On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 12:58 PM Jeremy Cline <jeremy(a)jcline.org> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 12:11:56PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 04:34:55PM +0000, Jeremy Cline wrote:
> > I'd just like to say that I have found this thread very demoralizing. I
> > think Randy has valid points and has brought them up far more
> > respectfully than I could and I feel like it's being dismissed as
> > trolling. I think this has a very negative affect on people's
> > willingness to put their opinions out there and is going to lead to an
> > echo chamber.
>
> It's definitely gone of the rails, and I'm sorry. I didn't mean for that
to
> happen. I want to hear people's opinions even if they're dissenting.
>
> But, I still am having a hard time seeing the thing I quoted as a respectful
> approach. I avoided paraphrasing before, but I'm going to now, not to
> caricature what Randy said but to clarify how it sounds to me and what I'm
> reacting to. The message in entirety was:
>
> I've pointed out a few times that other distros have solved the "too
> fast, too slow" problem. In at least one case, as long ago as 2004. I
> see it as a solved problem and I don't understand why we are trying to
> solve it again.
>
> To, that isn't "hey, maybe you missed an elegant prior art we could
adapt".
> To me, it seems to say "this effort is a waste of time -- this problem is
> already solved".
>
> And mentioning "as long ago as 2004" seems ... well, like I said,
> inflammatory.
>
> This is not a respectful way to say this to the people who have put a lot of
> *years* into working on this problem and solving it in Fedora. Even if we
> take as given that other distros have solved the problem for their users, it
> being solved _there_ doesn't directly help us _here_. The work people did to
> get us to where we are now _does_.
>
I've seen Randy ask multiple times why Gentoo's approach won't work for
us, specifically, and I've seen zero responses (apologies if I've missed
them across all the threads).
I think I mentioned that it would be possible, as OpenPKG actually
worked this way.
The key for this would be improving the user-experience with
interacting with source RPMs and spec files with DNF. We've optimized
*heavily* for remote builds, but a good chunk of how Gentoo's
mechanism works is built around supporting local permutations. We just
don't have that fleshed out yet.
--
真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth!