With all the talk of Wayland, I followed up on the idea of downloading an F40 Live image and seeing if it boots on my existing hardware.
Well, it did boot on two out of three laptops that are currently running F39.
On a 2013-era Thinkpad W520 it immediately fails with a:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
So: would anyone care to put forward an informed opinion?
On 5/3/24 15:42, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
With all the talk of Wayland, I followed up on the idea of downloading an F40 Live image and seeing if it boots on my existing hardware.
Well, it did boot on two out of three laptops that are currently running F39.
On a 2013-era Thinkpad W520 it immediately fails with a:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
So: would anyone care to put forward an informed opinion?
Try the MATE and XFCe spins and let us know: https://fedoraproject.org/spins/
MATE is a little bit easier to use
ToddAndMargo via users writes:
On 5/3/24 15:42, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
With all the talk of Wayland, I followed up on the idea of downloading an F40 Live image and seeing if it boots on my existing hardware.
Well, it did boot on two out of three laptops that are currently running F39.
On a 2013-era Thinkpad W520 it immediately fails with a:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
So: would anyone care to put forward an informed opinion?
Try the MATE and XFCe spins and let us know: https://fedoraproject.org/spins/
That was an XFCE spin Live CD, actually…
On 5/3/24 17:24, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
ToddAndMargo via users writes:
On 5/3/24 15:42, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
With all the talk of Wayland, I followed up on the idea of downloading an F40 Live image and seeing if it boots on my existing hardware.
Well, it did boot on two out of three laptops that are currently running F39.
On a 2013-era Thinkpad W520 it immediately fails with a:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
So: would anyone care to put forward an informed opinion?
Try the MATE and XFCe spins and let us know: https://fedoraproject.org/spins/
That was an XFCE spin Live CD, actually
I use XFCE myself, but go for MATE for new/low skill users.
This could very well be a BIOS issue. I hate those and firmware updates go foobar a lot, bricking the motherboard.
On 5/3/24 18:28, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
On 5/3/24 17:24, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
ToddAndMargo via users writes:
On 5/3/24 15:42, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
With all the talk of Wayland, I followed up on the idea of downloading an F40 Live image and seeing if it boots on my existing hardware.
Well, it did boot on two out of three laptops that are currently running F39.
On a 2013-era Thinkpad W520 it immediately fails with a:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
So: would anyone care to put forward an informed opinion?
Try the MATE and XFCe spins and let us know: https://fedoraproject.org/spins/
That was an XFCE spin Live CD, actually
I use XFCE myself, but go for MATE for new/low skill users.
This could very well be a BIOS issue. I hate those and firmware updates go foobar a lot, bricking the motherboard.
Try popping the BIOS into LEGACY boot
On 5/3/24 15:42, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
With all the talk of Wayland, I followed up on the idea of downloading an F40 Live image and seeing if it boots on my existing hardware.
Well, it did boot on two out of three laptops that are currently running F39.
On a 2013-era Thinkpad W520 it immediately fails with a:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
That's a grub error.
Samuel Sieb writes:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
That's a grub error.
That would have larger repercussions. If it was just a kernel issue I could still boot an earlier F39 kernel. But there's only one grub. It's all, or nothing.
On 5/3/24 17:26, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
Samuel Sieb writes:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
That's a grub error.
That would have larger repercussions. If it was just a kernel issue I could still boot an earlier F39 kernel. But there's only one grub. It's all, or nothing.
I expect it's related to how booting is setup from an iso file. It's very unlikely to be an issue with a real drive.
Samuel Sieb writes:
On 5/3/24 17:26, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
Samuel Sieb writes:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
That's a grub error.
That would have larger repercussions. If it was just a kernel issue I could still boot an earlier F39 kernel. But there's only one grub. It's all, or nothing.
I expect it's related to how booting is setup from an iso file. It's very unlikely to be an issue with a real drive.
It's something with that particular, older hardware, not the iso file.
An old memory resurfaced: I dimly recalled having problems with using USB storage devices on the two USB 3.0 ports on that laptop. This was back in the days with iffy hardware support on Linux, so it was second nature for me to try the third, USB 2.0 port on back of the laptop, and they worked.
So I tried the Live CD on the USB 2.0 port, and it booted.
So, it's ten years later and Linux still has occasional hardware issues, it seems…
On 5/3/24 6:03 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
Samuel Sieb writes:
On 5/3/24 17:26, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
Samuel Sieb writes:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load the kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a kernel issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora Live image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the kernel from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing hard drive.
That's a grub error.
That would have larger repercussions. If it was just a kernel issue I could still boot an earlier F39 kernel. But there's only one grub. It's all, or nothing.
I expect it's related to how booting is setup from an iso file. It's very unlikely to be an issue with a real drive.
It's something with that particular, older hardware, not the iso file.
An old memory resurfaced: I dimly recalled having problems with using USB storage devices on the two USB 3.0 ports on that laptop. This was back in the days with iffy hardware support on Linux, so it was second nature for me to try the third, USB 2.0 port on back of the laptop, and they worked.
So I tried the Live CD on the USB 2.0 port, and it booted.
So, it's ten years later and Linux still has occasional hardware issues, it seems…
Again, not Linux. That's grub and most likely a bios issue. EFI support on older hardware wasn't the best.
On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 10:05 PM Sam Varshavchik mrsam@courier-mta.com wrote:
It's something with that particular, older hardware, not the iso file.
An old memory resurfaced: I dimly recalled having problems with using USB storage devices on the two USB 3.0 ports on that laptop. This was back in the days with iffy hardware support on Linux, so it was second nature for me to try the third, USB 2.0 port on back of the laptop, and they worked.
So I tried the Live CD on the USB 2.0 port, and it booted.
So, it's ten years later and Linux still has occasional hardware issues, it seems…
Until the graphics card died a year ago, I was using a 2007 desktop. There were a couple times when newer kernels had simple mistakes that broke modules supporting old hardware. Others had already filed bug reports by the time I encountered issues, and fixes were not long in appearing.
I recall seeing reports of bugs in early USB3 hardware. Over the years, linux has had workarounds for hardware idiosyncrasies. I think some of those workarounds are being dropped or lost as support for newer hardware is added with new and improved code.
You should not be surprised by issues with recent kernels and hardware over a decade old.
On Sat, 2024-05-04 at 08:28 -0300, George N. White III wrote:
Over the years, linux has had workarounds for hardware idiosyncrasies. I think some of those workarounds are being dropped or lost as support for newer hardware is added with new and improved code.
You should not be surprised by issues with recent kernels and hardware over a decade old.
Especially considering what someone said on this list not long ago, saying how they thought everybody has beefy CPUs and graphics cards, to which I gave a one-word answer.
It's no surprise that software developers might have the latest and greatest PC, but it's hardly representative of all users. Of course they can't have every piece of hardware to test against, but it's quite contemptuous to expect people to just spend more money on their PC.
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 7:30 AM George N. White III gnwiii@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
You should not be surprised by issues with recent kernels and hardware over a decade old.
It may be worth pointing out that the kernel still supports the ISA bus, which is early IBM PC support. If the kernel supports a 40 year old bus, then a 10 year old video card should also be supported. It is probably more correct to say, the problem is with the driver, like no one has ported it to the latest kernel.
Jeff
On Sat, 2024-05-04 at 14:53 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 7:30 AM George N. White III gnwiii@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
You should not be surprised by issues with recent kernels and hardware over a decade old.
It may be worth pointing out that the kernel still supports the ISA bus, which is early IBM PC support. If the kernel supports a 40 year old bus, then a 10 year old video card should also be supported. It is probably more correct to say, the problem is with the driver, like no one has ported it to the latest kernel.
"Support" isn't binary. I have a 10-year old MSI motherboard and get a slew of ACPI errors every time I boot. They don't seem to affect anything but they're there. I presume that a more modern mobo would have fewer of these, if any.
poc
On Sat, 2024-05-04 at 22:32 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
"Support" isn't binary. I have a 10-year old MSI motherboard and get a slew of ACPI errors every time I boot. They don't seem to affect anything but they're there. I presume that a more modern mobo would have fewer of these, if any.
I have to wonder just how many things (motherboards, peripherals, software, etc) were knowingly released full of bugs with either the thought that they'd get around to fixing them with an update, or just didn't give a damn. We've probably all had something that never worked right, and was never going to.
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 8:40 PM Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Sat, 2024-05-04 at 22:32 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
"Support" isn't binary. I have a 10-year old MSI motherboard and get a slew of ACPI errors every time I boot. They don't seem to affect anything but they're there. I presume that a more modern mobo would have fewer of these, if any.
I have to wonder just how many things (motherboards, peripherals, software, etc) were knowingly released full of bugs with either the thought that they'd get around to fixing them with an update, or just didn't give a damn. We've probably all had something that never worked right, and was never going to.
My experience with early stuff released with bugs is that it was released after they got it to work on one system. Many issues were related to timing so stuff that worked initially would fail when moved to a newer, faster, machine. People were devising workarounds for buggy hardware. Some of those may have been adopted by distros, but are now being lost.
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 5:33 PM Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2024-05-04 at 14:53 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 7:30 AM George N. White III gnwiii@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
You should not be surprised by issues with recent kernels and hardware over a decade old.
It may be worth pointing out that the kernel still supports the ISA bus, which is early IBM PC support. If the kernel supports a 40 year old bus, then a 10 year old video card should also be supported. It is probably more correct to say, the problem is with the driver, like no one has ported it to the latest kernel.
"Support" isn't binary. I have a 10-year old MSI motherboard and get a slew of ACPI errors every time I boot. They don't seem to affect anything but they're there. I presume that a more modern mobo would have fewer of these, if any.
I've seen the ACPI errors a lot in the past, too.
I noticed they are not present in Fedora's 6.8 kernel. I guess that means the messages have been suppressed, or the kernel driver has been fixed. I also update my UEFI regularly, so it could be OEM bug fixes, too.
Jeff
On Sat, 2024-05-04 at 20:08 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
"Support" isn't binary. I have a 10-year old MSI motherboard and get a slew of ACPI errors every time I boot. They don't seem to affect anything but they're there. I presume that a more modern mobo would have fewer of these, if any.
I've seen the ACPI errors a lot in the past, too.
I noticed they are not present in Fedora's 6.8 kernel. I guess that means the messages have been suppressed, or the kernel driver has been fixed. I also update my UEFI regularly, so it could be OEM bug fixes, too.
I'm on F40 with the latest kernel and am still getting them.
poc
On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 8:26 PM Sam Varshavchik mrsam@courier-mta.com wrote:
Samuel Sieb writes:
error: ../../grub-core/disk/efi/efidisk.c:531:invalid buffer alignment -1112264040 error: ../../grub-core/loader/i386/efi/linux.c:258:you need to load
the
kernel first.
Press any key to continue...
Although my plans are to use dnf system-upgrade, this looks like a
kernel
issue to me. It is unclear to me whether the issue lies with the Fedora
Live
image, or if there's something on this laptops that just blows the
kernel
from high orbit, whether it'll boot from the USB stick or its existing
hard
drive.
That's a grub error.
That would have larger repercussions. If it was just a kernel issue I could still boot an earlier F39 kernel. But there's only one grub. It's all, or nothing.
I think Samuel is on the right track.
What type of machine is it? BiOS or UEFI? Can you show the output of `fwupdmgr get-devices`? Does it show a UEFI device, like 'UEFI ESRT device'? Or is it a BiOS system with a MBR?
Jeff
-
George N. White III -
Jeffrey Walton -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Sam Varshavchik -
Samuel Sieb -
Tim -
ToddAndMargo