Hello,
I read your email on FUEL with keen interest. I totally agree with what you are saying about Firfox Gujarati Browser, because I am experiencing the same problem with Marathi browser.
I do not know how much you are familiar with Indian social and educational environment. However I would like to inform you that all these so called computer engineers simply do not know their own mother tongue properly. They are taught in English medium schools right from pre primary stage. They simply do not consider that they need to have proper knowledge of the Indian Languages, neither they respect the one who speaks Indian languages. If you expect neologism, it is too much for them. They simply do not have that capability. All these smart computer geeks consider their own mother tongue as a down market thing and do not wish to transact their business in Indian languages. We have arrived at this stage due to the neglect by all the successive state governments as well as central Governments towards the development of Indian Languages as a storehouse for the modern science. These efforts are ought to be done by the responsible governments and can not be left to just voluntary efforts. The 5% English speaking Indian population who had the privilege in getting the knowledge from English, simply do not wishes to part this knowledge to the Indian language speaking brothers .
You have given the example of France and you say that nobody in France would care to use computer if it is not in French language. Here in India state and central Governments are planning to change the mother tongue of 100 Billion population in to English to learn modern science, computer and computer science. I am sure, even though you are able to speak English, your pre primary and primary education as well as post graduation is done in French language in a French university if you are brought up in that country. Even after 60 years of Independence we still do not have any Indian Language University which teaches Modern Science in Indian Languages.
Apart from Firefox, I would like to inform about 75% of the 100 Billion Indian population is now a days using mobile phone, yet no Indian Language is available by default on any of the Mobile phones sold in India. If you dial any help line of these mobile companies, they only speak English or sometimes little bit of Hindi. They have the audacity to tell the customer that they are working for Multinational company like Vodafone and we do not speak any Indian Languages. No Gujarati no Marathi.
Same is the case with Open Office localization as well as Microsft's localization. I have personally interacted with the officials of Microsoft as well as the CDAC's officials, which is responsible for Open Office and Firefox localization in Indian Languages. they are the owner of this FUEL list. I have tried to bring this sorry state of the localization efforts to the many participants in this FUEL list personally as well as on other lists and also to the responsible state government officers, but I am yet to meet a person who agrees to these views and takes the cognizance .
You are the first with whom I totally agree.
I am dejected.
Regards,
Nitin Nimkar
________________________________ From: Bernard Massot bmassot@free.fr To: FUEL project fuel-discuss@lists.fedorahosted.org Sent: Sun, December 20, 2009 11:42:40 PM Subject: (ir)relevence of English words in translations
Hello,
As you can guess from my name, I'm not Indian. I'm French and I'm living in France. My mother tongue is French but I also speak and read/write fluent English and Hindi, and I understand Gujarati to some extent. My wife is Gujarati and knows Gujarati and Hindi, and a little French. I believe people should always be able to do everything in their language, that's why I'm interested in FUEL.
The reason for my writing this e-mail is I don't like the very large use of English in current translations into Indian languages (at least Hindi and Gujarati, I guess it's the same for all Indo-Aryan languages, but I'm not sure for Dravidian). There are a lot of translations which are in fact transliterations from English. Maybe the question is : do we translate to make Indians already using computers able to use them in Indian languages, or to make computer use available to non-English speakers?
Most Indians who currently use computers know English and do it entirely in English. That's why, I guess, using non-English technical words feel weird to them and they end up using pure English terms. However such words remain incomprehensible for most Indians, even when written in native scripts. I installed Gujarati Firefox for my wife (who makes use of computer and Internet on a daily basis and is not bad at it, she types in Hindi and Gujarati to look for things in google for instance), but she often doesn't understand what Firefox tells her because important words are just English words. Some of these words already have nice equivalents in Gujarati, and some other could be translated by neologisms that would be understood far more easily than English words.
It seems to me that you're ashamed of using native Indian words in computer science (and other sciences), but you shouldn't. Here in France almost nobody would use computers if it made necessary to learn English. Most computer users don't even know the meaning of "computer". They only know what an "ordinateur" is. The same way, they use a "souris" (the word for the little animal, as in English) to clic and a "clavier" (the part of a piano that has keys) to type. We also never use words such as "file", "window", "bookmark", "tab", "shortcut", "filter", "desktop", "download" or "configure".
Once again, according to me, if the goal is to make computers usable by non-English speakers, stopping using so much English is mandatory.
Hi,
I can understand the feeling and frustration but I don't think we can point our finger towards any single group about the problem.
One point I want to clear here that FUEL is not a project owned by CDAC. This is a community project that can be supported and sponsored by any organizations willing to help the cause for which FUEL is working.
As I know...After Marathi FUEL evaluation, Marathi community's next work is to implement the suggestions that came during FUEL Marathi Meet. And I hope they are working on the same.
regards, Rajesh
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Nitin Nimkar nvncom@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello,
I read your email on FUEL with keen interest. I totally agree with what you are saying about Firfox Gujarati Browser, because I am experiencing the same problem with Marathi browser.
I do not know how much you are familiar with Indian social and educational environment. However I would like to inform you that all these so called computer engineers simply do not know their own mother tongue properly. They are taught in English medium schools right from pre primary stage. They simply do not consider that they need to have proper knowledge of the Indian Languages, neither they respect the one who speaks Indian languages. If you expect neologism, it is too much for them. They simply do not have that capability. All these smart computer geeks consider their own mother tongue as a down market thing and do not wish to transact their business in Indian languages. We have arrived at this stage due to the neglect by all the successive state governments as well as central Governments towards the development of Indian Languages as a storehouse for the modern science. These efforts are ought to be done by the responsible governments and can not be left to just voluntary efforts. The 5% English speaking Indian population who had the privilege in getting the knowledge from English, simply do not wishes to part this knowledge to the Indian language speaking brothers .
You have given the example of France and you say that nobody in France would care to use computer if it is not in French language. Here in India state and central Governments are planning to change the mother tongue of 100 Billion population in to English to learn modern science, computer and computer science. I am sure, even though you are able to speak English, your pre primary and primary education as well as post graduation is done in French language in a French university if you are brought up in that country. Even after 60 years of Independence we still do not have any Indian Language University which teaches Modern Science in Indian Languages.
Apart from Firefox, I would like to inform about 75% of the 100 Billion Indian population is now a days using mobile phone, yet no Indian Language is available by default on any of the Mobile phones sold in India. If you dial any help line of these mobile companies, they only speak English or sometimes little bit of Hindi. They have the audacity to tell the customer that they are working for Multinational company like Vodafone and we do not speak any Indian Languages. No Gujarati no Marathi.
Same is the case with Open Office localization as well as Microsft's localization. I have personally interacted with the officials of Microsoft as well as the CDAC's officials, which is responsible for Open Office and Firefox localization in Indian Languages. they are the owner of this FUEL list. I have tried to bring this sorry state of the localization efforts to the many participants in this FUEL list personally as well as on other lists and also to the responsible state government officers, but I am yet to meet a person who agrees to these views and takes the cognizance .
You are the first with whom I totally agree.
I am dejected.
Regards,
Nitin Nimkar
*From:* Bernard Massot bmassot@free.fr *To:* FUEL project fuel-discuss@lists.fedorahosted.org *Sent:* Sun, December 20, 2009 11:42:40 PM *Subject:* (ir)relevence of English words in translations
Hello,
As you can guess from my name, I'm not Indian. I'm French and I'm living in France. My mother tongue is French but I also speak and read/write fluent English and Hindi, and I understand Gujarati to some extent. My wife is Gujarati and knows Gujarati and Hindi, and a little French. I believe people should always be able to do everything in their language, that's why I'm interested in FUEL.
The reason for my writing this e-mail is I don't like the very large use of English in current translations into Indian languages (at least Hindi and Gujarati, I guess it's the same for all Indo-Aryan languages, but I'm not sure for Dravidian). There are a lot of translations which are in fact transliterations from English. Maybe the question is : do we translate to make Indians already using computers able to use them in Indian languages, or to make computer use available to non-English speakers?
Most Indians who currently use computers know English and do it entirely in English. That's why, I guess, using non-English technical words feel weird to them and they end up using pure English terms. However such words remain incomprehensible for most Indians, even when written in native scripts. I installed Gujarati Firefox for my wife (who makes use of computer and Internet on a daily basis and is not bad at it, she types in Hindi and Gujarati to look for things in google for instance), but she often doesn't understand what Firefox tells her because important words are just English words. Some of these words already have nice equivalents in Gujarati, and some other could be translated by neologisms that would be understood far more easily than English words.
It seems to me that you're ashamed of using native Indian words in computer science (and other sciences), but you shouldn't. Here in France almost nobody would use computers if it made necessary to learn English. Most computer users don't even know the meaning of "computer". They only know what an "ordinateur" is. The same way, they use a "souris" (the word for the little animal, as in English) to clic and a "clavier" (the part of a piano that has keys) to type. We also never use words such as "file", "window", "bookmark", "tab", "shortcut", "filter", "desktop", "download" or "configure".
Once again, according to me, if the goal is to make computers usable by non-English speakers, stopping using so much English is mandatory. -- Bernard Massot
Hi,
One point I want to clear here that FUEL is not a project owned by CDAC. This is a community project that can be supported and sponsored by >>any organizations willing to help the cause for which FUEL is working.
This is precisely the point I am raising. Developing terminology for a particular science can not be left open only for voluntary work. You need to have proper organisation which will have clear and proper mandate and expertise. I guess Tamil group has such backing from University/Tamilnadu Government. They also have a backing from the Tamil Media.
The localization of the softwares should be done on those lines. It can not be left only on voluntary efforts, particularly in India.
Are you aware that due to the lack of standardization of the Marathi script, all the Unicode fonts developed for Hindi are considered good Marathi which is not true. The present Mangala Font which comes with Windows is not suitable for Marathi. People are using it but the Printers and Publishers in Marathi Language simply do not accept this ( and they are right). They are still using non-standard proprietary fonts developed by private vendors because it satisfies their Printing need but it is causing great difficulties for electronic data exchange.
regards, Nitin
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Nitin Nimkar nvncom@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello,
I read your email on FUEL with keen interest. I totally agree with what you are saying about Firfox Gujarati Browser, because I am experiencing the same problem with Marathi browser.
I do not know how much you are familiar with Indian social and educational environment. However I would like to inform you that all these so called computer engineers simply do not know their own mother tongue properly. They are taught in English medium schools right from pre primary stage. They simply do not consider that they need to have proper knowledge of the Indian Languages, neither they respect the one who speaks Indian languages. If you expect neologism, it is too much for them. They simply do not have that capability. All these smart computer geeks consider their own mother tongue as a down market thing and do not wish to transact their business in Indian languages. We have arrived at this stage due to the neglect by all the successive state governments as well as central Governments towards the development of Indian Languages as a storehouse for the modern science. These efforts are ought to be done by the responsible governments and can not be left to just voluntary efforts. The 5% English speaking Indian population who had the privilege in getting the knowledge from English, simply do not wishes to part this knowledge to the Indian language speaking brothers .
You have given the example of France and you say that nobody in France would care to use computer if it is not in French language. Here in India state and central Governments are planning to change the mother tongue of 100 Billion population in to English to learn modern science, computer and computer science. I am sure, even though you are able to speak English, your pre primary and primary education as well as post graduation is done in French language in a French university if you are brought up in that country. Even after 60 years of Independence we still do not have any Indian Language University which teaches Modern Science in Indian Languages.
Apart from Firefox, I would like to inform about 75% of the 100 Billion Indian population is now a days using mobile phone, yet no Indian Language is available by default on any of the Mobile phones sold in India. If you dial any help line of these mobile companies, they only speak English or sometimes little bit of Hindi. They have the audacity to tell the customer that they are working for Multinational company like Vodafone and we do not speak any Indian Languages. No Gujarati no Marathi.
Same is the case with Open Office localization as well as Microsft's localization. I have personally interacted with the officials of Microsoft as well as the CDAC's officials, which is responsible for Open Office and Firefox localization in Indian Languages. they are the owner of this FUEL list. I have tried to bring this sorry state of the localization efforts to the many participants in this FUEL list personally as well as on other lists and also to the responsible state government officers, but I am yet to meet a person who agrees to these views and takes the cognizance .
You are the first with whom I totally agree.
I am
dejected.
Regards,
Nitin Nimkar
________________________________ From: Bernard Massot bmassot@free.fr
To: FUEL project fuel-discuss@lists.fedorahosted.org Sent: Sun, December 20, 2009 11:42:40 PM Subject: (ir)relevence of English words in translations
Hello,
As you can guess from my name, I'm not Indian. I'm French and I'm living in France. My mother tongue is French but I also speak and read/write fluent English and Hindi, and I understand Gujarati to some extent.
My wife is Gujarati and knows Gujarati and Hindi, and a little French.
I believe people should always be able to do everything in their language, that's why I'm interested in FUEL.
The reason for my writing this e-mail is I don't like the very large use
of English in current translations into Indian languages (at least Hindi and Gujarati, I guess it's the same for all Indo-Aryan languages, but
I'm not sure for Dravidian). There are a lot of translations which are
in fact transliterations from English.
Maybe the question is : do we translate to make Indians already using computers able to use them in Indian languages, or to make computer use
available to non-English speakers?
Most Indians who currently use computers know English and do it entirely in English. That's why, I guess, using non-English technical words feel weird to them and they end up using pure English terms. However such
words remain incomprehensible for most Indians, even when written in
native scripts. I installed Gujarati Firefox for my wife (who makes use of computer and Internet on a daily basis and is not bad at it, she types in Hindi and
Gujarati to look for things in google for instance), but she often
doesn't understand what Firefox tells her because important words are just English words. Some of these words already have nice equivalents in Gujarati, and some other could be translated by neologisms that would
be understood far more easily than English words.
It seems to me that you're ashamed of using native Indian words in computer science (and other sciences), but you shouldn't. Here in France
almost nobody
would use computers if it made necessary to learn English. Most computer users don't even know the meaning of "computer". They only know what an "ordinateur" is. The same way, they use a "souris" (the
word for the little animal, as in English) to clic and a "clavier" (the
part of a piano that has keys) to type. We also never use words such as "file", "window", "bookmark", "tab", "shortcut", "filter", "desktop",
"download" or "configure".
Once again, according to me, if the goal is to make computers usable by non-English speakers, stopping using so much English is mandatory. -- Bernard Massot
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 11:23:38PM -0800, Nitin Nimkar wrote:
Are you aware that due to the lack of standardization of the Marathi script, all the Unicode fonts developed for Hindi are considered good Marathi which is not true. The present Mangala Font which comes with Windows is not suitable for Marathi. People are using it but the Printers and Publishers in Marathi Language simply do not accept this ( and they are right). They are still using non-standard proprietary fonts developed by private vendors because it satisfies their Printing need but it is causing great difficulties for electronic data exchange.
Can you describe the problems in current standard Devanagri fonts when writing Marathi? What do they need non-standard non-free fonts for?
Don't hesitate to use a paper, a pen and a scanner to show what is expected!
Dear Mr. Massot,
Please excuse me for delay in reply.
I am attaching a PDF file "Mangal and Marathi script.pdf" which lists some of the differences in the Mangal Font and Marathi Script. The detailed comparison will need inputs from Marathi calligraphers and script experts.
Regards,
Nitin Nimkar
________________________________ From: Bernard Massot bmassot@free.fr To: fuel-discuss@lists.fedorahosted.org Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 1:07:38 AM Subject: Re: (ir)relevence of English words in translations
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 11:23:38PM -0800, Nitin Nimkar wrote:
Are you aware that due to the lack of standardization of the Marathi script, all the Unicode fonts developed for Hindi are considered good Marathi which is not true. The present Mangala Font which comes with Windows is not suitable for Marathi. People are using it but the Printers and Publishers in Marathi Language simply do not accept this ( and they are right). They are still using non-standard proprietary fonts developed by private vendors because it satisfies their Printing need but it is causing great difficulties for electronic data exchange.
Can you describe the problems in current standard Devanagri fonts when writing Marathi? What do they need non-standard non-free fonts for?
Don't hesitate to use a paper, a pen and a scanner to show what is expected!
Thank you for your answer. I asked you to do so because I've started to learn how fonts work (from a technical point of view) in order to try to improve Indic fonts. And I'm discovering that (OpenType) fonts allow far more things that I would have believed. So I felt problems with Marathi can be solved in a simpler way than modifying Unicode charset.
Nitin Nimkar wrote:
I am attaching a PDF file "Mangal and Marathi script.pdf" which lists some of the differences in the Mangal Font and Marathi Script.
I never use Windows so I almost didn't know the Mangal font. My first impression is subjective : this font looks bad in term of design, I mean from an artistic point of view. Then the way conjunctions with ट, ठ, ड and ढ don't work is unbearable. So it seems on Windows you have a default Devanagari font which looks bad, is technically incorrect and isn't even free, whereas there are free fonts available which don't have these problems!
These are some of the examples of differences between Devanagri Script in Mangal and Standard Marathi Script.
Most of them just look like minor design differences. However if it really matters, OpenType (used in most modern font types) allow a font to have different versions (shapes) of a same character, as well as to have different kind of ligatures, matching given languages. The program used to type or to render text have to inform the font renderer what language is being used. I guess it's possible through language settings in OpenOffice.org for instance.
Some Script symbols which are used by Marathi scripts to write foreign words like apple in marathi are absent. In Mangal when you write apple in Marathi (Transliterated) you cannot write it because अ + ऍ together appears अऍ which is not correct. Marathi has this symbol which is absent in Hindi. I would like to clarify here that I am not the script expert for Marathi, but I know few friends who are expert calligraphers in Marathi whom I can consult if the need arises.
This one is not clear at all to me. Can you draw the expected character by hand or scan a newspaper piece? Just in order to make us understand, not to actually design a font.
I would like to inform that Sanskrit 2003 Font which is UNICODE compliant, developed by Omkarananda Ashram Himalayas which is the closest to what Marathi scripts needs with some changes and additions. I have prepared above table using Mangal and Sanskrit 2003 which is available at http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/sanskrit2003.zip
Do you have any idea of this font's license? It's not written inside the font file and their web site doesn't give information either.
Regards,
Thank you very much for your following email.
modifying Unicode charset.<<
I am aware that to accommodate Marathi we need not have to do any modifications to the Unicode Character set. The solution is much simpler. But somebody has to do that.
And I'm discovering that (OpenType) fonts allow far more things that I would have believed. <<
If you help me understand this, I will be obliged. I have 10 Devanagari Open Type fonts which need improvement for Marathi.
So it seems on Windows you have a default Devanagari font which looks bad, is technically incorrect and isn't even free, whereas there are free fonts available which don't have these problems! <<
I 100 % agree with you.
Most of them just look like minor design differences. However if it really matters, OpenType (used in most modern font types) allow a font to have different versions (shapes) of a same character, as well as to have different kind of ligatures, matching given languages. <<
Yes they are minor from technical point of view, however it has significance, particularly for wide acceptance across the community. Moreover the proprietary font makers, who have vested interests, highlight these differences to misguide a common man who is not technical savvy. I am experiencing this in Marathi. Even today after 9 years of existence, UNICODE is little understood by common man, decision makers (bureaucracy), politicians whose support is needed to avoid avoidable simple problems. If you go to www.maharashtra.gov.in which is state government site, which is in English but is not able to speak common man's language.
OpenType (used in most modern font types) allow a font to have different versions (shapes) of a same character, as well as to have different kind of ligatures, matching given languages <<
I will appreciate if you could help me understand this. But to do this, first, somebody has to Modify the given font. Am I right?
http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/sanskrit2003.zip Do you have any idea of this font's license? It's not written inside the font file and their web site doesn't give information either. <<
Best way will be to inquire with them. I will do that and will inform you.
Warm regards,
Nitin Nimkar
________________________________ From: Bernard Massot bernard@free.fr To: fuel-discuss@lists.fedorahosted.org Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 5:33:53 PM Subject: Re: (ir)relevence of English words in translations
Thank you for your answer. I asked you to do so because I've started to learn how fonts work (from a technical point of view) in order to try to improve Indic fonts. And I'm discovering that (OpenType) fonts allow far more things that I would have believed. So I felt problems with Marathi can be solved in a simpler way than modifying Unicode charset.
Nitin Nimkar wrote:
I am attaching a PDF file "Mangal and Marathi script.pdf" which lists some of the differences in the Mangal Font and Marathi Script.
I never use Windows so I almost didn't know the Mangal font. My first impression is subjective : this font looks bad in term of design, I mean from an artistic point of view. Then the way conjunctions with ट, ठ, ड and ढ don't work is unbearable. So it seems on Windows you have a default Devanagari font which looks bad, is technically incorrect and isn't even free, whereas there are free fonts available which don't have these problems!
These are some of the examples of differences between Devanagri Script in Mangal and Standard Marathi Script.
Most of them just look like minor design differences. However if it really matters, OpenType (used in most modern font types) allow a font to have different versions (shapes) of a same character, as well as to have different kind of ligatures, matching given languages. The program used to type or to render text have to inform the font renderer what language is being used. I guess it's possible through language settings in OpenOffice.org for instance.
Some Script symbols which are used by Marathi scripts to write foreign words like apple in marathi are absent. In Mangal when you write apple in Marathi (Transliterated) you cannot write it because अ + ऍ together appears अऍ which is not correct. Marathi has this symbol which is absent in Hindi. I would like to clarify here that I am not the script expert for Marathi, but I know few friends who are expert calligraphers in Marathi whom I can consult if the need arises.
This one is not clear at all to me. Can you draw the expected character by hand or scan a newspaper piece? Just in order to make us understand, not to actually design a font.
I would like to inform that Sanskrit 2003 Font which is UNICODE compliant, developed by Omkarananda Ashram Himalayas which is the closest to what Marathi scripts needs with some changes and additions. I have prepared above table using Mangal and Sanskrit 2003 which is available at http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/sanskrit2003.zip
Do you have any idea of this font's license? It's not written inside the font file and their web site doesn't give information either.
Regards,
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 04:44:02AM -0800, Nitin Nimkar wrote:
And I'm discovering that (OpenType) fonts allow far more things that I would have believed.
If you help me understand this, I will be obliged. I have 10 Devanagari Open Type fonts which need improvement for Marathi.
A good introduction to font making is at http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/overview.html . However it definitely takes time to learn all that.
Most of them just look like minor design differences. However if it really matters, OpenType (used in most modern font types) allow a font to have different versions (shapes) of a same character, as well as to have different kind of ligatures, matching given languages.
Yes they are minor from technical point of view, however it has significance, particularly for wide acceptance across the community. Moreover the proprietary font makers, who have vested interests, highlight these differences to misguide a common man who is not technical savvy. I am experiencing this in Marathi. Even today after 9 years of existence, UNICODE is little understood by common man, decision makers (bureaucracy), politicians whose support is needed to avoid avoidable simple problems.
Common man shouldn't need to know what Unicode is. It should only "work". But I agree with you for other people.
If you go to www.maharashtra.gov.in which is state government site, which is in English but is not able to speak common man's language.
That one is a real shame. I thought web sites using hacks with ascii characters and proprietary unstdandard fonts were history. Maybe you can tell send them an e-mail (written in Unicode Marathi) to explain why they should use Unicode, insisting of the fact that, the current way, their site isn't indexed at all by Google.
OpenType (used in most modern font types) allow a font to have different versions (shapes) of a same character, as well as to have different kind of ligatures, matching given languages
I will appreciate if you could help me understand this. But to do this, first, somebody has to Modify the given font. Am I right?
Yes, you're right. I lack time to work on that but I made some tests and read some doc. I modified Lohit Hindi font to tell it to do the "Marathi L" when Marathi language is required. I managed to understand how to do with Fontforge. I verified the result with the pango-view testing program. However it seems there are not much program actually this Opentype feature.
The languages settings in OpenOffice are only used to "determine the dictionary used for spellcheck, thesaurus and hyphenation, the decimal and thousands delimiter used and the default currency format". I think it has to be patched. I'll have to look at what ICU can do.
I wasn't lucky with Firefox either. The "lang" HTML attribute isn't used to choose the language in the font. The only way I got it using the Marathi L was to run Firefox in a mr_IN locale context. It used the Marathi whatever the web page language, but at least it means it can use this feature some way. It just needs to be improved (patched).
http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/sanskrit2003.zip Do you have any idea of this font's license? It's not written inside the font file and their web site doesn't give information either.
Best way will be to inquire with them. I will do that and will inform you.
Any news? If not already done you could advise them to use the OFL license. See http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/faq.html#license . By default people who don't think seriously about the question tend to use proprietary license even when they are not actually against free use.
Op Ma, 2010-02-01 om 21:13 +0100 skryf Bernard Massot:
OpenType (used in most modern font types) allow a font to have different versions (shapes) of a same character, as well as to
have
different kind of ligatures, matching given languages
I will appreciate if you could help me understand this. But to do this, first, somebody has to Modify the given font. Am I right?
Yes, you're right. I lack time to work on that but I made some tests and read some doc. I modified Lohit Hindi font to tell it to do the "Marathi L" when Marathi language is required. I managed to understand how to do with Fontforge. I verified the result with the pango-view testing program. However it seems there are not much program actually this Opentype feature.
The languages settings in OpenOffice are only used to "determine the dictionary used for spellcheck, thesaurus and hyphenation, the decimal and thousands delimiter used and the default currency format". I think it has to be patched. I'll have to look at what ICU can do.
I wasn't lucky with Firefox either. The "lang" HTML attribute isn't used to choose the language in the font. The only way I got it using the Marathi L was to run Firefox in a mr_IN locale context. It used the Marathi whatever the web page language, but at least it means it can use this feature some way. It just needs to be improved (patched).
Most software that I have seen so far in the GNOME desktop can do the right thing if they are running in the correct locale. (gedit, etc.)
I am a developer for Virtaal - an application for software translation, and Virtaal tries to give the correct hints to the platform to help in the selection of opentype language variants. You can give it a try by opening a Marathi file, and selecting the correct language in the bottom right corner. (If you switch between Hindi and Marathi, you might be able to clearly see the difference.) It might also be necessary to specifically configure your language-aware font in the preferences.
In my experience the GTK+ library can still improve a small bit to make this work really well in the case where you might not be running in the intended locale, but I have verified the use of language-dependent glyphs for some other languages.
I'd like to hear people's feedback on Virtaal. As I mentioned in an earlier mail, Virtaal 0.5 also automatically integrates with the FUEL terms to provide terminology help: http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/virtaal/autoterm
Keep well Friedel
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 10:40:02PM +0200, F Wolff wrote:
I am a developer for Virtaal - an application for software translation, and Virtaal tries to give the correct hints to the platform to help in the selection of opentype language variants. You can give it a try by opening a Marathi file, and selecting the correct language in the bottom right corner. (If you switch between Hindi and Marathi, you might be able to clearly see the difference.) It might also be necessary to specifically configure your language-aware font in the preferences.
Yes, virtaal worked with my Hindi-Marathi font when I switched on-the-fly between languages.
Hello,
This discussion has went pretty off topic and I discovered the Lohit guys were dealing with the same issue, so I continued discussion on the lohit-devel-list mailing list. See https://www.redhat.com/archives/lohit-devel-list/2010-February/msg00016.html and related mails.
Regards,
fuel-discuss@lists.fedorahosted.org