Hi,
On Monday 22 July 2013 20:33:32 Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Sun, 21.07.13 01:50, Oron Peled (oron(a)actcom.co.il) wrote:
> OK, I won't count mailx and mutt because we talk about different audience,
> should we open bug-reports for the rest? (kmail? evolution?)
Goog luck filing bugs against Thunderbird, GMail and Zimbra to add
support for local mail queue reading...
Hmmm... I didn't know any of them was installed by *default*.
After all, the issue is *default* setup, isn't it?
[bit-off-topic: unlike the others you mentioned, Thunderbird is a local MUA.
Not being able to process any local mailbox (mbox/maildir/whatever)
was the primary reason I never used it -- I cannot afford loosing
almost 20 years of email history, much less convert it to some HTML
based private format]
> Cron was already mentioned, but every one seem to ignore the
fact that
> regular users don't have permission to read system logs.
journald actually splits out user logs and use filesystem ACLs to ensure
that the user gets read access to his own logs. This doesn't work for
syslog (and also not if cron first collects all logs and then logs them
as root).
[thanks for referring to this issue. In a separate sub-thread I complained
about not being addressed before seeing this mail]
There are two issues however:
* The log-splitting of journald is really nice feature. But it doesn't
work for cron:
$ echo '* * * * * /bin/echo "Test output from cron"' | \
crontab '-' # than wait a minute
$ journalctl # only shows crontab, not the cron output
$ su -
# journalctl # Cron output is properly shown.
So this issue is still outstanding (but I'll bet you knew that)
* Logs are inherently line-oriented (which is very good for their
intended use case). However, many cron-jobs produce various reports
which are multi-line in their nature -- not a very good fit.
IMO a reasonable path may be:
* Not installing MTA at all for the *minimal* case.
* Install MTA for the default case (especially desktops).
* In that case, no SMTP port listening is needed. The default use
case is about the ability to deliver messages by piping them
to the MTA. No application/tool that I know of, tries to notify
by sending to STMP on localhost (am I wrong here?)
* Automatic mail-alias of root to the installing user will go a long
way to make it more visible/useful.
* Adding local mailbox as default configuration of MUA's (at least
those installed by default for desktops) is even better.
Bye,
--
Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492
oron(a)actcom.co.il
http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron
Linux: If you're not careful, you might actually learn something.
-- Allen Wong