Ok, so there's a ticket for a new news site,
Fact: PHP apps have a poor track record.
Fact: There doesn't appear to be any viable Python CMS's (you can say
plone, but we've managed to fail at installing it for 2 YEARS now. And
at this point I'm not interested in deploying it for anything other than
the docs site)
So lets get this thread started, Toshio ran some numbers to back up this
claim, 73 vulnerabilities since 2006. So what do we do. I'm pretty in
the middle of this debate at this point. Especially with something like
Discuss, comment, flame. Lets go :)
Just a reminder that after tomorrow night no changes are allowed of any
kind in Fedora's infrastructure without discussing it on the list
first. This includes software upgrades, config changes, etc.
Exceptions are outages / issues.
Changes already in the ticketing system related to the release (like
getting the Fedora 8 content generated and put on the website)
Since last week we have the capability to create bazaar repositories for
hosted projects. If anyone knows of documentation in the wiki that
lists what kind of repositories we can setup, be sure it lists, hg, git,
bzr, and svn as we have the capability for all four of those.
I've migrated the python-fedora and fedora-packagedb repositories onto
our the hosted infrastructure so people using those will need to change
their push and pull locations from fedorapeople.org to:
If you aren't already, you'll also want to use a shared repository with
these branches (bzr init-repo) as sftp is a slower transport than
bzr+ssh. (We need to move to a RHEL5 box in order to allow bzr+ssh again.)
Hi guys, Just a message to let you know syncing owner information from
pkgdb to koji is now being done from a cron script on releng1. You can
still run owner-sync-pkgdb manually after making ownership changes or
adding new packages but if you don't, the changes should propogate to
koji at the top of every hour.
A few notes:
* We're running from releng1 because cvs-int is too old to install the
koji client libraries. At some point in the future cvs-int will move to
a newer version of RHEL and we can run the script from there.
* owner-sync is being run from my crontab on releng1. It has to be run
with a user's certificates as we need to authenticate to koji in order
to update ownership information.
* The script that's driving this is version controlled in
/cvs/pkgs/CVSROOT/admin/owner-sync-pkgdb. I've put it into puppet to
distribute it to releng1 so it's now checked into puppet's config module
Just this idea came into my mind.
How about getting a graphical mirror list instead of or in parallel
with plane text mirror list at
Like this one?
We can have different color schemes for different releases.
That should be help human users to select a closer mirror. Because
people usually select from a first few mirrors instead of scrolling
down to their country. (at least I do :) )
And a question to Mike, was that picture auto generated or generated by hand?
Is this possible?
There has been lots of talk in the past about making it easier to
experiment with changes in Fedora, particularly when many packages are
involved. We never have a good story for this other than "use mock".
However now that we have things like fedorapeople.org and lots of smart
people wanting to improve things, I think we can have a much better
story, one that can rival Ubuntu's offerings
So from the "I don't have time to work on it, but here is what I think
we could do" department I bring you a concept of Koji Personal Repos,
or kopers (pronounced like copper, the metal).
Please have a read at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating/KojiPersonalRepos and let the comments fly.
Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours?
15:59 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Who's here?
15:59 < couf> me
16:00 < frankc> frank is listening
16:00 * paulobanon is here
16:00 * DRebellion is here
16:00 < mmcgrath> dgilmore jeremy abadger1999 jima paulobanon mbonnet f13 mdomsch warren ricky skvidal ivazquez people I forgot: Ping!
16:00 < skvidal> pong
16:00 < mbonnet> pong
16:00 < abadger1999> yo!
16:01 * jeremy is here, but perhaps not for long
16:01 -!- cwt [i=hidden-u(a)gnat.asiscan.com] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:01 < mmcgrath> We'll go quick, I want to talk about the release quite a bit.
16:02 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Outstanding Tickets
16:02 < dgilmore> pong
16:02 < mmcgrath> .tiny https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/query?sta...
16:02 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/yth34b
16:02 < mmcgrath> First up
16:02 < mmcgrath> .ticket 154
16:02 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #154 (DNS) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:03 < mmcgrath> That ones on me, For us to complete it I'd like to wait until after F9 just because we'll have to touch some important systems and I don't want to cause any issues until after the release.
16:03 < mmcgrath> .ticket 192
16:03 * warren here
16:03 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #192 (Netapp low on free space) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:03 < paulobanon> after F9 or F8 ?!
16:03 -!- wolfy [n=lonewolf@fedora/wolfy] has left #fedora-meeting ["A woman's mind is cleaner than a man's. She changes it more often."]
16:03 < mmcgrath> f13 did some recovery this week of the netapp
16:03 < mmcgrath> .tiny https://admin.fedoraproject.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&rra_id=all&lo...
16:03 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/25pnep
16:03 < mmcgrath> unfortunately mere minutes later, he took that space back :)
16:04 < mmcgrath> f13: the plan is we'll see some more recovery by the end of the week?
16:04 < f13> yes
16:04 < f13> once we empty the trash can
16:04 < mmcgrath> <nod>
16:05 < mmcgrath> jeremy: f13: Did you get my email about the different storage devices?
16:05 < f13> plus all f8 being signed with final key means that we can drop some of the -test signed packages and save more.
16:05 < f13> mmcgrath: I did, I haven't responded to it.
16:05 < f13> (I usually just forward them to my manager)
16:06 -!- EvilBob [n=bob(a)fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen] has joined #Fedora-Meeting
16:06 < mmcgrath> f13: k, how hopeful are you we'll get funding for it?
16:07 < mmcgrath> I've been sending out feelers for donations, so far shooting blanks though
16:07 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt] has quit "Konversation terminated!"
16:07 < skvidal> mmcgrath: I get ads for medicine to take care of that problem
16:07 < f13> mmcgrath: I honestly don't know what happened to the Engineering budget. It was on again/offagain etc...
16:08 < f13> mmcgrath: unfortunately it will probably take things getting into a more dire state before we can call in an emergency purchase request.
16:08 < mmcgrath> skvidal: no doubt, we might have to.
16:08 -!- stahnma [n=stahnma(a)c-76-18-178-254.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:08 < f13> mmcgrath: tell you what, I'll make it a point to talk with my manager after we've had GC running for a few weeks to see what kind of long term growth we're talking about.
16:09 < dgilmore> did we get much space freed up?
16:09 < mmcgrath> GC for a few weeks? After this friday's GC, koji won't be getting any smaller right? Only bigger more slowly?
16:09 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: http://tinyurl.com/25pnep
16:09 < mmcgrath> its that dip :) but there's more to come.
16:09 < dgilmore> :)
16:10 < mmcgrath> f13: ^^
16:11 < mmcgrath> ok, we'll move on for now.
16:12 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Release
16:12 < mmcgrath> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-October/m...
16:12 < mmcgrath> I sent an email out to the list, what did everyone think of it?
16:13 -!- iWolf [n=jft(a)oh-67-76-155-115.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:13 < f13> mmcgrath: it actually may get smaller if we let GC go after some locked tags (dist-f7, dist-f8)
16:13 < f13> mmcgrath: but for the most part it should just grow more slowly. I want a better picture of long term space concerns with full fledged GC in action
16:13 < mmcgrath> f13: My worry is that it could, potentially, take a long time to actually get the new device ordered, shipped, installed, certified, configured, handed over to us and have current koji copied to it.
16:14 < mmcgrath> I guess we'l know more this weekend.
16:14 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: thats a very real concern
16:14 < f13> nod
16:14 < f13> I'll be sure to talk to my boss about it very soon
16:14 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: the plan looked pretty sane
16:14 < mmcgrath> Here are the current un-done tickets:
16:14 < mmcgrath> .tiny https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/query?sta...
16:14 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/292qq8
16:14 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: we will have mirroring of the site to multipe diverse locations?
16:15 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: of http://fedoraproject.org/ ?
16:16 < mmcgrath> Compared to the last release we'll have a new proxy box in Denver (thanks tummy.com who has sponsored us)
16:16 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: yeah
16:16 < mmcgrath> as well as an additional proxy server in PHX.
16:17 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: :) thats good
16:17 < mmcgrath> I'm probably going to add an additional proxy server in Denver (probably just going to add an additional IP to the box
16:17 < mmcgrath> and send more traffic there, its a beefy box with more ram then all of our servers in PHX combined.
16:17 < mmcgrath> its also x86_64, blah blah, it can handle a lot more.
16:18 < mmcgrath> so the view for that is fp.o will point to 3 addresses. 2 of them at tummy, one to PHX, the PHX one will have 3 proxy servers behind it though.
16:18 < mmcgrath> sounds a little out of whack but the proxy servers we have in PHX right now are pitiful.
16:18 < mmcgrath> Ok, so lets go through these tickets.
16:18 < mmcgrath> .93
16:18 < mmcgrath> .ticket 93
16:18 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #93 (Fedora 8) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:19 < mmcgrath> Thats the overall F8 release ticket, we won't close that until probably a day or so after F8 ships and we are all basking in its glory.
16:19 < mmcgrath> .ticket 97
16:19 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #97 (Fedora 8 Website) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:19 < mmcgrath> ricky: ping?
16:19 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: ping?
16:19 < mmcgrath> We've actually had a pretty major development in this today. If you go to http://fedoraproject.org/
16:19 < mmcgrath> you'll notice there's a translation on the left side.
16:19 < paulobanon> mmcgrath: ricky said that he wouldnt make it for the meeting
16:19 < mmcgrath> paulobanon: <nod>
16:19 < mmcgrath> http://fedoraproject.org/pt_BR/ <-- translated.
16:20 < mmcgrath> It should also autodetect that if your language is set correctly in your browser.
16:20 * paulobanon goes confirm their portuguese...
16:20 < mmcgrath> this was an F9 target but there's been much support from the translated community as well as work from ivazquez and ricky that makes it possible to do this release.
16:20 * mmcgrath notes - http://www.ubuntu.com/de/ and giggles
16:21 < mmcgrath> anywho, this should be done and ready soon, no major redesigns this time around at least not as far as the user will see.
16:21 < mmcgrath> .ticket 74
16:21 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #74 (2 clicks to live cd) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:21 < mmcgrath> mdomsch has this all ready from his side, we just have to implement it.
16:21 < mmcgrath> .ticket 99
16:21 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #99 (Mirror Coordination) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:22 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: I have this as a ticket, but I'm not sure what it actually means. Is this you or f13?
16:22 < jima> oops.
16:22 < f13> 99?
16:22 < paulobanon> jima: what have you done this time!
16:22 < mdomsch> mmcgrath - it means tell them what bits are coming and when
16:22 < f13> hrm.
16:23 < mdomsch> I started doing this
16:23 < jima> paulobanon: missed part of the meeting. :)
16:23 < f13> oh.
16:23 < paulobanon> :)
16:23 < mmcgrath> So thats nothing amazing, just letting them know when the bits are ready and letting them know when the final bit flip happens?
16:23 < mdomsch> I'd like to get a guesstimate of the size of the data we'll be syncing to the mirrors
16:24 < mdomsch> right
16:24 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: you'll want
16:24 < mmcgrath> .ticket 98
16:24 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #98 (Verify mirror space) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:24 < mdomsch> ha
16:24 < f13> mdomsch: I gave an estimate a short while ago
16:24 < mmcgrath> :) I have it closed already but jesse had an initial estimate of 90G
16:24 < f13> I'll know more early next week.
16:25 < mmcgrath> f13: we're still on target for 90G though?
16:26 * mmcgrath will move on
16:26 < mmcgrath> .ticket 100
16:26 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #100 (Web Content on the mirrors) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:26 < mmcgrath> This is our "backup plan" It will happen just as it did last release, with static content.
16:27 < mmcgrath> its a little unclear at this point what will happen with the translations though thats something we're still trying to determine.
16:27 < mmcgrath> .ticket 101
16:27 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #101 (Fedora Infrastructure Change Freeze) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:27 < mdomsch> mmcgrath, just make sure the web team isn't changing the content on release day
16:27 < mdomsch> again
16:27 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: <nod> I have this I think on the timeline a few days before at least. We'll be more prepared.
16:27 < mmcgrath> So this is the first release where we will have an actual change freeze.
16:28 < mmcgrath> So here are the ground rules.
16:28 < mmcgrath> Any changes to ANY part of our infrastructure that is not preplanned (like switching the website) is forbidden without discussing it with the list first (fedora-infrastructure-list)
16:29 < mmcgrath> Emergencies our outages are different, but if you're going to change something just because, don't. If we've forgotten something, take it to the list and get permission.
16:29 -!- jcollie [n=jcollie(a)dsl-ppp239.isunet.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:29 < mmcgrath> I'm normally a happy go lucky guy, but I'll be pretty harsh about this. If you just change something on your own and don't take it to the list, I will come down on you like the fist of an angry god.
16:30 < mmcgrath> which means I'll just yell a lot and have a visible frown on my face :)
16:30 < mmcgrath> Anyone have any questions about the change freeze?
16:30 * skvidal wonders what the frown looks like
16:30 < mmcgrath> skvidal: I'll get you one after the meeting.
16:30 * skvidal goes to poke at dns for a while to see about illiciting the frown
16:30 < skvidal> la la la, no one needs this 'www'
16:30 < mmcgrath> .ticket 137
16:30 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #137 (Sponsorship prominence) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:31 < mmcgrath> This one is almost done actually, http://fedoraproject.org/sponsors
16:31 < f13> mmcgrath: I think so..
16:31 < f13> mmcgrath: give or take 20G (:
16:32 < mmcgrath> We'll link it off the main page, and we'll want to add perhaps a logo in our template as well. I'll discuss with ricky.
16:32 < mmcgrath> .ticket 210
16:32 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #210 (Disable F8 in Mirrormanager) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:32 < mmcgrath> thats a new one, mdomsch you have that or will someone else do it?
16:32 < mdomsch> yeah, me or someone :-)
16:32 < paulobanon> hehe
16:32 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: perhaps we could create an SOP for it? If you sent me the directions I'd write it up, I know you're busy.
16:33 < mdomsch> empty out repo_redirect.txt, push to app
16:33 < mmcgrath> <nod> k
16:33 < mdomsch> killall -HUP mirrorlist_server.py
16:33 < mmcgrath> .ticket 211
16:33 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #211 (Enable Bodhi Updates) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:33 < mmcgrath> There's already directions how to do that in the ticket. lmacken or f13 will be doing it.
16:33 < mmcgrath> .ticket 17
16:33 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #17 (Secondary Arch Support) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:34 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: ping? Whats the latest on arch support?
16:34 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: waiting on the IA64 machines to be rebuilt and brought online
16:34 < dgilmore> fixing some sparc bugs
16:34 < dgilmore> i need to get with the arm and alpha guys
16:35 < mmcgrath> will we have sparc available for the f8 launch? Should I move that milestone to f9?
16:36 < dgilmore> It will not be ready for launch
16:36 < dgilmore> but it should be ready withing 4-6 weeks after
16:36 < mmcgrath> k, we'll have it for F9 then :)
16:36 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: good job with all of that BTW.
16:36 < mmcgrath> Its about time we had support for all of those things.
16:36 < dgilmore> by F-9 weshould have all secondary archs ready at release time
16:37 < mmcgrath> excellent. dgilmore I'll move that ticket now.
16:38 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: anything else?
16:38 -!- EvilBob [n=bob(a)fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen] has quit "Leaving"
16:38 -!- SmootherFrOgZ [n=Smoother(a)22.214.171.124] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:39 < mmcgrath> skvidal: just for you - http://mmcgrath.fedorapeople.org/frown.jpg
16:39 < mmcgrath> ok, next ticket
16:39 < mmcgrath> .ticket 54
16:39 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #54 (Postfix Server) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:39 < skvidal> mmcgrath: impressive - you need to shave
16:39 < mmcgrath> This seemed like such a big deal at the time.
16:39 < mmcgrath> skvidal: yeah, i do.
16:39 < skvidal> and you look like a muppet
16:39 < paulobanon> skvidal: lol
16:40 < skvidal> 'mi mi mi mi mi'
16:40 < mmcgrath> I'd still like to get this done or something like it done by F8, I'll focus on this over the next week.
16:40 < skvidal> you kinda remind me of beaker
16:40 -!- fabian_a [n=fabian_a(a)84-75-167-142.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:40 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: nothing extra from me
16:40 < mmcgrath> :)
16:40 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: cool
16:40 < mmcgrath> .ticket 136
16:40 < skvidal> mmcgrath: re: postfix - do we have any blockers from legal or IS?
16:40 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #136 (Translated Website) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:40 < mmcgrath> skvidal: no blockers at all, we even have a xen guest partially built.
16:40 < mmcgrath> just a matter of doing the work, and testing.
16:41 < mmcgrath> regarding #136, this was an F9 target, but, as you can see, its basically done now so I moved it up to F8.
16:41 < mmcgrath> .ticket 154
16:41 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #154 (DNS) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:41 < mmcgrath> We discussed this earlier, the bulk of this work is done now and the stuff that isn't done is too risky to do now, so I'll move this to an F9 target but it will likely be done within a few weeks of the F8 launch.
16:41 < mmcgrath> .ticket 177
16:41 < mmcgrathbot> mmcgrath: #177 (Rename cvsextras group to packager) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac
16:41 < mmcgrath> warren: ping
16:41 -!- clarkbw [i=clarkbw@nat/redhat/x-903b15486a02032c] has quit "Ex-Chat"
16:42 < mmcgrath> f13: ping
16:42 < mmcgrath> whats the latest on that?
16:42 < warren> mmcgrath, delayed due to dependency on pkgdb which was needed during branching
16:42 < f13> mmcgrath: hrm?
16:42 < warren> mmcgrath, so I guess doing it during the other big changes after F8 is a good idea
16:42 < f13> ah.
16:42 < f13> sorry, I'm deep in another meeting.
16:42 < mmcgrath> I'll move it to an F9 target.
16:42 < mmcgrath> f13: no worries.
16:43 < mmcgrath> this is just another one of those "too risky to do now" tickets?
16:43 < f13> yeah.
16:43 < f13> or it was during branching.
16:43 < mmcgrath> <nod>
16:43 < mmcgrath> So do we want to keep this as an F8 milestone or move it to F9?
16:43 < warren> after F8
16:43 < abadger1999> Yeah. f13, Do you have a ticket for the other big changes?
16:43 < warren> definitely long before F9
16:44 < mmcgrath> k.
16:44 < abadger1999> We can close this ticket and add it to that one if so.
16:44 < mmcgrath> doesn't matter to me. Its not really related to the release at all, we could just not associate it with a release.
16:45 < abadger1999> Sounds good. I'll remove from release milestones for now.
16:45 < mmcgrath> <nod>
16:45 < mmcgrath> Ok, so thats the last of the tickets. As I mentioned on the list, for this release I'll be largely unavailable as opposed to last release when I was largely in Germany :)
16:46 < f13> abadger1999: depends on if FESCo votes yes on the dev changes next week.
16:46 < abadger1999> k. I'll wait and see :-)
16:46 < mmcgrath> Anyone have any questions related to the release? Its in 2 weeks.
16:47 < warren> yes
16:47 < warren> How are testing of stuff to make our website and wiki not fall over?
16:47 < mmcgrath> I've run some initial tests and benchmarks, the problem is we don't have dedicated machines with the bandwidth to do proper testing this round.
16:48 < mmcgrath> We do have caching abilities in the proxy servers for specific wiki problems.
16:48 -!- tibbs [n=tibbs@fedora/tibbs] has quit "Konversation terminated!"
16:48 < mmcgrath> Other than that, we don't have the resources to do proper testing other then to say we didn't have too many problems last time and have twice the available resources this time around.
16:48 < mmcgrath> warren: I ran a few benchmarks a few months back
16:48 * mmcgrath grabs them.
16:49 < mmcgrath> warren: http://mmcgrath.fedorapeople.org/bench/
16:49 < mmcgrath> I found some of those tests unreliable though I'd love to have a proper benchmark of our various pieces of hardware.
16:50 < mmcgrath> start.fedoraproject.org could get very interesting as the release goes on.
16:50 < mmcgrath> It has potential to have a dramatic affect on our page serves.
16:50 * mdomsch presumes that's load-balanced across the proxies
16:51 < mdomsch> and the page itself is lightweight
16:51 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: yep, its across proxies and IIRC its on the PHX and Denver proxies.
16:51 < mmcgrath> what is *not* balanced is search.fedoraproject.org
16:51 < mmcgrath> Which A) isn't ready yet and B) isn't under our control.
16:52 < mmcgrath> Worst case scenario once its ready is us pointing our searches back to google directly. I'm not that familiar with the contract but I believe we (Fedora) are under no obligation to use it.
16:52 < mmcgrath> Ok, anyone have anything else related to the release?
16:53 < mmcgrath> Ok, That means time for open floor
16:53 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Open Floor
16:53 < mmcgrath> Anyone have anything they'd like to discuss?
16:54 * mmcgrath twiddles thumbs for a moment :0
16:54 < mmcgrath> Ok, thats it then
16:54 < jima> *crickets chirping*
16:54 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- meeting Closed
16:54 < mmcgrath> Thanks for coming everyone.
16:55 -!- LetoTo [n=paul(a)76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit "Leaving."
16:55 < paulobanon> i would like to say that func is functastic!
16:55 < mmcgrath> paulobanon: maybe you'd like to work with skvidal on the Fedora Infrastructure deployment?
16:58 -!- couf is now known as couf_afk
16:59 < skvidal> paulobanon: I've got a partial description of what I would like to implement
16:59 < skvidal> paulobanon: I'll post it as soon as I feel happy