Am 27.07.2013 21:31, schrieb Michael Scherer:
Le samedi 27 juillet 2013 à 12:54 +0200, Reindl Harald a écrit :
>
> Am 27.07.2013 12:45, schrieb drago01:
>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Nicolas Mailhot
>>>> Even if we do that ... for most of those user this mails are mostly
noise.
>>>
>>> Where are the facts backing this assertion?
>>
>> Common sense ...
>
> so i am maintaing more than 20 fedora machines and i am
> happy about this mails from my *first day* with Fedora
> many years ago
Sure, so that's 1 person. No, find just a bit more and we will start to
be able to have proper data instead of anecdote.
5 others around me...........
in fact anybody *i know* weho is using Linux
I can tell that most of the non technical users ( around 40 in my
office, but I have no reason to believe the 1960 in others offices are
different on that part ) using linux desktop at work ask me why they
receive mail everyday speaking of the backup system not being configured
( and so mailling them to enable it )
perfect - so why does the admin not his job and configure or remove it?
there you see *why* the mails are good *because* they ask
Most have no idea why they receive mail from the computer
most have no idea about anything on computers
but if they face things they can understand them
with remove anything "most have no idea" you can
remove the whole operating syetem at all
A mail sent by your computer to say something on a regular basis is
not,
except for technical person like you and me ( and usually, when I
receive mail from cron, they are obscure and useless and due to some
failure, so I think people writing cron job do not care that much to
help me seeing what is is wrong ).
i can not remember any cron mail which was not clear
in doubt Google is everybody's friend
>> where are the facts backing up the opposite?
>
> nobody needs to backing up the opposite!
>
> if somebody comes up and and declares long existing
> things as noise and wants to deprecate them he is
> the one who has to bring facts
cron output is usually not translated ( cause it is well know that every
admin speak english, why should we take care of that ), and that's
already a problem.
really?
A mail do not permit a good interaction ( like "click here to
configure
stuff that you should configure" ) while a notification permit that ( at
least on a desktop )
i doubt that a desktop notify permits the user admin-actions
and if so which ones so that i can file a bugreport
There is no rate limitation for cronjob output. Usually, no need to
send
me 100 mails about "job error, no disk space", I got the message on the
first mail, the 99th are just useless spam that also contribute to the
problem.
if you really got the message you would have took action
AFAIK, you cannot easily ( ie, without being minimaly command line
savy
) opt out of the mail notification, except by filtering that on your
mail
you *should not* opt out
if smartd or mdadm are sending mails you should look at it
For a desktop use case with a single user, that's already enough
reasons
to use something else. For a desktop with more than 1 user, the issue
are the same, except that now, someone has to configure the email of
every user in /etc/aliases, thus needing more than a anaconda patch.
the user type you are describing all the time has no
user cronjobs at all and the root-messages are for
whoever calls himself admin and responsible for the
machine
And for servers, having 2 ways to get logs of what is running is
just
asking for more work than needed. When you setup something to aggregate
the log ( splunk, central syslog ), there is no need to have a second
system that send a different type of log on a different way, just
because "this was done like this before". 2 systems, twice the risk of
failing, twice the work to setup, and of course, they do not match on
feature
do you watch all day long syslog of all machines?
i do not because i have no time to do so and no place for so many terminals
*but* any cronjob mail put via sieve in his folder get attention
hence if my scripts are facing something is going wrong they
simple echo what is wrong because i can rely that it ends in
a notify-mail instead get spotted tomorrow
thats why i can work this clean way running 600 domains with
php error_reporting E_ALL and twice a hour collect the error
log and echo it for a notify - well that is not the desktop case
*but* if i had not seen this all at the desktop i would probably
not know these things now
there are *many* things which got "deperecated" from mostly the same
people which are the reason i am doing today the job i do and without
them i stil would be only programmer and not sysadmin and *that*
is why IMHO it is completly wrong to remove things from which others
could learn the same as i did