On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:26:14AM -0400, Bastien Nocera wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:30:31AM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Bastien Nocera
<bnocera(a)redhat.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was
just
> > > >> closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX.
> > > >>
> > > >> suggested swap for laptop seems low
> > > >>
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472
> > > >>
> > > >> I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low
default
> > > >> swap
> > > >> size.
> > > >
> > > > This isn't the way to fix it. The hibernation file/partition
should
> > > > really be independent
> > > > of swap, because 1) you can't be sure how much swap will actually
be
> > > > used
> > > > by the applications
> > > > so you can't be sure you'll ever have enough swap to save the
RAM 2)
> > > > Too
> > > > much swap and the
> > > > (lack of) interactivity will make you want to advocate physical
> > > > violence
> > > > when your machine
> > > > is unusable for an hour because of a hungry Javascript in your 50th
> > > > Firefox tab.
> > >
> > > Windows and OS X both use swapfiles rather than swap partition, and a
> > > sleep image file rather than a partition. OS X's swapfiles are
> > > dynamically created on demand in variable size increments.
> > I think the problem is in the ways filesystems are implemented. The
> > fs has to be mounted to access the swap file, and this can change the
> > fs, even with a read-only mount. Because we don't have
> > really-read-only fs mounting, we need to support swap-as-partition, so
> > we might just as well use it by default.
> >
> > > Both OS's have a feature that I find invaluable on a laptop which is
> > > the automatic switch from suspend-to-RAM to suspend-to-disk.
> > Yes, integrating with firmware would be great. So far this hasn't been
> > hapenning...
> > What we can do instead is use hybrid sleep. It's not smart at all,
> > and doesn't prevent your battery from draining completely, but it does
> > protect
> > your data.
> >
> > Systemd supports hybrid-sleep as another option analogous to suspend
> > and hibernation, so for anything using systemd to suspend swithing to
> > hybrid should be trivial. Maybe we should make this an F23 goal:
> > - use hybrid-sleep from Gnome and other DE by default
>
> Hybrid sleep as offered in systemd still is just suspend + hibernation, and
> the way we do hibernation is broken.
Can you be more specific? Do you consider hibernate-to-swap-partition
unacceptable?
I think that conflating "memory-to-disk swap space" with "I can hibernate
my machine"
is unacceptable. We need a new partition type that Anaconda would setup, or
a whitelist of laptops with firmwares that support rapid start (and again, Anaconda
to set it up), or use a temporary file of any sort to store the hibernation data.
If my machine has 8 gigs of memory, I don't want to need 8 gigs plus of swap to be
able to hibernate it, when run away processes can make my machine unusable for hours
if they start hitting that swap.
> Hybrid sleep is already the default on low battery with newer
versions of
> UPower.
Yeah, I wasn't aware of that. This should be a good thing.
Zbyszek
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