On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:45 AM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Andreas Tunek <andreas.tunek(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> How do you fix it if you can't install the release? Do you
make a new
> release with all the testing again (to make sure you do not have other
> regression bugs)?
Anaconda has updates.img, which might be usable post-release. Barring
that, there are the update respins that other community members do.
Pretending those don't exist seems silly.
The silly pretense I see is the notion there's an idea how to do this,
let alone a policy or procedure in place.
What's in place right now is a release blocking criterion that was not
being met, so the release was blocked. The criterion is not a secret
or new, the process is not secret or new, yet somehow there's an 'oh
shit we're blocking the entire release just for Macs?!' reaction, as
if there's something fundamentally different compared to any other
time we've had a last minute blocker bug that only affects a minority.
Because of the monumental testing that happens, there's a really good
chance a last minute blocker ends up affecting only a minority. That
is how the process works. All you have to do is read the list of
release criteria and realize that it's a very consensual process where
an affected minority can block the entire release. Unsurprising. Not
I also think it's a silly pretense that we'd be having this
conversation if the exact same problem happened with Windows dual
boot. There'd be no serious proposal to drop Windows dual boot as a
release blocking criterion.
To test that hypothesis, I propose a new policy that requires 100% of
test cases which are attached to a release blocking criterion, shall
have been performed by some milestone, perhaps sometime between beta
GA and final freeze. If the test hasn't been done, the applicable
criterion is put in a one cycle abeyance, i.e. bugs found to violate
the suspended criterion will not be accepted as blockers for final for
Another possibility is that maybe the Mac and Windows criterion should
be beta milestones. QA always says nothing prevents earlier testing,
but in reality a bunch of final tests don't happen until well after
final freeze, it's just the way it goes in Fedoraland.
>> Lastly, support is a very loaded word, particularly in the context of
>> a community driven project. We actually do not have an x86 equivalent
>> of the ARM supported-boards list, so it's completely random as to what
>> laptops and desktops are tested and prioritized. That might be
>> something to focus on going forward.
> It has been in the release critera that you should be able to install
> on macs and it has worked for a very long time. If you are going to
> remove that support you should really let people know in advance (not
> a week before release).
Again, nobody is saying "remove support". We're saying "fix it
The blocker hammer is what's been meant by support for a long time
now. There is no mechanism for supporting a thing and fixing it later.
When it's not important to block on, it doesn't get fixed.