I've just upgraded from F34 to F35 and have troubles with KDE vs Wayland and X11.
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many) windows and tabs.
X11 messes up konsole, the KDE terminal emulator. When typing onto the screen, not displaying text generated by an application, the test appears slowly and with many strange artifacts. It looks like the text appears on one interlace and then gradually gets better; the text takes about 500 msec to recover; the same thing happens with window decorations when I mouse over them. I have attempted to record screen behavior using simplescreenrecorder, but when I start it, the problem goes away.
Right now I'm using X11 with gnome-terminal, which doesn't show the problem.
System is: Operating System: Fedora Linux 35 KDE Plasma Version: 5.23.4 KDE Frameworks Version: 5.89.0 Qt Version: 5.15.2 Kernel Version: 5.15.12-200.fc35.x86_64 (64-bit) Graphics Platform: X11 Processors: 8 × Intel® Core™ i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz Memory: 15.5 GiB of RAM Graphics Processor: Mesa Intel® HD Graphics 4600
On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:00 -0800, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
X11 messes up konsole, the KDE terminal emulator. When typing onto the screen, not displaying text generated by an application, the test appears slowly and with many strange artifacts. It looks like the text appears on one interlace and then gradually gets better; the text takes about 500 msec to recover; the same thing happens with window decorations when I mouse over them. I have attempted to record screen behavior using simplescreenrecorder, but when I start it, the problem goes away.
The highlighted text is actually not true. The problem occurs with many KDE applications, e.g. kpat and simplescreenrecorder. Starting simplescreenrecorder does make the artifacts stop.
On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many) windows and tabs.
It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal. It's likely the OOM killer.
On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:19 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many) windows and tabs.
It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal. It's likely the OOM killer.
Possible though not likely. I just started firefox and ksysguardm still running X11 and gnome-terminal. The situation is: Memory 5.9 GiB / 15.5 GiB Swap 0 B / 32.0 GiB
Also looked for action from OOM (F35 was installed on 2022-01-02 about 19:30): $ journalctl --since 2022-01-01 | grep -i 'killed process' $
On the other hand: $ journalctl --since yesterday | grep -i wayland Jan 04 05:39:45 amito org_kde_powerdevil[79877]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito polkit-kde-authentication-agent-1[79876]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kactivitymanagerd[79883]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kded5[79965]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kdeconnectd[79956]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito unknown[79959]: Lost connection to Wayland compositor. Jan 04 05:39:45 amito xdg-desktop-portal-kde[80214]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito konsole[80928]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito unknown[87054]: Lost connection to Wayland compositor. Jan 04 05:39:45 amito baloorunner[88772]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kwalletd5[99930]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito akonadi_kalarm_resource[80438]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito akonadi_kalarm_resource[80427]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito akonadi_kalarm_resource[80439]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito akonadi_archivemail_agent[80419]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kgpg[80023]: The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die? ...
On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:19 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many) windows and tabs.
It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal. It's likely the OOM killer.
BTW: KDE is now better. No artifacts running X11, after nothing but investigating and replying to your email. Go figure...
On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 at 06:54, Jonathan Ryshpan jonrysh@pacbell.net wrote:
On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:19 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many) windows and tabs.
It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal. It's likely the OOM killer.
BTW: KDE is now better. No artifacts running X11, after nothing but investigating and replying to your email. Go figure...
Intel is no longer supporting cards that old.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/intel_graphics as usual, lots of good detail
I have a similar vintage system that is mainly used for data transfers from firewire and old memory card formats, so I may not encounter edge cases with graphics using a low-end (small fan) nvidia card and nouveau. There are probably lots of old graphics cards gathering dust -- you could try ebay or a local computer users group.
On Thu, 2022-01-06 at 09:40 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 at 06:54, Jonathan Ryshpan jonrysh@pacbell.net wrote:
On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:19 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many) windows and tabs.
It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal. It's likely the OOM killer.
BTW: KDE is now better. No artifacts running X11, after nothing but investigating and replying to your email. Go figure...
Intel is no longer supporting cards that old.
A case of "planned obsolescence". My system is more than adequate for everything I need it to do: web surfing, email, videos, sys admin, a little development, etc. and nonetheless the CPU is no longer under supported. Oh well...
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/intel_graphics as usual, lots of good detail
I have a similar vintage system that is mainly used for data transfers from firewire and old memory card formats, so I may not encounter edge cases with graphics using a low-end (small fan) nvidia card and nouveau. There are probably lots of old graphics cards gathering dust -- you could try ebay or a local computer users group.
Thanks very much. It was hardware trouble and has been cured by the advice about "Tearing" in Archlinux.
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 at 14:46, Jonathan Ryshpan jonrysh@pacbell.net wrote:
On Thu, 2022-01-06 at 09:40 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
[...]
Intel is no longer supporting cards that old.
A case of "planned obsolescence".
Or partly human obsolescence: the staff who wrote the original drivers are no longer around and it doesn't make sense to train new people on hardware that isn't generating new revenue. There have been proposal to force vendors to release specifications when hardware reaches "end-of-support".so that users can maintain old systems. This also applies to things like farm tractors.
My system is more than adequate for everything I need it to do: web surfing, email, videos, sys admin, a little development, etc. and nonetheless the CPU is no longer under supported. Oh well...
In my case, I try to "future proof" software I use by running it on "bleeding edge" OS (Fedora, Debian unstable) and when practical, contributing patches to apps or libraries when stuff breaks.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/intel_graphics as usual, lots of good detail
I have a similar vintage system that is mainly used for data transfers from firewire and old memory card formats, so I may not encounter edge cases with graphics using a low-end (small fan) nvidia card and nouveau. There are probably lots of old graphics cards gathering dust -- you could try ebay or a local computer users group.
Thanks very much. It was hardware trouble and has been cured by the advice about "Tearing" in Archlinux.
Glad the community had a solution when the vendor did not. A lot of the software I use was originally developed on CDC and SGI systems, so it very careful about memory management and efficiency, so can run 100x faster on current hardware with as many parallel jobs (the workflows applied the same calculation to 1000's of input files, so trivially parallel) as the mass storage can handle.
On Sun, 2022-01-09 at 12:46 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
Or partly human obsolescence: the staff who wrote the original drivers are no longer around and it doesn't make sense to train new people on hardware that isn't generating new revenue. There have been proposal to force vendors to release specifications when hardware reaches "end-of-support".so that users can maintain old systems. This also applies to things like farm tractors.
I have to say that if I'm faced with okay hardware being let down by bad software, my inclination is not to buy replacement hardware from the same people.
There's various vendors with track records of releasing buggy gear, ostensibly with the notion of get it out before the competition does, and they'll worry about patching it up later. But they never do iron the bugs out.
Many years ago I remember reading about a court case regarding (I think it was a mainframe system), where the customer go so sick of failures and never ending patches, and yet still more bugs, that they sued (and won), arguing that they didn't believe being told that problems would be fixed with updates, that it was an outright lie.
I've had various bits of hardware designed for Windows (back when I used to use it over 20 years ago), that was always crapping out on the OS it was designed for. There may have been one driver update released, maybe two, they didn't fix it. The expectation was that you'd just buy something new in a couple of years time.
Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
I've just upgraded from F34 to F35 and have troubles with KDE vs Wayland and X11.
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many) windows and tabs.
X11 messes up konsole, the KDE terminal emulator. When typing onto the screen, not displaying text generated by an application, the test appears slowly and with many strange artifacts. It looks like the text appears on one interlace and then gradually gets better; the text takes about 500 msec to recover; the same thing happens with window decorations when I mouse over them. I have attempted to record screen behavior using simplescreenrecorder, but when I start it, the problem goes away.
Likely mesa issue, fixed by https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2022-d9c9d567ce
See also bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2036600
-- Rex