On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 05:34:31PM -0800, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
On 12/17/2015 05:27 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 04:13:06PM -0800, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
>>On 12/17/2015 01:43 AM, Harald Hoyer wrote:
>>>For docker containers, or containers, which don't want systemd, the
current
>>>"Requires: systemd" in a lot of packages is preventing building a
minimal image.
>>>
>>>To improve the situation, we could make use of the new rpm weak
dependencies.
>>>So the
>>>
>>>Requires(post): systemd
>>>Requires(preun): systemd
>>>Requires(postun): systemd
>>>
>>>would become
>>>
>>>Recommends: systemd
>>>OrderWithRequires(post): systemd
>>>OrderWithRequires(preun): systemd
>>>OrderWithRequires(postun): systemd
>>>
>>>With this in place, kickstart files could omit systemd.
>>>
>>>The downside is:
>>>- if systemd is installed afterwards, the %post scripts do not trigger
>>>- packages, which need systemd-tmpfiles or systemd-sysusers could not be
converted
>>>
>>>If systemd is removed before the other packages, I don't see a problem.
>>>There are only leftovers in /etc/systemd.
>>>
>>>To prevent having a non-bootable system (not container), we could let the
>>>kernel.spec have a Requires on systemd.
>>>
>>>Comments? Please discuss.
>>
>>I haven't seen a lot of downside brought up in this thread. If the
>>only objections people have is that it doesn't facilitate their
>>personal use cases those don't seem like real objections. Is
>>anybody going to be really negatively impacted by such a change?
>>
>>For my part I'd like to see this happen, not just for packages
>>requiring systemd, but for all packages where "Requires" is really
>>stronger than necessary. Now that we have soft dependencies it
>>would be nice to go through and move to Recommends where software
>>continues to function in some reduced capacity.
>
>For some packages "reduced capacity" because of lack of systemd.rpm
>means "doesn't even get started as expected" or "crashes on
>start with permission errors" or "cannot write logs" or similar.
>Like Lennart and Neil said, utilities provided by systemd.rpm are the
>basis which allows many things to "just work". This is so obvious
>that it is assumed implicitly in this disussion, and it's hardly
>"personal use cases".
If the software crashes on start with permission error that's not
really working in a reduced capacity.
Exactly. So Required(post/pre/preun):systemd cannot currently be
changed to Recommmends, at least in the general case.
Zbyszek