I have two different F-18 installs to deal with.
F-18 beta upgraded almost daily, once more just now, do I need to do any more than that?
and
This F-17 XFCE Live install which is configured the way I want it and upgraded also. I downloaded both F-18 Live spins for XFCE and Gnome. I tried "preupgrade" long ago a few times and it never worked so I hesitate to try again. Can I upgrade from one of this mornings live spin downloads, will it offer that option? Or will I be better off doing a new install and suffering with the reconfiguration work?
Any advice appreciated,
Bob
On Tue, 2013-01-15 at 11:09 -0500, Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA wrote:
I have two different F-18 installs to deal with. F-18 beta upgraded almost daily, once more just now, do I need to do any more than that?
No.
and This F-17 XFCE Live install which is configured the way I want it and upgraded also. I downloaded both F-18 Live spins for XFCE and Gnome. I tried "preupgrade" long ago a few times and it never worked so I hesitate to try again. Can I upgrade from one of this mornings live spin downloads, will it offer that option? Or will I be better off doing a new install and suffering with the reconfiguration work?
Preupgrade has been deprecated for F18. Use Fedup (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedUp). As always, it's a good idea to read the Release Notes (http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Release_Notes/sect-Releas...)
poc
On 01/15/2013 04:09 PM, Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA wrote:
I have two different F-18 installs to deal with.
F-18 beta upgraded almost daily, once more just now, do I need to do any more than that?
and
This F-17 XFCE Live install which is configured the way I want it and upgraded also. I downloaded both F-18 Live spins for XFCE and Gnome. I tried "preupgrade" long ago a few times and it never worked so I hesitate to try again. Can I upgrade from one of this mornings live spin downloads, will it offer that option? Or will I be better off doing a new install and suffering with the reconfiguration work?
Any advice appreciated,
Your F-18 box will be fine as it is; just carry on as normal (although you may want to investigate your sources list).
As for your other box, check out:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading
for upgrade options & :
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Release_Notes/
for the full release notes.
Cheers,
Phil...
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
Preupgrade has been deprecated for F18. Use Fedup (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedUp). As always, it's a good idea to read the Release Notes (http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Release_Notes/sect-Releas...)
Typical Fedora, just when preupdate was finally working well, a whole new thing to debug by using in production. Good choice of names, though, describes my feeling perfectly. ;-)
After using every release from four on, 17 still looks like the sweet spot between functionality and stability, hope this one is in the ballpark.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Bill Davidsen davidsen@tmr.com wrote:
After using every release from four on, 17 still looks like the sweet spot between functionality and stability, hope this one is in the ballpark.
Uhhh... wow. Your experiences are very different to mine. I've used every RH and then Fedora release since RH3.0.3 and for me F17 is the single worst release to date. It's both lacking functionality *and* it's unstable. I'm really hoping F18 is much better.
Tet
Am 15.01.2013 18:11, schrieb Tethys:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Bill Davidsen davidsen@tmr.com wrote:
After using every release from four on, 17 still looks like the sweet spot between functionality and stability, hope this one is in the ballpark.
Uhhh... wow. Your experiences are very different to mine. I've used every RH and then Fedora release since RH3.0.3 and for me F17 is the single worst release to date. It's both lacking functionality *and* it's unstable. I'm really hoping F18 is much better.
where was F17 unstable?
running in production since months for any sort of servers, routers and gateways without a single crash
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 17:11:15 +0000 Tethys tethys@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Bill Davidsen davidsen@tmr.com wrote:
After using every release from four on, 17 still looks like the sweet spot between functionality and stability, hope this one is in the ballpark.
Uhhh... wow. Your experiences are very different to mine. I've used every RH and then Fedora release since RH3.0.3 and for me F17 is the single worst release to date. It's both lacking functionality *and* it's unstable. I'm really hoping F18 is much better.
Tet
Are you both confusing Releases with Desktops ? The only time I ever had problems with Fedora @ base @ X, is with Rawhide\Branched on occasion.
Stable releases never a problem.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
where was F17 unstable?
running in production since months for any sort of servers, routers and gateways without a single crash
Different environment, different experiences. My work desktop, running an up to date F17, hangs solid pretty regularly (once a day or so), to the point where even magic sysrq doesn't respond and I need to confiscate its power to get it restarted. Hell, the F17 installer won't even boot on it, and it's not as if it's some obscure home built machine - it's a Dell. My home desktop, also on F17, is slightly better but still problematic. I can't print from it, for example. SlowKeys randomly turn on for both machines. Not insurmountable (once you've worked out what the problem is), but it shouldn't be doing that out of the box. I've had numerous other problems on both machines. F17 hasn't quite pushed me to another distribution, but it's close. I suspect if F18 is as bad, I'll finally jump ship.
Tet
Gentle People:
My suggestion: Use Fedora 14 and immediately load all updates.
Results from my testing: Fedora 17 x64 - Not usable way to many bugs. Fedora 17 x32 - Barely usable, not ready for prime time!
I am staying with Fedora 14!
I would suggest that the Fedora Group stop all work on new versions and exclusively focus on debugging Fedora 17!
Thomas Dineen
On 1/15/2013 9:08 AM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
Preupgrade has been deprecated for F18. Use Fedup (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedUp). As always, it's a good idea to read the Release Notes (http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Release_Notes/sect-Releas...)
Typical Fedora, just when preupdate was finally working well, a whole new thing to debug by using in production. Good choice of names, though, describes my feeling perfectly. ;-)
After using every release from four on, 17 still looks like the sweet spot between functionality and stability, hope this one is in the ballpark.
On 01/15/2013 05:29 PM, Thomas Dineen wrote:
Gentle People:
My suggestion: Use Fedora 14 and immediately load all updates. Results from my testing: Fedora 17 x64 - Not usable way to many bugs.
Not sure what this has to do with F18 install methods but I'm using F17 x86_64 daily in production (development laptop but it's a crucial environment for me and _has_ to work - it does).
Bug reports are more useful than "it doesn't work".
Regards, Bryn.
On 01/15/2013 06:29 PM, Thomas Dineen wrote:
Gentle People:
My suggestion: Use Fedora 14 and immediately load all updates.
At the risk of feeding the trolls... Which updates? It has been EOL for ages, has not received (security) updates in ages and has more security holes than swiss cheese. IMO this recommendation can not be taken seriously and releases that are EOL should NEVER be used.
Regards, Patrick
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:29:05 -0800 Thomas Dineen tdineen@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Gentle People:
My suggestion: Use Fedora 14 and immediately load all updates.
Never suggest to anyone that they use an unsupported version. As they can be many security issues.
I would suggest that the Fedora Group stop all work on new
versions and exclusively focus on debugging Fedora 17!
That's not what Fedora is about.
Am 15.01.2013 18:24, schrieb Tethys:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
where was F17 unstable?
running in production since months for any sort of servers, routers and gateways without a single crash
Different environment, different experiences. My work desktop, running an up to date F17, hangs solid pretty regularly (once a day or so), to the point where even magic sysrq doesn't respond and I need to confiscate its power to get it restarted. Hell, the F17 installer won't even boot on it, and it's not as if it's some obscure home built machine - it's a Dell. My home desktop, also on F17, is slightly better but still problematic. I can't print from it, for example. SlowKeys randomly turn on for both machines. Not insurmountable (once you've worked out what the problem is), but it shouldn't be doing that out of the box. I've had numerous other problems on both machines. F17 hasn't quite pushed me to another distribution, but it's close. I suspect if F18 is as bad, I'll finally jump ship.
sounds like desktop and/or hardware related
KDE4
homeserver 3.6.11-1.fc17.x86_64 - HP Elite 8300 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16 GB RAM workstation 3.6.11-1.fc17.x86_64 - HP Elite 8200 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16 GB RAM
both rock solid with SandyBridge / IvyBridge graphics and active kwin 3D effects all the time
Am 15.01.2013 18:29, schrieb Thomas Dineen:
Gentle People:
My suggestion: Use Fedora 14 and immediately load all updates. Results from my testing: Fedora 17 x64 - Not usable way to many bugs. Fedora 17 x32 - Barely usable, not ready for prime time! I am staying with Fedora 14!
DO WHAT YOU WANT BUT DO NOT SUGGEST OTHERS USE A LONG TIME NOT SUPPORTED OS AND CONNECT IT TO THE INTERNET!
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:29:05 -0800 Thomas Dineen tdineen@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Gentle People:
My suggestion: Use Fedora 14 and immediately load all updates.
Which leaves you with a system that is dangerously insecure
If you want to run a long term Fedora like system from that era you want to be running Centos if it is network connected.
I guess thats why you post using
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2
;)
Alan
Reindl Harald:
I would rather have something unsupported that works than something that dose not work!
Quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
When a customer says you have a quality problem then you have one.
Stop wasting you time and mine screaming at me and fix you bugs!!!!!!
Until then its F14 all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas Dineen
On 1/15/2013 9:40 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 15.01.2013 18:29, schrieb Thomas Dineen:
Gentle People:
My suggestion: Use Fedora 14 and immediately load all updates. Results from my testing: Fedora 17 x64 - Not usable way to many bugs. Fedora 17 x32 - Barely usable, not ready for prime time! I am staying with Fedora 14!
DO WHAT YOU WANT BUT DO NOT SUGGEST OTHERS USE A LONG TIME NOT SUPPORTED OS AND CONNECT IT TO THE INTERNET!
Am 15.01.2013 19:49, schrieb Thomas Dineen:
Reindl Harald:
I would rather have something unsupported that works than something that dose not work!
what YOU want does nobody interest in the context YOU SUGGEST doing your mistakes to other persons
and as long you are running windows stop trolling here! User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1;rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2
AGAIN:
DO WHAT YOU WANT BUT DO NOT SUGGEST OTHERS USE A LONG TIME NOT SUPPORTED OS AND CONNECT IT TO THE INTERNET!
Quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
YOU had maybe a problem with GNOME3 who cares?
who telled you that whatever you suggested to use F14 is using GNOME at all? /me is using KDE on Linux since version 1.0 (year 199x) and never touch GNOME
When a customer says you have a quality problem then you have one.
bruahaha - in this generality nonsense
Stop wasting you time and mine screaming at me and fix you bugs!!!!!!
listen stupid troll: i am a USER, these are not MY bigs and the only one who is wasting anybodys time are trolls like you!
Until then its F14 all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thomas Dineen
On 1/15/2013 9:40 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 15.01.2013 18:29, schrieb Thomas Dineen:
Gentle People:
My suggestion: Use Fedora 14 and immediately load all updates. Results from my testing: Fedora 17 x64 - Not usable way to many bugs. Fedora 17 x32 - Barely usable, not ready for prime time! I am staying with Fedora 14!
DO WHAT YOU WANT BUT DO NOT SUGGEST OTHERS USE A LONG TIME NOT SUPPORTED OS AND CONNECT IT TO THE INTERNET!
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Bryn M. Reeves bmr@redhat.com wrote:
Bug reports are more useful than "it doesn't work".
I agree. That's why most of my problems are logged in bugzilla. But they generally follow the standard Fedora bug lifecycle: bug is created, then ignored for two releases, then closed because it's for an unsupported release.
Tet
On 01/15/2013 07:49 PM, Thomas Dineen wrote:
When a customer says you have a quality problem then you have one.
Maybe you should ask for your money back...
Stop wasting you time and mine screaming at me and fix you bugs!!!!!!
This is a *community* project and since you are using this wonderful free distribution, you are part of said community. If you had a problem with F17, did you report it? Did you file a bugzilla? Did you try to help those with the ability to help you? It's easy to say something doesn't work but you do realize it's a two way street right? Trolling does not result in a solution or bugfix. Filing bugs and helping out will.
Regards, Patrick
On 01/16/2013 01:29 AM, Thomas Dineen wrote:
Gentle People:
My suggestion: Use Fedora 14 and immediately load all updates. Results from my testing: Fedora 17 x64 - Not usable way to many bugs. Fedora 17 x32 - Barely usable, not ready for prime time! I am staying with Fedora 14! I would suggest that the Fedora Group stop all work on new versions
and exclusively focus on debugging Fedora 17!
You are free to suggest whatever you want.
I am also free to point out that I feel your suggestion to be misguided and based on your singular experience for which you provide *no* specifics.
On this particular system whose hardware has remained unchanged, except for the video card (RIP), I've run F14-32, F15-32, F16-32, F17-64, and now F18-64. I moved to F18 during the pre-release phase when my video card died. Except for a problem with nouveau, for which I've filed a bugzilla, I've no major problems.
I should also point out that if the situation were as dire as you suggest this list would be swapped with people seeking help. You'll notice that isn't the case.