Da Rock wrote:
On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 20:20 -0400, max wrote:
> Da Rock wrote:
>> On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 09:11 -0400, max bianco wrote:
>>> On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Da Rock
>>>> On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 13:23 +0930, Tim wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 09:36 +1000, Da Rock wrote:
>>>> > > As for computers; what really gets on my goat is that
they're not put to
>>>> > > full use. We originally put men on the moon with them, we have
>>>> > > that are semi intelligent that we compete against, and YET we
>>>> > > them simply as a typewriter or communication device. Yes, they
>>>> > > used as this, but they have so much grunt these days they
could be doing
>>>> > > the mundane of our tasks in life. Stupid M$ has made our
>>>> > > and our computers still run as slow as they did under 3.1 with
>>>> > > shit they put in the software.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Thats why SETI and other boinc projects can use our collective
>>>> > > computing power as a supercomputer more powerful than one put
>>>> > > dedicated use. Really seems silly doesn't it? We dreamed
of geek houses
>>>> > > in the seventies and eighties, and still we haven't got
there- and not
>>>> > > due to the lack of technology...
>>>> > I tend to sway the other direction. We're all too quick at
>>>> > computing into areas where it doesn't really belong. e.g.
>>>> > to think that putting a computer somewhere is the answer, never
>>>> > that personal teaching would be more appropriate. School's as
>>>> > exercise in learning social skills and doing what you're
supposed to be
>>>> > doing, as it is in learning how to do math, etc. And what do we do
>>>> > the students sorely lacking in social skills? Put them on a
>>>> > often flying solo...
>>>> > Then there's the home situation. In days gone past, the most
>>>> > technical thing anyone had to do at home was get the television to
>>>> > a decent picture. Now we do have computers in media centres that
>>>> > you jump through hoops to try and connect two devices together in a
>>>> > that works. Digital video that doesn't work across different
>>>> > because of imcompatible techniques (I hesitate to refer to them as
>>>> > "standards"). Recorders that forever blink 12:00 at you.
>>>> > receivers that stutter and repeat where analogue receivers give
>>>> > perfect results. Computerised washing machines that aren't any
>>>> > than the old ones, even worse if you want to do something simple
>>>> > repeat one cycle because something went wrong. And that Pile of
>>>> > running Windows that spews viruses and spam around the world.
>>>> > Our leisure time has gone from enjoying the company of friends,
>>>> > a book, listening to music, watching a film, to spending lots of
>>>> > and money maintaining a plethora of technology at home, or just
>>>> > up with it not working right.
>>>> So you'd throw the baby out with the bathwater here?
>>>> The concept is right, and would yield a plethora of opportunities- but
>>>> it MUST BE DONE RIGHT. You're damned right about the M$ shitbox
>>>> out crap. This thread and punch cards thread, plus the majority of the
>>>> audience on this list (it seems) come from an era where the job was
>>>> right and it Just Works (TM) (I hope I haven't offended the coiner).
>>>> comes along and cheapifies it all, but it does the job in opening the
>>>> public to computing. What should have happened was that the training
>>>> wheels should have come off- but instead users have hung on to them and
>>>> think they're clever getting them to do things like video
>>>> They should have moved on to something that truely is customizable such
>>>> any *nix variation. I'd even allow them Ubuntu if it got them off
>>>> damn drug produced by M$.
>>>> And there is addiction through and through.
>>>> Computers could be put to use as they were intended to- to make life
>>>> easier- but the majority of corporations are unwilling to throw money
>>>> something to do the whole job when they could get away with doing a
>>>> assed job instead. Plus they make money because the unit craps out and
>>>> the consumer has to buy another one.
>>>> I had an old man come into my shop one day with the ccd piece of a
>>>> scanner (at which point I'm almost physically slapping my head!)
>>>> requesting a spare part for it. I then sympathetically explained that
>>>> he'd need a special jig to replace it anyway so there's no spare
>>>> and of course that got him started on corporate wastefulness and so on
>>>> for over half an hour in a lecture to me. I agreed totally, but I
>>>> couldn't help him then. This is the half assed job we're talking
>>>> maybe not with scanners, but the majority of products (especially the
>>>> ones you mentioned- washers and dryers, HiFi equipment, etc).
>>>> The fact of the matter is: any job worth doing is worth doing properly.
>>>> Make it work. For those of you who think the majority of work has been
>>>> done and now its only tweaking: its not over. There's miles to be
>>>> to get that slogan back into gear, make it Just Work (TM).
>>>> As for the social aspect, consider this: we're arguing this point
>>>> several continents! If it weren't for computers, we couldn't be
>>>> this. There are dangers, but this is as much of a social skill as
>>>> learning not to talk to strangers. So everyone can learn something.
>>>> social activities can occur than ever before across a wide area. Forget
>>>> just the local dance hall social scene- try a GLOBAL dance hall.
>>>> And the choice is there to do what you want- or you can put it all
>>>> and get outdoors or whatever.
>>>> In this point Tim, I agree with your view of the crap, but I'd ask
>>>> you consider the wider ramifications of what life would be like IF
>>>> computers were put to good use, and done so properly. In former
>>>> civilizations we had slaves (I'm not saying this is a good thing
>>>> I abhor the way they were treated) to make life easier, now we need to
>>>> use technology to achieve the same lifestyle- FOR ALL PEOPLE, not an
>>>> elite few. We can achieve something never achievable before...
>>> It comes down to education. People put up with crap because they don't
>>> know any better. The majority of the school system uses M$ Office and
>>> pays for the privilege. They could easily use Open Office which is
>>> free and the equal of M$ Office in everyway that counts. They could
>>> save a ton of money, donate to help improve the project, and still
>>> come out ahead. All the money saved could be invested where it
>>> matters, like a working terminal on every student's desk.
>> I'm afraid not, been down that track numerous times with NGO's and other
>> organisations. The excuse is "we're not going to retrain", "we
>> stick with something we're familiar with", "our head office only
>> office and we need to be compatible with them", "our suppliers can
>> read M$ office documents". Tell them it is compatible as well and they
>> start back peddling even faster.
>> Doesn't that sound like addiction to you? "I don't have a problem, I
>> give up at any time"?
>> What you considered would be wonderful, but it never grabs them. Been
>> there, tried that...
>> Such a shame.
> It is a shame but it won't change from the top down. Good change starts
> from the bottom up. Education is the key as always. Most people are
> surprised to find out Open Office is free and they certainly can't
> believe its just as functional but it is. Things are changing slowly but
> surely, there is alot of inertia in the market to overcome, besides
> which people are often not farsighted enough to see the long term
> consequences of their choices but that too is a matter of education. I
> bet if a CD full of free software was stuffed in every mailbox like
> those annoying AOL cd's you'd find it would take hold rather quickly.
Tried that. When a habit becomes impossible to break despite all reason
it becomes addiction. Thats whats happened - despite education, and TCO
analysis, business, schools and home users refuse to give up M$. I have
just seen an organisation here working with a government welfare agency
offering computers stacked with M$ shit to people with practically no
money. Why not use free stuff here? Because they won't change their
mind- everybody uses it, its what evryone's used to, what they'll use in
the workplace, etc. Never mind that the basic principles of use don't
change across platform and its easy to learn from *nix to M$.
If you were running the organization would you stack the computers with
microshit? This is the people at the top, they go with what everyone
else does because your proabably not going to get fired for buying m$
unless you work for me that is ;)
This government refuses to use free software- and have actually
over to M$ from *nix- and also buys systems from overseas vendors, even
though there are local offerings. Business is the same.
Actually certain parts of gov't , are using open-source quite a bit.
There have been a few articles about this, i'll see if I can dig them up.
If this is not happening somewhere else then let me know and I'll
and join you- I'm tired of banging my head against a brick wall! Mind
you I'll never give up, but I will show them how its done.
Its everywhere ,unfortunately, but I can see the cracks spreading so its
just a matter of time. I don't like banging my head against a brick wall
either but the brick's gonna give before I do!!