Who was the genius who decided Fedora 19 XFCE should no longer include the OpenJDK 7 JRE like F18 did?.
This causes me lots of hassle. :-(
FC
Hi
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
Who was the genius who decided Fedora 19 XFCE should no longer include the OpenJDK 7 JRE like F18 did?.
This causes me lots of hassle.
Desktop team manages the live cd. Several packages were dropped in the last minute due to space limitations
Rahul
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 15:13:14 -0400, Fernando Cassia fcassia@gmail.com wrote:
Who was the genius who decided Fedora 19 XFCE should no longer include the OpenJDK 7 JRE like F18 did?.
You are not being excellent.
This causes me lots of hassle.
You can build your own custom live images relatively easily and add on new packages (as well as get updates since the f19 release) to the image.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
Desktop team manages the live cd. Several packages were dropped in the last minute due to space limitations
The ISO isn't even 700MB! Why are they still using 650MB apparently as the CD size?
F19 XFCE ISO image: HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK Length: 616562688 (588M) [application/x-iso9660-image]
FC
Hi
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Fernando Cassia fcassia@gmail.com wrote:
The ISO isn't even 700MB! Why are they still using 650MB apparently as the CD size?
You never mentioned that you were using the Xfce image and yes, Xfce still targets CD size
Rahul
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 15:27:15 -0400 Fernando Cassia fcassia@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
Desktop team manages the live cd. Several packages were dropped in the last minute due to space limitations
The ISO isn't even 700MB! Why are they still using 650MB apparently as the CD size?
Because it's what the Xfce-ml was asked about and answered with. If Xfce is what your are interested in, every release there is a What goes in, what goes out session.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 15:27:15 -0400, Fernando Cassia fcassia@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
Desktop team manages the live cd. Several packages were dropped in the last minute due to space limitations
The ISO isn't even 700MB! Why are they still using 650MB apparently as the CD size?
F19 XFCE ISO image: HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK Length: 616562688 (588M) [application/x-iso9660-image]
I think Rahul missed that you were talking about XFCE rather than the Gnome live image.
If you care about particular things in Fedora, it helps to participate in their development. I don't know why that package didn't end up in the final image, but removing it may not have been a concious decision, but perhaps it was due to a change in dependencies. For example the OpenJDK 8 version might have been picked up. (I didn't check to see if that was what happened, but rather it is a plausible cause that might have changed things without any of the XFCE guys noticing.)
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Bruno Wolff III bruno@wolff.to wrote:
For example the OpenJDK 8 version might have been picked up. (I didn't check to see if that was what happened, but rather it is a plausible cause that might have changed things without any of the XFCE guys noticing.)
No, apparently there is no Java at all on the liveCD... :-(
$ java bash: java: command not found [liveuser@localhost ~]$
I got used to booting the LiveCD, downloading a couple Java apps (single .jar files) I use daily and then doing java -jar appname.jar to start them... (Java Image Editor for instance).
That was possible with F18 XFCE but no longer in F19 :-/
Since there's apparently plenty of room in the XFCE F19 .iso image to reach 650MB, that sparked my question... Sorry if this rubbed someone the wrong way, it's not my interest to annoy anyone, just a genuine interest in knowing if there was some technical reason for the removal.
Perhaps I will ask in the XFCE mailing list(s).
Thanks anyway.... FC
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Fernando Cassia fcassia@gmail.com wrote:
F19 XFCE ISO image: HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK Length: 616562688 (588M) [application/x-iso9660-image]
Apparently the RPMs are 29MB compressed, including all deps...
# yum install java-1.7.0-openjdk Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, langpacks Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * fedora: mirror.globo.com * updates: mirror.globo.com Resolving Dependencies --> Running transaction check ---> Package java-1.7.0-openjdk.i686 1:1.7.0.25-2.3.10.4.fc19 will be installed --> Processing Dependency: jpackage-utils >= 1.7.3-1jpp.2 for package: 1:java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.25-2.3.10.4.fc19.i686 --> Processing Dependency: xorg-x11-fonts-Type1 for package: 1:java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.25-2.3.10.4.fc19.i686 --> Processing Dependency: tzdata-java for package: 1:java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.25-2.3.10.4.fc19.i686 --> Processing Dependency: rhino for package: 1:java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.25-2.3.10.4.fc19.i686 --> Processing Dependency: libgif.so.4 for package: 1:java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.25-2.3.10.4.fc19.i686 --> Running transaction check ---> Package giflib.i686 0:4.1.6-7.fc19 will be installed ---> Package jpackage-utils.noarch 0:1.7.5-26.fc19 will be installed --> Processing Dependency: javapackages-tools for package: jpackage-utils-1.7.5-26.fc19.noarch ---> Package rhino.noarch 0:1.7R4-3.fc19 will be installed --> Processing Dependency: jline for package: rhino-1.7R4-3.fc19.noarch ---> Package tzdata-java.noarch 0:2013c-2.fc19 will be installed ---> Package xorg-x11-fonts-Type1.noarch 0:7.5-8.fc19 will be installed --> Processing Dependency: ttmkfdir for package: xorg-x11-fonts-Type1-7.5-8.fc19.noarch --> Processing Dependency: ttmkfdir for package: xorg-x11-fonts-Type1-7.5-8.fc19.noarch --> Running transaction check ---> Package javapackages-tools.noarch 0:0.14.1-2.fc19 will be installed ---> Package jline.noarch 0:1.0-4.fc19 will be installed ---> Package ttmkfdir.i686 0:3.0.9-39.fc19 will be installed --> Finished Dependency Resolution
Dependencies Resolved
================================================== Package Arch Version Repository Size ================================================== Installing: java-1.7.0-openjdk i686 1:1.7.0.25-2.3.10.4.fc19 updates 27 M Installing for dependencies: giflib i686 4.1.6-7.fc19 fedora 39 k javapackages-tools noarch 0.14.1-2.fc19 fedora 26 k jline noarch 1.0-4.fc19 fedora 68 k jpackage-utils noarch 1.7.5-26.fc19 fedora 63 k rhino noarch 1.7R4-3.fc19 updates 1.0 M ttmkfdir i686 3.0.9-39.fc19 fedora 45 k tzdata-java noarch 2013c-2.fc19 updates 158 k xorg-x11-fonts-Type1 noarch 7.5-8.fc19 fedora 521 k
Transaction Summary ================================================== Install 1 Package (+8 Dependent packages)
Total download size: 29 M
(no need to reply, I' m just gathering data about OpenJDK 7 JRE size, and posted this to help someone else looking for this info later, I thought it might be useful :)
FC
On 7/19/2013 3:13 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
Who was the genius who decided Fedora 19 XFCE should no longer include the OpenJDK 7 JRE like F18 did?.
This causes me lots of hassle. :-(
FC
So what you are complaining about is that the people that made the Xfce ISO did not build it exactly to your, personal specifications? Really? How dare them to not build one just for you!!
Said in guest. My suggestion? Live with it.
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 16:47:12 -0400 Fernando Cassia fcassia@gmail.com wrote:
Apparently the RPMs are 29MB compressed, including all deps...
# yum install java-1.7.0-openjdk Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, langpacks Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
Well, thanks Fernando. I too was used to see OpenJDK include in the live CD by force of habit.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 6:36 PM, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
So what you are complaining about is that the people that made the Xfce ISO did not build it exactly to your, personal specifications? Really? How dare them to not build one just for you!!
No, re-read my message. Im saying that OpenJDK was part of Fedora 16 XFCE, then Fedora 17 XFCE and then Fedora 18 XFCE, but in F19 XFCE suddenly its no more,and I wondered why. I would have appreciated some polling in advance to users if it was a matter of lack of space... or to be warned in advance about the change.
So its not MY specification but THEIR OWN specs in at least the last three releases that they have departed from (I started usjng F16 XFCE soon after F16 was released, and if my memory serves me right OpenJDK was there)
FC
On 07/20/2013 02:29 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Daviddgboles@gmail.com wrote:
So what you are complaining about is that the people that made the Xfce ISO did not build it exactly to your, personal specifications? Really? How dare them to not build one just for you!!
No, re-read my message. Im saying that OpenJDK was part of Fedora 16 XFCE, then Fedora 17 XFCE and then Fedora 18 XFCE, but in F19 XFCE suddenly its no more,and I wondered why. I would have appreciated some polling in advance to users if it was a matter of lack of space... or to be warned in advance about the change.
So its not MY specification but THEIR OWN specs in at least the last three releases that they have departed from (I started usjng F16 XFCE soon after F16 was released, and if my memory serves me right OpenJDK was there)
FC
Hi!
Are you sure the the openjdk is missing at all, or it is "just disabled" ? (rpm -qa | grep java-1.7.0-openjdk)
I made an packaging mistake in 32 openjdk, which results to wrongly set-up alternatives.
Please see https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2013-July/437565.html and the realted bugs.
The fix fill go out soon, but unluckily it will not affect live cds :(
Sorry J.
On 7/19/2013 8:29 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 6:36 PM, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
So what you are complaining about is that the people that made the Xfce ISO did not build it exactly to your, personal specifications? Really? How dare them to not build one just for you!!
No, re-read my message. Im saying that OpenJDK was part of Fedora 16 XFCE, then Fedora 17 XFCE and then Fedora 18 XFCE, but in F19 XFCE suddenly its no more,and I wondered why. I would have appreciated some polling in advance to users if it was a matter of lack of space... or to be warned in advance about the change.
So its not MY specification but THEIR OWN specs in at least the last three releases that they have departed from (I started usjng F16 XFCE soon after F16 was released, and if my memory serves me right OpenJDK was there)
Without starting a contest I have been using Linux since the instal image would fit on a 650 CD. :-)
As I recall the discussion most people don't need Java so it's space was replaced with something useful to many.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:06 PM, nomnex nomnex@gmail.com wrote:
Well, thanks Fernando. I too was used to see OpenJDK include in the live CD by force of habit.
Good to know I wasn't the only one.
FC
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 15:46:12 -0400 Fernando Cassia fcassia@gmail.com wrote:
No, apparently there is no Java at all on the liveCD... :-(
I assume you mean the Xfce live media here... there's lots of Fedora LiveCd's. ;)
$ java bash: java: command not found [liveuser@localhost ~]$
I got used to booting the LiveCD, downloading a couple Java apps (single .jar files) I use daily and then doing java -jar appname.jar to start them... (Java Image Editor for instance).
That was possible with F18 XFCE but no longer in F19 :-/
Since there's apparently plenty of room in the XFCE F19 .iso image to reach 650MB, that sparked my question... Sorry if this rubbed someone the wrong way, it's not my interest to annoy anyone, just a genuine interest in knowing if there was some technical reason for the removal.
It was space related. I don't think it would even fit now, but I can look and see.
Perhaps I will ask in the XFCE mailing list(s).
This was discussed extensively on the fedora xfce list. ;)
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
kevin
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:29:55 -0300 Fernando Cassia fcassia@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 6:36 PM, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
So what you are complaining about is that the people that made the Xfce ISO did not build it exactly to your, personal specifications? Really? How dare them to not build one just for you!!
No, re-read my message. Im saying that OpenJDK was part of Fedora 16 XFCE, then Fedora 17 XFCE and then Fedora 18 XFCE, but in F19 XFCE suddenly its no more,and I wondered why. I would have appreciated some polling in advance to users if it was a matter of lack of space... or to be warned in advance about the change.
This was discussed a lot on the fedora Xfce list. Sorry it wasn't asked in a wider area.
It's basically space reasons. It wouldn't fit and still let us meet the 700MB target.
So its not MY specification but THEIR OWN specs in at least the last three releases that they have departed from (I started usjng F16 XFCE soon after F16 was released, and if my memory serves me right OpenJDK was there)
I don't know anywhere where the Xfce SIG promises some interface simply based on it being shipped in the past. ;)
Sorry it's been a trouble for you.
kevin
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:35 AM, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
most people don't need Java so it's space was replaced with something useful to many.
Please dont confuse "needing Java" with that myopic/biased view of "Java as applets".
There's plenty of useful cross platform Java apps out there. I can think of Jitsi, Vuze, Java Image Editor, muCommander... those are the ones I often use, and there are others I keep in a pen drive like Angry IP Scanner, Sweet Home 3D for ocassional use... just to name a few. Not to mention the ability to run scripts written in any of the many JVM languages like jython, JRuby, Scala and the like...
http://www.drdobbs.com/jvm/a-long-look-at-jvm-languages/240007765 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages
Just because you dont like Java it doesnt mean that nobody likes and uses OpenJDK. H*ck, last time I looked RedHat was one of the main contributors to it...
http://www.redhat.com/summit/2012/pdf/2012-DevDay-OpenJDK-Bhole.pdf ...they even trumpet its OpenJDK7 performance http://investors.redhat.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=754548
Even RedHat has its own JVM languaje that runs atop OpenJDK: Ceylon... FC
On 7/21/2013 5:40 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:35 AM, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
most people don't need Java so it's space was replaced with something useful to many.
Please dont confuse "needing Java" with that myopic/biased view of "Java as applets".
There's plenty of useful cross platform Java apps out there. I can think of Jitsi, Vuze, Java Image Editor, muCommander... those are the ones I often use, and there are others I keep in a pen drive like Angry IP Scanner, Sweet Home 3D for ocassional use... just to name a few. Not to mention the ability to run scripts written in any of the many JVM languages like jython, JRuby, Scala and the like...
http://www.drdobbs.com/jvm/a-long-look-at-jvm-languages/240007765 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages
Just because you dont like Java it doesnt mean that nobody likes and uses OpenJDK. H*ck, last time I looked RedHat was one of the main contributors to it...
http://www.redhat.com/summit/2012/pdf/2012-DevDay-OpenJDK-Bhole.pdf ...they even trumpet its OpenJDK7 performance http://investors.redhat.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=754548
Even RedHat has its own JVM languaje that runs atop OpenJDK: Ceylon... FC
Excuse me? I am but a humble Fedora user. And I, personally, don't use or need Java in any form. As I said, as I recall, the powers in charge after much discussion and debate decided to leave it out of the ISO. But? It is still available for those of *you* that want it or need it.
If that *really* bothers you - then your bitch is with them.
Or? Like a man you could just deal with it. That's what I would do. instead of whining on this list if this was a problem for me.
Now. Please. Let this end here.