On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 11:58, Draciron Smith <draciron(a)gmail.com> wrote:
http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora
Go down to support options. Under forum it links you to fedoraforum.org. It
has for years now. I think I first joined
Fedoraforums.org back when FC4 or
FC5 was out.
I see that, but I don't think it is shown as being THE place for users
to go. On the other hand I don't think that is really the point of
your emails. You are unhappy with the direction with Fedora and I can
understand and sympathize. In the end, I want people to find what
makes them happy, and if Fedora is not doing it.. please do go find
someplace that will do so.
I have no plan to kick people off the list for opinions I think we
have all had at one time or another. I won't say this is the best
avenue for getting anything done with it.. but I understand. Good luck
with your next OS.
Y'all are welcome to kick me off the list. I'll be leaving it
anyway at the
end of this thread because I no longer use Fedora, thus no real incentive to
contribute any more. I'm no longer active on the
Fedoraforum.org website not
that I was an especially active contributor there. The staff there are quite
knowledgeable and very active so most of the time they answered a question
long before I saw it. Y'all really should lend more support to that website
by actually visiting it and seeing what real life users of your project are
experiencing/asking/happy & upset about.
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 00:51, Draciron Smith <draciron(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > 1. Fedora users feel like they have NO mechanism for feedback.
> >
> > The mailing lists are a maze and designed for contributors not for mere
> > users.
> >
> > The prescribed mechanism on the Fedora website is
> >
http://fedoraforum.org/
>
> Well maybe we need to change that. Fedora Forum is run by an outside
> organization of volunteers.
>
> > This website is clearly avoided like the plague by all contributors. If
> > ANYBODY who had any say in the Fedora project visited things like the
> > VERY
> > VERY VERY unpopular changes to the GDM would be instantly reversed. In
> > fact
> > many like myself for the first time no longer have Fedora running on any
> > of
> > my machines for the first time since Fedora came into existence. Since
> > about
> > 97 I've had at least 1 machine usually most or all running Redhat and
> > later
> > Fedora. It's been my main distro for years. The GDM issue was the last
> > straw. Feedback on fedora forums on all the Linux forums I've visited
> > has
> > been extremely negative and I've seen quite a few people do the same
> > thing I
> > have and switch to another distro.
>
> That is the way of things. New people come in and old people leave. It
> is not an infrastructure item to deal with it other than make those
> transitions as easy as possible.
>
> > 2. Why does the Fedora project TELL people to go to a forum to give
> > feedback
>
> Link please. I don't see where it is told that feedback is to be given
> there.. just that one can best find help there. Two different things.
>
> > then never visit the place much less listen to feedback offered? It is
> > clearly stated at the Fedora forums that contributors never visit there
> > because so many arrive on their shores with the false hope of actually
> > giving feedback.
> >
> >
> >
> > 2011/3/2 "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" <johannbg(a)gmail.com>
> >>
> >> As Brian mentioned in [1],[2] as in the CWG wanted to get a
> >> constructive
> >> feedback on COC and COCE proposed drafts from the whole community on
> >> the
> >> FAB list highlights one issue that the project is facing as in we don't
> >> have a good way of gathering community feedback on topics.
> >>
> >> This issue is probably know but for some reason not being worked upon?
> >> ( Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong )
> >>
> >> Anyway to point out the obvious encase nobody was aware of this issue.
> >> ( we have been without one for now about 15 release cycles so something
> >> is amiss )
> >>
> >> He posts the proposed drafts to a single mailing list which..
> >>
> >> a)
> >> Has a limited number of users subscribed to it
> >>
> >> b)
> >> Requires all members of the community to be subscribed to that
> >> particular list.
> >>
> >> c)
> >> Mailing list provide the ability to see and reply to others people feed
> >> back resulting in so called *noise* as in people reassuring their
> >> feedback encase the message/meaning did get through and etc.. rather
> >> then constructive discussion.
> >>
> >> That results in an end result that is far from being effective and
> >> reaching the whole community.
> >>
> >> Coming up with a rough solution to gather the feedback is a no brainer
> >>
> >> First we need a common dominator that applies to all community members
> >> and that one is obvious FAS account.
> >>
> >> Next we need a web server with a DB backend, hooked up to FAS with an
> >> simple web page that the community member logs into that displays to
> >> him
> >> what he needs to provide his feedback and two text boxes one for the
> >> feedback and another one for any question he might have with regards to
> >> the proposal/draft itself.
> >>
> >> With the above in place all that is needed is to request the feedback
> >> via our public channels like a mail to the announce or something
> >> similar.
> >>
> >> Now the tricky part is coming up with a simple yet scalable to the
> >> total
> >> number of community members solution, to work through all that feedback
> >> I got couple of ideas up my sleeves for that but instead of reinventing
> >> the wheel I propose that existing survey tools like [1],[2] be looked
> >> at
> >> first to see how they have solved the problem we are facing.
> >>
> >> JBG
> >>
> >> 1.
> >>
> >>
> >>
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010525...
> >> 2.
> >>
> >>
> >>
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010526...
> >> 3.
http://www.limesurvey.org/
> >> 4.
http://www.doodle.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> infrastructure mailing list
> >> infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >>
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > infrastructure mailing list
> > infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen J Smoogen.
> "The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance."
> Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University.
> "Let us be kind, one to another, for most of us are fighting a hard
> battle." -- Ian MacLaren
> _______________________________________________
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>
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--
Stephen J Smoogen.
"The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance."
Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University.
"Let us be kind, one to another, for most of us are fighting a hard
battle." -- Ian MacLaren