On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 17:24 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> Can you point us to where any background discussion has taken
place
> with Upstart folks?
No, I cannot. Kay and I and a couple of others sat down at various LPC
and GUADEC and discussed what we would like to see in an init
system. And we had long discussions, but ultimately most of our ideas
were outright rejected by Scott, such as the launchd-style activation
and the cgroup stuff, two of the most awesome features in systemd
now. (That said, we actually managed to convince him on other points,
i.e. I believe we played a role in turning him from a D-Bus-hater into a
D-Bus-lover).
Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
We did sit down and discuss things, and you convinced me that
launchd-style activation was a useful thing to have. Then you went off
and wrote systemd anyway.
And it was Ryan Lortie who convinced me that D-Bus was the right way to
go very early on, the conversion of Upstart to D-Bus happened years ago
(Fedora is lagging behind on versions so only just got that).
So we have discussed this with Scott in much detail, and we have
followed his development for a longer time. But in the end I just
don't think Upstart is the right thing, and fundamentally flawed and
unlikely to change direction, which is why we chose to start anew, and
not just "fix" Upstart. For more about that just read my blog story.
Given that I have changed direction a couple of times with Upstart, and
have been swayed to different courses by a good argument, I refuse that
it's "unlikely to change direction" ;-)
I'm certainly more interested in getting Upstart *right* than in rushing
to get it finished by a certain date.
To be clear, I believe the reason you implemented systemd instead of
contributing help to Upstart is:
a) your personal distaste for Ubuntu and Canonical
b) your personal distaste for the copyright assignment policy (RedHat
have signed this agreement for Upstart fwiw)
c) your personal love of nih ;-)
I don't think that's a bad thing, I certainly share (c) in equal
measures <g>. I'm also not going to argue that Fedora shouldn't chose a
different init system to mine, that's not really my place to do so.
However I do dispute that I haven't been flexible wrt Upstart's design;
indeed I would claim that part of the reason development is slower than
the rapid against-the-wall pace of other projects, is that I'm too
flexible with its design ;-)
Scott
--
Scott James Remnant
scott(a)canonical.com