I am curious why the email announcements of Fedora updates come to me on Fedora-announce-list _after_ the updates show up on the mirror servers - often a day or more, it seems.
This is more than an idle concern, because my update procedure tries to make me chose whether or not to install updates before the informational posting is available that would help me decide. I would think the email ought to come out simultaneous with if not a little before the files themselves get posted.
Is there another place to raise such a concern?
Thanks for info!
Martin
Am Fr, den 03.12.2004 schrieb Martin um 3:23:
I am curious why the email announcements of Fedora updates come to me on Fedora-announce-list _after_ the updates show up on the mirror servers - often a day or more, it seems.
This is more than an idle concern, because my update procedure tries to make me chose whether or not to install updates before the informational posting is available that would help me decide. I would think the email ought to come out simultaneous with if not a little before the files themselves get posted.
Martin
You can't do it the "right" way so that nobody complains. If the Red Hat developers publish the announcement before update package is either on the mirror or even on the main server, there are questions and maybe complains that there should be a new package but none is to be seen on the server. The other way around, well, you wrote your mail ;)
Alexander
On Thursday 02 December 2004 10:29 pm, Alexander Dalloz wrote:
You can't do it the "right" way so that nobody complains. If the Red Hat developers publish the announcement before update package is either on the mirror or even on the main server, there are questions and maybe complains that there should be a new package but none is to be seen on the server. The other way around, well, you wrote your mail ;)
Don't you think guys that this question should be on www.fedorafaq.org? It will be a good candidate I think... and with this very same answer.
Jorge
On Friday 03 December 2004 10:23, Martin wrote:
I am curious why the email announcements of Fedora updates come to me on Fedora-announce-list _after_ the updates show up on the mirror servers - often a day or more, it seems.
How would you feel if the announcement came but you couldn't get the updates?
On Debian I tend not to worry to much about the announcement; on machines that matter I apt-get update apt-get -yud upgrade daily and watch that mail. On taroon (RHEL 3 beta) I was on broadband and did that same sort of thing with up2date.
I upgrade pretty much automatically, but I like to see what's happening.
I guess there are two schools of thought on this.
If you automatically update without seeing why (ie reading the email), you run the small risk of breaking something. Kernel updates, particularly.
On the other hand, if you wait to read what it is that you're updating, you risk being exposed to some network evil.
All in all, I'd rather see the announcements coming out as soon as the update files are in the pipeline, with the explanation that the updates will be showing up on your favorite mirror RSN. Sitting on the info is playing Big Brother. It is going to cause problems somewhere sometime.
-Martin
--- John Summerfield debian@herakles.homelinux.org wrote:
On Friday 03 December 2004 10:23, Martin wrote:
I am curious why the email announcements of Fedora updates come to me on Fedora-announce-list _after_
the
updates show up on the mirror servers - often a
day or
more, it seems.
How would you feel if the announcement came but you couldn't get the updates?
On Debian I tend not to worry to much about the announcement; on machines that matter I apt-get update apt-get -yud upgrade daily and watch that mail. On taroon (RHEL 3 beta) I was on broadband and did that same sort of thing with up2date.
I upgrade pretty much automatically, but I like to see what's happening.
--
Cheers John Summerfield tourist pics: http://environmental.disaster.cds.merseine.nu/
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On Thursday 02 December 2004 10:45 pm, Martin wrote:
If you automatically update without seeing why (ie reading the email), you run the small risk of breaking something. Kernel updates, particularly.
Well if you notice that there are any updates (but no email so far) the correct (wise) thing to do would be to download the rpm and query it's changelog (to find out what's the update for).
On the other hand, if you wait to read what it is that you're updating, you risk being exposed to some network evil.
Right, but that would be just for security fixes which are about to (hardly) 10 to 20% of the updates released. The vast majority are bug fixes and/or improvements.
I think there could be like a happy-medium between the two obvious solutions. They could send out security-related announcemnts right-away advising, just like you say, that you the packages will show up eventually in your mirrors...and then we could have the other announcements (non-security related) be done like they are doing now (2 or 3 days after they're placed).
Conclusion: AT LEAST for security fixes, there should be immediate announcements.
Jorge
On Thursday 02 December 2004 20:45, Martin wrote:
Sitting on the info is playing Big Brother. It is going to cause problems somewhere sometime.
I wouldn't get your hopes up that it's a vast developer conspiracy although I'm sure that'll make good copy. Most likely, like everything else in life, the paper work is the last thing to be done. From what I've seen it's more likely the developers are just getting the job done, and then, if they remember, send out the change announcement.
Regards, Mike Klinke
On Friday 03 December 2004 11:39, Mike Klinke wrote:
I wouldn't get your hopes up that it's a vast developer conspiracy although I'm sure that'll make good copy. Most likely, like everything else in life, the paper work is the last thing to be done. From what I've seen it's more likely the developers are just getting the job done, and then, if they remember, send out the change announcement.
I'm sure there's a procedure in place, and that he procedure is what happens now.
Updates get pushed when ready. Once the mirrors have time to get synchronised (probably 24 hours or so), the notices go out.
You _cannot_ get them, notices or no, until they're ready and distributed. You can get updates without notices if you go looking for them. OS X an Windows users do it all the time. Not enough Windows users true.
On Thursday 02 December 2004 22:36, John Summerfield wrote:
I'm sure there's a procedure in place, and that he procedure is what happens now.
Updates get pushed when ready. Once the mirrors have time to get synchronised (probably 24 hours or so), the notices go out.
You _cannot_ get them, notices or no, until they're ready and distributed. You can get updates without notices if you go looking for them. OS X an Windows users do it all the time. Not enough Windows users true.
From discussions in the past few weeks there is a desire for a
procedure but it has been a bit hap-hazzard at best. There is some effort, though, to get the announcements out recently so we'll just have to see how it goes.
Regards, Mike Klinke