On Saturday 13 March 2010 03:47:52 pm Craig White wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 15:26 -0800, Russell Miller wrote:
> > We are *not* irrelevant. I'm not, and neither is the OP, and the
> > attitude
> > that says we are is the *problem*.
>
> ----
> #1 - mentioning Red Hat or the NYSE on a Fedora list is irrelevant.
>
That's true. But I don't recall you using the pronoun "You" to refer to Red
Hat or the NYSE. But I guess that's not really relevant either.
> Relevance is lending a hand to make things better. Bug reporting,
> submitting better documentation, helping others solve problems. I'm
> sorry that you had problems submitting bug reports but I can see that a
> typical user will have difficulty identifying which software is the
> problem and how to make a bug report but try reporting a bug to Apple or
> Microsoft or any other software company and tell me how well you make
> out. The fact is that open source software actually permits the users
> entry/access to the process and problem resolution paths but cannot
> ensure that the user actually understands his role.
>
I am not a typical user. I have been a sysadmin for 12 years. I have a
general idea of how a good bug reporting and triaging system should work.
When I submitted a bug that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt was a bug and
got told it wasn't, I wasn't very happy. When I made my case that, yes, it is
a bug, and got told that my report wasn't valid because I put it in the wrong
place, I wasn't very happy either. I understand that it's run by volunteers
but at some point even volunteers should be able to move a bug from one
package to another, it takes the same amount of time as closing it.
> There are people who light candles and people who curse the darkness.
>
Yes, and there are people who light candles and have them blown out
repeatedly. After a certain amount of time, the candles stop getting lit.
> Marcel is like a broken record - rehashing the same things he groused
> about last week as if yet another 2000 words on the same topics is going
> to be any less of a waste of electrons this week. But I didn't say that
> he was irrelevant or that everything he said was irrelevant. His rants
> are irrelevant.
>
I see, I somehow stuck myself in the middle of a flame war. Fair enough. I
follow the list in a middling manner and only read things that pop out at me.
> Yes, Fedora is imperfect... it's also an imperfect world. If he or
> anyone else needs help with a specific issue, they are almost always
> handled expeditiously. But if he or someone else wants to draw big
> picture issues, they should at least understand something about open
> source development, software packaging, the origins, the process, etc.
> Otherwise, they are irrelevant.
>
Never in my case. Make of it what you will.
But the person who said "if you're so unsatisfied with fedora find another one
you like" may have a point after all. I'm not unsatisfied with Fedora, but who
knows, maybe ubuntu, etc., has a better community. Shrug. It's a futile
conversation anyway. My lone voice isn't going to change anything.
--Russell
> Craig