On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 25 August 2017 at 10:06, Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu> wrote:
>> Neal Gompa wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Matthew Miller
>>> <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 08:25:22AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
>>>>> This is a stupid idea because it introduces "magic" into
picking the
>>>>> type of thing installed. It also goes against how we typically do
>>>>
>>>> Neal, this idea is the idea of other Fedora contributors who have put a
>>>> lot of thought into it. Please refrain from childish language like
>>>> "stupid". I'm not saying that this is "offensive"
or anything, but I
>>>> hope for a higher level of discourse in Fedora. There's no need for
>>>> insults. You have a technical argument; please stick to that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've already turned down my feelings about it several notches. But at
>>> least you noticed what I said by the words I chose. That's was the
>>> whole point.
>>>
>>> I'm going to be blunt about how I feel about it and present my
>>> technical argument. Being purely technical tends to lead to being
>>> ignored. You noticed because I didn't do that.
>>
>> I agree with Matthew on this one. You got noticed, yes, but for *very* much
>> the wrong reasons... which may backfire in the long run: your non-
>> inflamatory/technical feedback will indeed have higher risk of not being
>> considered seriously.
>>
>
> I'm extremely frustrated by how much half-baked-ness has been going on
> in the last couple of months. Schedule shrinkage, features getting
> cut, this modularity thing being implemented in a way that's looking
I am going to say the following as a guide for other people in the future.
If you had taken the time to explain this in the first place versus
calling it stupid, I would have paid attention. This clearly explains
why you are frustrated and what the problems you are seeing in details
which can be dealt with. The "stupid" may seem to be a great
distillation of all those problems but it also comes across too many
times as "I am scoring points on the elementary playground" so yes it
gets initial attention but people just want to punch you in the face
versus listen to what is making you so angry/upset.
To be clearer. Your original email just made me upset at *you* and
pretty much shut me down from wanting to see it from your point of
view. Reading this has made me realize that many of my current
frustrations with how everything is and yours are the same and I can
agree with many of the points. Even to the following though I don't
know what DID is (Developers in Distress?)
DID == Dissociative Identity Disorder. Also known as multiple
personality disorder (MPD).
Though Developers in Distress works too. :)
But here's the thing... Why are you listening to me now about this, as
opposed to the many other times I brought it up when they were smaller
and more manageable issues to be resolved early? Even Matt knew of
several of the problems that wound up happening because *I told him*
in person several months ago. I *detailed* exactly what services would
break when we did this, and how many workflows would be busted. I've
told other people that we don't have anything meaningful to replace
these things, and that no one even *knows* what the heck PDC does
(which somehow replaces this, maybe?), except maybe Adam Williamson.
It's not like logging into the bloody thing gets you anything useful
either.
Why do I have to have to rip my hair out in frustration (and those who
met me in person know that's a lot to rip out!) before someone sits up
and pays attention?
Why does everything have to go to hell first?
It's very clear that there's no point in evaluating things and telling
people what you're breaking before you break it, because no one cares.
On the flip side, actually trying to be proactive about things goes
nowhere too (c.f. Rust and releng). It feels like there's no point to
even trying to work with these groups of people anymore, because they
*don't care*.
I don't know what you want from me anymore... And apparently there are
others that feel the same, judging by some of the conversations I've
had on various channels with folks.
--
真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth!