Hi people!
Since it's Friday evening, I just unilateraly decided to migrate all the lists to Mailman3 without telling you anything in advance... Nah just kidding :-)
However, I think the best time to migrate the rest of the lists would be the week before Thanksgiving. That would give me some time with you all around to fix the most urgent problems, and time for me during a week with less activity in the US to fix the lower priority ones.
Some lists are still using the two features that are not yet ported, namely the filters and the topics. Those lists would stay on the current server for now, but migrating the rest would still be an improvement. This would mean migration would start on November 16th. What do you think?
I'm also trying to write an announcement for the lists (like devel-announce), but I'm looking for a native english speaker to help me with that. It would be something like :
---------------- Dear list users,
The Fedora Engineering team has been working on a new system for our mailing lists. Mailman 3 came out earlier this year and it has a new shiny web UI: HyperKitty.
The Fedora project lists will be migrated starting November 16th. You on't have to use the new UI to keep participating in the mailing-lists, but the change to Mailman 3 may cause issues with the way you filter your email. Here are a few things you should expect after this change, especially if you're using procmail for filtering: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration. But it should mostly work as before. A link to HyperKitty will be included in the email footers when your list is migrated. Some lists which use Mailman 2.1's advanced filtering capabilities (by header or by topic) will remain on the current version until these features are ported to Mailman 3.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the infrastructure list: infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org. ------------------
Am I missing important information? Feel free to reword things if they are not clear or if it's just bad style.
Thanks ! Aurélien
On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 19:42:26 +0100 Aurelien Bompard abompard@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hi people!
Since it's Friday evening, I just unilateraly decided to migrate all the lists to Mailman3 without telling you anything in advance... Nah just kidding :-)
However, I think the best time to migrate the rest of the lists would be the week before Thanksgiving. That would give me some time with you all around to fix the most urgent problems, and time for me during a week with less activity in the US to fix the lower priority ones.
Some lists are still using the two features that are not yet ported, namely the filters and the topics. Those lists would stay on the current server for now, but migrating the rest would still be an improvement. This would mean migration would start on November 16th. What do you think?
I think that sounds good.
I know it's hard to estimate times, but perhaps we could look at migrating all of lists.fedorahosted.org (aside the ones that use filters and topics) first on the 16th, then start on the lists.fedoraproject.org ones after that? Or keeping a status on the wiki might be nice so people know where we are.
Is there any news on when the filters/topics support might appear?
I'm also trying to write an announcement for the lists (like devel-announce), but I'm looking for a native english speaker to help me with that. It would be something like :
Dear list users,
The Fedora Engineering team has been working on a new system for our mailing lists. Mailman 3 came out earlier this year and it has a new shiny web UI: HyperKitty.
The Fedora project lists will be migrated starting November 16th. You on't have to use the new UI to keep participating in the mailing-lists, but the change to Mailman 3 may cause issues with the way you filter your email. Here are a few things you should expect after this change, especially if you're using procmail for filtering: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration. But it should mostly work as before. A link to HyperKitty will be included in the email footers when your list is migrated. Some lists which use Mailman 2.1's advanced filtering capabilities (by header or by topic) will remain on the current version until these features are ported to Mailman 3.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the infrastructure list: infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org.
Overall it looks good, but I'd rephrase it a bit:
The Fedora Engineering team has been working on a new system for our mailing lists. Mailman 3 came out earlier this year and it has a new shiny web UI: HyperKitty.
The Fedora Hosted lists will be migrated on November 16th, and the Fedora project lists later in the week. After migration you should be able to use the new hyperkitty UI to post and read the lists if you choose or continue to get emails in the traditional way.
There may be some changes in some headers, so if you filter your list emails be ready to adjust your filters. (See wiki page below for details).
Some lists using mailman2 features not yet available in mailman3 will be migrated later. (See above wiki page for a full list).
More information as well as current lists migrated, being migrated and deferred for migration can be found at:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration
If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the infrastructure list: infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org.
Am I missing important information? Feel free to reword things if they are not clear or if it's just bad style.
We should add a status section on the wiki with lists migrated, lists not yet migrated, lists waiting for features and perhaps lists currently being migrated. Then people can just look there for status.
Thanks for working on this!
kevin
On Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 12:50:11PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 19:42:26 +0100 Aurelien Bompard abompard@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Dear list users,
The Fedora Engineering team has been working on a new system for our mailing lists. Mailman 3 came out earlier this year and it has a new shiny web UI: HyperKitty.
The Fedora project lists will be migrated starting November 16th. You on't have to use the new UI to keep participating in the mailing-lists, but the change to Mailman 3 may cause issues with the way you filter your email. Here are a few things you should expect after this change, especially if you're using procmail for filtering: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration. But it should mostly work as before. A link to HyperKitty will be included in the email footers when your list is migrated. Some lists which use Mailman 2.1's advanced filtering capabilities (by header or by topic) will remain on the current version until these features are ported to Mailman 3.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the infrastructure list: infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org.
Overall it looks good, but I'd rephrase it a bit:
The Fedora Engineering team has been working on a new system for our mailing lists. Mailman 3 came out earlier this year and it has a new shiny web UI: HyperKitty.
The Fedora Hosted lists will be migrated on November 16th, and the Fedora project lists later in the week. After migration you should be able to use the new hyperkitty UI to post and read the lists if you choose or continue to get emails in the traditional way.
There may be some changes in some headers, so if you filter your list emails be ready to adjust your filters. (See wiki page below for details).
Some lists using mailman2 features not yet available in mailman3 will be migrated later. (See above wiki page for a full list).
More information as well as current lists migrated, being migrated and deferred for migration can be found at:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration
If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the infrastructure list: infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org.
Maybe we could point them to the staging instance so that can get acquainted with the UI if they haven't seen it before?
Pierre
I know it's hard to estimate times, but perhaps we could look at migrating all of lists.fedorahosted.org (aside the ones that use filters and topics) first on the 16th, then start on the lists.fedoraproject.org ones after that? Or keeping a status on the wiki might be nice so people know where we are.
Agreed, I'm starting this status page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration/Status
Is there any news on when the filters/topics support might appear?
I don't know about topics, it was the subject of a GSoC project this year, and I need to as the team what they think of the result. About filters, I have writter the proper support in Mailman, it only needs to be intergrated in the web admin UI, Postorius. If the main migration goes well, the lists being blocked because of filters support shouldn't have to wait too long.
A link to HyperKitty will be included in the email footers when your list is migrated.
That's actually not true, many lists have customized their footer and I'm not sure we want to edit that (which can be tricky because of character encoding) and add the HyperKitty link. It just seems rude :-)
We should add a status section on the wiki with lists migrated, lists not yet migrated, lists waiting for features and perhaps lists currently being migrated. Then people can just look there for status.
I'll keep that up-to-date on the Status page.
Maybe we could point them to the staging instance so that can get acquainted with the UI if they haven't seen it before?
Hmm, I'm worried about people actually using it to send email, since it has a different underlying email configuration, the email may be lost.
There's also another missing feature that was brought to my attention: some people were using Mailman 2.1's mbox archives in scripts to parse incoming patches, for example. While I have rewritten the "Export to mbox" feature, some lists in Mailman 2.1 were actually exporting the private archive, without any tinkering of the incoming email (no escaping of email addresses, etc). This is not recommended, and to be honest I didn't know Mailman 2.1 actually offered this feature. The only example I was given was on a redhat.com mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/, and I haven't found a fedoraproject.org list with the same behavior, but I'll check that before migrating.
Should we send the announcement now? Which list(s) do you think would be appropriate?
Thanks! Aurélien
On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 18:07:59 +0100 Aurelien Bompard abompard@fedoraproject.org wrote:
I know it's hard to estimate times, but perhaps we could look at migrating all of lists.fedorahosted.org (aside the ones that use filters and topics) first on the 16th, then start on the lists.fedoraproject.org ones after that? Or keeping a status on the wiki might be nice so people know where we are.
Agreed, I'm starting this status page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration/Status
Sounds good.
Is there any news on when the filters/topics support might appear?
I don't know about topics, it was the subject of a GSoC project this year, and I need to as the team what they think of the result. About filters, I have writter the proper support in Mailman, it only needs to be intergrated in the web admin UI, Postorius. If the main migration goes well, the lists being blocked because of filters support shouldn't have to wait too long.
ok. It would be awesome if we could retire the old mailman2 stuff by the end of the year. ;)
A link to HyperKitty will be included in the email footers when your list is migrated.
That's actually not true, many lists have customized their footer and I'm not sure we want to edit that (which can be tricky because of character encoding) and add the HyperKitty link. It just seems rude :-)
Yeah, I am fine not messing with that.
We should add a status section on the wiki with lists migrated, lists not yet migrated, lists waiting for features and perhaps lists currently being migrated. Then people can just look there for status.
I'll keep that up-to-date on the Status page.
ok
Maybe we could point them to the staging instance so that can get acquainted with the UI if they haven't seen it before?
Hmm, I'm worried about people actually using it to send email, since it has a different underlying email configuration, the email may be lost.
True.
There's also another missing feature that was brought to my attention: some people were using Mailman 2.1's mbox archives in scripts to parse incoming patches, for example. While I have rewritten the "Export to mbox" feature, some lists in Mailman 2.1 were actually exporting the private archive, without any tinkering of the incoming email (no escaping of email addresses, etc). This is not recommended, and to be honest I didn't know Mailman 2.1 actually offered this feature. The only example I was given was on a redhat.com mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/, and I haven't found a fedoraproject.org list with the same behavior, but I'll check that before migrating.
Huh. ok, weird... I didn't know people were doing this either.
Should we send the announcement now? Which list(s) do you think would be appropriate?
Id say:
announce devel-announce hosted-announce
kevin
On Mon, Nov 09, 2015 at 11:51:27AM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
A link to HyperKitty will be included in the email footers when your list is migrated.
That's actually not true, many lists have customized their footer and I'm not sure we want to edit that (which can be tricky because of character encoding) and add the HyperKitty link. It just seems rude :-)
Yeah, I am fine not messing with that.
Let's instead give really simple instructions for adding it. And make sure it happens on at least the big lists.
Can we add it in cases where the footer isn't customized?
We should add a status section on the wiki with lists migrated, lists not yet migrated, lists waiting for features and perhaps lists currently being migrated. Then people can just look there for status.
I'll keep that up-to-date on the Status page.
ok
Maybe we could point them to the staging instance so that can get acquainted with the UI if they haven't seen it before?
Hmm, I'm worried about people actually using it to send email, since it has a different underlying email configuration, the email may be lost.
True.
There's also another missing feature that was brought to my attention: some people were using Mailman 2.1's mbox archives in scripts to parse incoming patches, for example. While I have rewritten the "Export to mbox" feature, some lists in Mailman 2.1 were actually exporting the private archive, without any tinkering of the incoming email (no escaping of email addresses, etc). This is not recommended, and to be honest I didn't know Mailman 2.1 actually offered this feature. The only example I was given was on a redhat.com mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/, and I haven't found a fedoraproject.org list with the same behavior, but I'll check that before migrating.
Huh. ok, weird... I didn't know people were doing this either.
Should we send the announcement now? Which list(s) do you think would be appropriate?
Id say:
announce devel-announce hosted-announce
kevin
infrastructure mailing list infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/infrastructure@lists.fedoraprojec...
Let's instead give really simple instructions for adding it. And make sure it happens on at least the big lists.
Can we add it in cases where the footer isn't customized?
I'll check that.
OK I've sent the emails to the lists, they are obviously held for moderation, could someone with the right permissions accept them?
Thanks.
Aurélien
On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 19:33:16 +0100 Aurelien Bompard abompard@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Let's instead give really simple instructions for adding it. And make sure it happens on at least the big lists.
Can we add it in cases where the footer isn't customized?
I'll check that.
OK I've sent the emails to the lists, they are obviously held for moderation, could someone with the right permissions accept them?
I did a while back right after they were sent. ;)
let me know if you still see any moderated.
kevin
On Fri, 2015-11-06 at 19:42 +0100, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
Hi people!
Since it's Friday evening, I just unilateraly decided to migrate all the lists to Mailman3 without telling you anything in advance... Nah just kidding :-)
However, I think the best time to migrate the rest of the lists would be the week before Thanksgiving. That would give me some time with you all around to fix the most urgent problems, and time for me during a week with less activity in the US to fix the lower priority ones.
Some lists are still using the two features that are not yet ported, namely the filters and the topics. Those lists would stay on the current server for now, but migrating the rest would still be an improvement. This would mean migration would start on November 16th. What do you think?
Our patch review list (anaconda-patches) has been migrated, but it looks like the new Mailman 3 archiver is eating leading whitespace, as can be seen for example here: https://lists.fedorahosted.org/archives/list/anaconda-patches%40lists.f edorahosted.org/thread/WTFPAE42MMMQFDBPYFJZKNA37ABFWYU6/
The source code is Python, so the whitespace that got eaten is rather important - the patches on the list are more or less unreadable without it. Also I don't think this is a browser issues as I see the same problem at least in Firefox and in QupZilla.
Is this already known issues or should I report it somewhere ? IMHO it's a pretty serious UX bug.
Best Wishes Martin Kolman
I'm also trying to write an announcement for the lists (like devel-announce), but I'm looking for a native english speaker to help me with that. It would be something like :
Dear list users,
The Fedora Engineering team has been working on a new system for our mailing lists. Mailman 3 came out earlier this year and it has a new shiny web UI: HyperKitty.
The Fedora project lists will be migrated starting November 16th. You on't have to use the new UI to keep participating in the mailing-lists, but the change to Mailman 3 may cause issues with the way you filter your email. Here are a few things you should expect after this change, especially if you're using procmail for filtering: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration. But it should mostly work as before. A link to HyperKitty will be included in the email footers when your list is migrated. Some lists which use Mailman 2.1's advanced filtering capabilities (by header or by topic) will remain on the current version until these features are ported to Mailman 3.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the infrastructure list: infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org.
Am I missing important information? Feel free to reword things if they are not clear or if it's just bad style.
Thanks ! Aurélien _______________________________________________ infrastructure mailing list infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/infrastructure@lists.fedor aproject.org
Hey Martin,
Our patch review list (anaconda-patches) has been migrated, but it looks like the new Mailman 3 archiver is eating leading whitespace, as can be seen for example here: https://lists.fedorahosted.org/archives/list/anaconda-patches%40lists.f edorahosted.org/thread/WTFPAE42MMMQFDBPYFJZKNA37ABFWYU6/
The source code is Python, so the whitespace that got eaten is rather important - the patches on the list are more or less unreadable without it. Also I don't think this is a browser issues as I see the same problem at least in Firefox and in QupZilla.
Is this already known issues or should I report it somewhere ? IMHO it's a pretty serious UX bug.
Thanks for reporting. It's not a know bug but there's a UI decision to make here I think. Could you open a ticket here please: https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues
Thanks. Aurélien
Since it's Friday evening, I just unilateraly decided to migrate all the lists to Mailman3 without telling you anything in advance... Nah just kidding :-)
However, I think the best time to migrate the rest of the lists would be the week before Thanksgiving. That would give me some time with you all around to fix the most urgent problems, and time for me during a week with less activity in the US to fix the lower priority ones.
Some lists are still using the two features that are not yet ported, namely the filters and the topics. Those lists would stay on the current server for now, but migrating the rest would still be an improvement. This would mean migration would start on November 16th. What do you think?
I'm also trying to write an announcement for the lists (like devel-announce), but I'm looking for a native english speaker to help me with that. It would be something like :
Dear list users,
The Fedora Engineering team has been working on a new system for our mailing lists. Mailman 3 came out earlier this year and it has a new shiny web UI: HyperKitty.
The Fedora project lists will be migrated starting November 16th. You on't have to use the new UI to keep participating in the mailing-lists, but the change to Mailman 3 may cause issues with the way you filter your email. Here are a few things you should expect after this change, especially if you're using procmail for filtering: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailman3_Migration. But it should mostly work as before. A link to HyperKitty will be included in the email footers when your list is migrated. Some lists which use Mailman 2.1's advanced filtering capabilities (by header or by topic) will remain on the current version until these features are ported to Mailman 3.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the infrastructure list: infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org.
Am I missing important information? Feel free to reword things if they are not clear or if it's just bad style.
It seems that possibly some of the mailing lists that were retired and remained just for reference but supposedly no longer receiving messages. In this case mobility.
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/mobility.lists.fedoraproject.org...
Peter
It seems that the links to ML are broken after migration to HyperKitty. For example, in this ticket [1], there is referenced this link [2]. The link says "2013-December", but when I open it, I got this email [3]. The email is from January 2014 and moreover, it is definitely not the one I would expect by context of the topic. The link should very likely reference the email [4], but hard to guess now :/
Vít
[1] https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/398 [2] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/packaging/2013-December/009899.htm... [3] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/packaging%40lists.fedoraprojec... [4] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/packaging%40lists.fedoraprojec...
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 09:27:18AM +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote:
It seems that the links to ML are broken after migration to HyperKitty. For example, in this ticket [1], there is referenced this link [2]. The link says "2013-December", but when I open it, I got this email [3]. The email is from January 2014 and moreover, it is definitely not the one I would expect by context of the topic. The link should very likely reference the email [4], but hard to guess now :/
Looks like they're going to 404 errors now. This is kind of unfortunate, because there's a lot of history here and there will be a _lot_ of broken incoming links.
----- Original Message -----
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 09:27:18AM +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote:
It seems that the links to ML are broken after migration to HyperKitty. For example, in this ticket [1], there is referenced this link [2]. The link says "2013-December", but when I open it, I got this email [3]. The email is from January 2014 and moreover, it is definitely not the one I would expect by context of the topic. The link should very likely reference the email [4], but hard to guess now :/
Looks like they're going to 404 errors now. This is kind of unfortunate, because there's a lot of history here and there will be a _lot_ of broken incoming links.
We made these 404's when we found out that they were redirecting to the wrong posts. Once all lists are moved to mailman, we will be putting the old archives back, restoring all original links to their original posts.
With kind regards, Patrick Uiterwijk Fedora Infra
On Tue, Dec 01, 2015 at 09:41:59AM -0500, Patrick Uiterwijk wrote:
We made these 404's when we found out that they were redirecting to the wrong posts. Once all lists are moved to mailman, we will be putting the old archives back, restoring all original links to their original posts.
Would it be possible to make the 404 page say that?
On Tue, Dec 01, 2015 at 09:41:59AM -0500, Patrick Uiterwijk wrote:
We made these 404's when we found out that they were redirecting to the wrong posts. Once all lists are moved to mailman, we will be putting the old archives back, restoring all original links to their original posts.
Would it be possible to make the 404 page say that?
OK, I've tweaked the regexes that I use for redirection to let the requests to the old archives be served by the old server, so they should all be working now. Please tell me if you find other broken links, but we should be all set.
Aurélien
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org