Off-list as I am going to try and make this useful.
On 10 August 2016 at 17:45, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson <johannbg(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 08/10/2016 01:04 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
The reasons for working with Ansible are compelling:
* Many people are already using it and have tools and processes in place
for it.
* We have access to expertise to enhance and tweak it to our needs (with
the
Red Hat acquisition of Ansible, they are now part of the Fedora community)
* There already exists a community of playbook writers that can help us get
up
to speed (Ansible Galaxy)
With this in mind, it really feels like the best way forward *right now*.
It's not the best way forward for home,hobby administrator since it serves
little to no purpose for them to be running their own CM tool at home nor
does this serve the corporate administrators since they need a compelling
business case for their superior to be able to a) deploy and run Fedora in
whatever form in the corporate infrastructure and b) make changes to the
company infrastructure and start using (new) CM tool for deployment ( which
brings in it's own complexity & learning curve and associated training cost
for staff ) so what you probably mean to say is this:
"This will *always* only benefit Red Hat for early adoption and testing on
Ansible as well as those that are already running Ansible as their cm tool
in their infrastructure ( as opposed to puppet or chef )."
At this point in time the people behind the idea of products and
implementation of WG's at Red Hat need to face the fact that how they
approached it, created the governance structure surrounding the WG's and
implemented it in the distribution have failed miserably in doing so and
that effort has been a sink hole of contributed time. The distribution would
have been better of if this had been implemented as I proposed here when I
served on the WG's ( at least even if this would have been failure as a
result of that proposal, the distribution would have been more prepared for
agile changes since that approach allowed for much more drastic cleanups and
changes without affecting end users ).
If the intent is going to be heading down this path, this time and if this
is truly going to be effort worthwhile for Fedora community members to
participate in not yet another Red Hat effort in shoving it's products down
community members throats for early adoption and testing of those products (
which now would be dubbed take the Ansible pill ), then you will need to
approach this effort with the intent of gaining as much participation as
possible and that requires providing the same solution,integration or
"server recipe" in all three cm tools out there, Ansible Books, Chief
recipes and Puppet manifests however be advised there exist already upstream
community surrounding solutions as well as "sharing" books,manifests and
recipes so in the long run you would just be setting up the ( server )
community to be competing with those with a high probability that the (
server ) community would lose that battle.
The above is hard to parse and seems a rehash of things you have said
over and over again. The problem with repeating them over and over
again is that they come across either as "I didn't get my way so I am
having an email temper tantrum" or "The moon landings were fake and
Red Hat was behind it" type conspiracy. Neither are what you are
wanting to say but both of them makes it very hard for anyone to read
to the end or take anything said in the email seriously.
Here's a simple question why should administrators be partaking
in this
effort here and contributing their free or paid time vs spending that time
contributing in the associating upstream communities like Ansible Galaxy in
which the social networking amongst like minded people and expertise reside?
What will they gain from that?
^^^^^^
This was actually something that needs to be answered. It is the
atgeir that silently brings in a lot of the issues you listed above
but with a focus. I know it is very tempting to write long diatribes
to hammer on the points you are wanting to make but sometimes a simple
one paragraph does better than 3 long ones (That said I am guilty of
this and have to say this to myself a lot)
JBG
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Stephen J Smoogen.