On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 17:43, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le ven 03/10/2003 à 22:39, Sean Middleditch a écrit :
> On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 16:11, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> > > Perl/Python are co-installable with different versions, and thus are a
> > > different issue.
> >
> > Oh, great, a second Perl installation. As if Python/Python2 wouldn't
> > be enough already.
>
> If that's what it takes to make things work, then that's what it takes.
> I didn't say it was perfect, just that it solves the problem that users
> shouldn't ever have to rebuild to software, and users shouldn't have to
> run around figuring out what their system is to find the right package
> and deal with that mess. In a truly ideal world, Perl/Python/etc.
> wouldn't keep breaking compatibility so often. ~,^ Since that's *not*
> reality, the only solution left for sane packages (form a user's point
> of view again) is to let any necessary versions be installed so the
> user's apps just work and the user doesn't even have to think about OS
> versions or dependencies.
Don't make me laugh. The user cares about duplicate stuff too.
Before we build a serious infrastructure that enabled us to modularise
stuff someone would complain every other week we shipped java 1.3 jars
with our tomcat rpm (and those jars were necessary to run it with a 1.3
jvm, and didn't hurt when using a 1.4 jvm. But for a 1.4 user they were
redundant stuff and we got complains).
Are you talking about users, or sysadmins/hackers? I'd doubt a user
would even know a jar file is, or their installed version of Java.
Certainly, every user I've dealt with recently (including a handful
friends and a number of coworkers) would have no clue; they can barely
remember their OS is "Microsoft Windows" and not "Compaq Explorer."
;-) (and no, that isn't an implication users are stupid, merely that
they often don't know much about computers. i can't keep the names of
various parts of a car engine straight, but that's only because i'm not
really familiar with it, and I don't really care in the least, so long
as it moves. just like many users don't care how the computer runs,
jsut that it works. and yes, that was a real example, not my usual
satirical exaggeration ;-)
Show me a repository with big fat packages that include all deps to be
standalone and I'll show you a repository no one wants to use. Users may
not all know the zen of packaging but it will only take a few long
downloads or stuffed disks to enlighten them.
All dependencies embedded aren't at all needed. Just the ones people
can't develop and/or package correctly. If things were developed using
sane release and maintenance practices, you'd never have need to ship a
dependency with an application. It's only when the dependency is
released/maintained in the usual inexperienced 13-year-old style that
you need to do that. ~,^
Cheers,
--
Sean Middleditch <elanthis(a)awesomeplay.com>
AwesomePlay Productions, Inc.