue in an Open Source, community driven project where creative innovation is desired. Let's try to keep a light heart!
-ishikawa
Alex Catullo wrote:
Professionalism in linux is definitely a nice thing, but if you want it, go out and get a copy of enterprise Linux. In Fedora, it's all about the bleeding edge technology and newest ideas from the community, and being "professional" limits that quite a bit. At least in fedora ther'es the freedom for the creative things like the "unprofessional" barcode and flying toasters screensavers. That's what it's all about, the freedom to add any ideas; and that's why Fedora isn't "professional"
"I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why?"
Because this is Linux. Linux is meant to be that quirky OS that releives the boredom of stock operating systems like windows. If you want to be professional, use RHEL. But in Fedora, we strive to endorse new ideas, regardless of their "professionality"
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:08:39 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak kyrre@solution-forge.net wrote:
Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
tor, 11.11.2004 kl. 16.08 skrev seth vidal:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:58 +0000, chapmanccc@juno.com wrote:
To the developers,
The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women (I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it.
With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the pack' in this area.
This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need to download or purchase them after installing the OS.
Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as possible.
I agree, We should have more professional behavior. And since most professionals are adults and know that world is filled with all sorts of things that _you_ may not like but that others may, I think we should respect the differences between people and let adults choose what behavior of their screensavers they want. Therefore, I recommend screensaver preferences! In EVERY DESKTOP! The ability to choose a screensaver must be included in the distribution to put a stop to this anti-professional degradation.
oh.. wait.. they're already there.
hmm.
-sv
Yes they are. But imagine removing those on every damn user profile in... lets say a school.
What really should be done, is split the screensaverpackage in three rpms (at least) - "xscreensaver-safe", "xcsreensaver-gl", and "xscreensaver-others". At least the two first should be installed by default. The reason to split it, is that the gl package can then be removed safely from systems where it is not wanted. Simply beckause they suck CPU, and on non-hw-3d deployments, you migth not want them.
This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode.
Peace
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 12:06:40AM +0000, Arturo wrote:
This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode.
Here's the list from FC3 (take that, Bayesian filters...):
abdomen abeyance abhorrence abrasion abstraction acid addiction alertness Algeria anxiety aorta argyle socks attrition axis of evil bamboo bangle bankruptcy baptism beer bellicosity bells belly bliss bogosity booty bread bubba burrito California capybara cardinality caribou carnage children chocolate CLONE constriction contrition cop corpse cowboy crabapple craziness cthulhu Death decepticon deception Decker decoder decoy defenestration democracy dependency despair desperation disease disease doberman DOOM dreams dreams drugs easy ebony election eloquence emergency eureka excommunication fat fatherland Faust fear fever filth fluff fnord freedom fruit fruit futility gerbils GOD goggles goobers gorilla halibut handmaid happiness hate helplessness hermaphrodite heroine hope hysteria icepick identity ignorance importance individuality inkling insurrection intoxicant ire irritant jade jaundice Joyce kidney stone kitchenette kiwi lathe lattice lawyer lemming liquidation lobbyist love lozenge magazine magnesium malfunction marmot marshmallow merit merkin mescaline milk mischief mistrust money monkey monkeybutter nationalism nature neuron noise nomenclature nutria OBEY ocelot offspring overseer pain pajamas passenger passion Passover peace penance persimmon petticoat pharmacist PhD pitchfork plague Poindexter politician pony presidency prison prophecy Prozac punishment punk rock punk quagmire quarantine quartz rabies radish rage readout reality reject rejection respect revolution roadrunner rule savor scab scalar Scandinavia schadenfreude security sediment self worth sickness silicone slack slander slavery sledgehammer smegma smelly socks sorrow space program stamen standardization stench subculture subversion suffering surrender surveillance synthesis television tenant tendril terror terrorism terrorist the impossible the unknown toast topography truism turgid underbrush underling unguent unusual uplink urge valor variance vaudeville vector vegetarian venom verifiability victim vignette villainy W.A.S.T.E. wagon waiver warehouse waste waveform whiffle ball whorl windmill words worm worship worship Xanax Xerxes Xhosa xylophone yellow yesterday your nose Zanzibar zeal zebra zest zinc
On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 07:31:45PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 12:06:40AM +0000, Arturo wrote:
This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode.
Here's the list from FC3 (take that, Bayesian filters...):
It's certainly an insight into that developers head 8-)
Monkeybutter indeed.. *shakes head*
Dave
Dave Jones wrote:
On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 07:31:45PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 12:06:40AM +0000, Arturo wrote:
This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode.
Here's the list from FC3 (take that, Bayesian filters...):
It's certainly an insight into that developers head 8-)
And what have you learnt, pray tell
Monkeybutter indeed.. *shakes head*
Dave
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 00:51 +0000, Arturo wrote:
Dave Jones wrote:
On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 07:31:45PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 12:06:40AM +0000, Arturo wrote:
This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode.
Here's the list from FC3 (take that, Bayesian filters...):
It's certainly an insight into that developers head 8-)
And what have you learnt, pray tell
If nothing else it has kept me highly ammused.
However, I am not entirely sure how "Abdomen" is an offencive word, or unprofessional for that matter :)
fre, 12.11.2004 kl. 01.06 skrev Arturo:
Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
tor, 11.11.2004 kl. 16.08 skrev seth vidal:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:58 +0000, chapmanccc@juno.com wrote:
To the developers,
The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women (I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it.
With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the pack' in this area.
This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need to download or purchase them after installing the OS.
Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as possible.
I agree, We should have more professional behavior. And since most professionals are adults and know that world is filled with all sorts of things that _you_ may not like but that others may, I think we should respect the differences between people and let adults choose what behavior of their screensavers they want. Therefore, I recommend screensaver preferences! In EVERY DESKTOP! The ability to choose a screensaver must be included in the distribution to put a stop to this anti-professional degradation.
oh.. wait.. they're already there.
hmm.
-sv
Yes they are. But imagine removing those on every damn user profile in... lets say a school.
What really should be done, is split the screensaverpackage in three rpms (at least) - "xscreensaver-safe", "xcsreensaver-gl", and "xscreensaver-others". At least the two first should be installed by default. The reason to split it, is that the gl package can then be removed safely from systems where it is not wanted. Simply beckause they suck CPU, and on non-hw-3d deployments, you migth not want them.
This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode.
Peace
Thank you. Splitting it up should really be best for all parties - so that if you want it, you can install the rpm (from yum, even). If you dont, remove it, and youll never have an update putting it back behind your back.
Same goes to the GL and other cpu-hogs - on a LTSP server, i would *very much indeed* like to kill off those - through the package system...
You are right, "WebCollage" really displayed some hardcore porn pictures in my test run. So that thing should really not be part of the xscreensavers package.
We cannot keep the "%poisoners" dictionary current in the perl script, so just forget it.
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Alex Catullo -
Arthur Pemberton -
chapmanccc＠juno.com -
Dave Jones -
Douglas Furlong -
Harald Hoyer -
Jason Knight-Martin -
Kyrre Ness Sjobak -
Mark McLoughlin -
Matthew Miller -
seth vidal