devel March 2004

devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

238 participants
275 discussions

A friendly reminder from translators
by Miloslav Trmač 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

Hello, when changing strings, please make sure that the translations at i18n.redhat.com are updated, both the .pot file and all .po files. Packages that currently have updated .pot files without the .po update: system-config-httpd, kudzu, specspo Thanks, Mirek

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version/release identification for packages
by Gene C. 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

There seems to be this desire to put oddball version/release identifiers for packages. First, in FC2-T1 there was util-linux 2.12pre-3 being updated with 2.12-4 but rpm and up2date consider the older package to be newer. Now, for FC1 the recent update for tcpdump has 3.7.2-7.1 being updated by 3/7/2-7.fc1.1 but (again) the older packages is considered newer (and the same is true for libpcap 0.7.2-7.1 being updated by 0.7.2-7.fc1.1). For folks just letting up2date figure out what needs to be updated, this is a major problem. Please stop doing this. -- Gene

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Fedora XFree86 and ATI Performance issues.
by ByteEnable 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

I've noticed that I only get like 500 fps with glxgears using Fedora's XFree. If I download 4.3 or 4.4 from XFree86.org I can get 1075 fps with the same hardware. Should I bugzilla this? Byte

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Fedora Core 2 Test 2 - delayed
by Bill Nottingham 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

We're encountering various issues that are causing us to delay the release of test2. We'd like to get as much exposure to SELinux as possible, and this means shipping test2 with SELinux in enforcing mode. However, there are still some subsystems that aren't quite ready for this, so we need to slide the release date some. The *current* projection is that the freeze will be on March 12, for availability on March 22. This date is only preliminary at this point, and may change. The schedule at: http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/schedule/ will be updated shortly. Bill

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Re: Pango development
by Leonard den Ottolander 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

Hello Owen, > After a bit of study, I think the bug that Leonard is something > I fixed last fall: > Fix one problem with iteration by chars (Part of > #89541, Mariano Suárez-Alvarez) I upgraded both glib2 and pango on this FC 1 system to 2.3.3-1 and 1.3.3-1 respectively, to see if it makes a difference. This fixes some issues, and it creates some new ones. The resize behaviour seems to have disappeared when copying/moving files with mc. Instead certain resize events are not always propagated correctly to the mc sessions, which makes that mc sessions have empty lines in the middle or at the bottom after resizing the gnome-terminal. I don't remember to have seen this before. Also I do again see the "funny characters" in the tab title and window title on some copy/move actions with mc. After the last pango upgrade they appeared only temporarily (being redrawn after the copy/move, but still visible after a crash of gnome-terminal), now they sometimes stay. Note that all these findings are somewhat premature as I just upgraded 30 minutes ago. I can send you screen shots if you want. I'll let you know if gnome-terminal crashes on me again. Maybe you should add yourself to the CC list of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=113284 as I recently recomponented that bug to gnome-terminal, and reowned it to Havoc. Leonard. -- mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research

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rawhide report: 20040302 changes
by Build System 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

New package ICAClient Citrix ICA Client for Unix New package memtest86+ Stand-alone memory tester for x86 and x86-64 computers Updated Packages: desktop-file-utils-0.4-2 ------------------------ * Mon Mar 01 2004 Dan Williams <dcbw(a)redhat.com> 0.4-2 - Fix RH #117201, initial comment fails validation - Add in, but do not use, Frederic Crozat's freedesktop.org menu-spec 0.8 patch docbook-style-xsl-1.65.0-1 -------------------------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Tim Waugh <twaugh(a)redhat.com> 1.65.0-1 - 1.65.0. firstboot-1.3.5-2 ----------------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Brent Fox <bfox(a)redhat.com> 1.3.5-2 - remove Requires on system-config-mouse glib2-2.3.5-1 ------------- * Tue Mar 02 2004 Mark McLoughlin <markmc(a)redhat.com> 2.3.5-1 - Update to 2.3.5 - Fix build on ppc64 - Disable make check on s390 as well - test-thread failing glibc-2.3.3-13 -------------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Jakub Jelinek <jakub(a)redhat.com> 2.3.3-13 - update from CVS gnome-media-2.5.4-1 ------------------- * Thu Feb 26 2004 Alexander Larsson <alexl(a)redhat.com> 2.5.4-1 - update to 2.5.4 groff-1.18.1-33 --------------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Thomas Woerner <twoerner(a)redhat.com> 1.18.1-33 - fixed nroff script: convert output to locale charmap hpoj-0.91-5 ----------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Tim Waugh <twaugh(a)redhat.com> 0.91-5 - Really fix init script start-up order (bug #117206). kernel-2.6.3-1.118 ------------------ * Mon Mar 01 2004 Dave Jones <davej(a)redhat.com> - Update to 2.6.4-rc1-bk2 - Limit dcache hash table size - "Fix" ACPI related random memory corruption on Thinkpads. - Warn on excessive sleeping in interrupt handlers kudzu-1.1.47-1 -------------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> 1.1.47-1 - fix dac960 probe (#116126, <heinz(a)auto.tuwien.ac.at>) less-382-2 ---------- * Tue Mar 02 2004 Karsten Hopp <karsten(a)redhat.de> 382-2 - use ncursesw if available * Sat Feb 14 2004 Karsten Hopp <karsten(a)redhat.de> 382-1 - new upstream version lvm2-2.00.08-4 -------------- * Thu Feb 19 2004 Stephen C. Tweedie <sct(a)redhat.com> 2.00.08-4 - Add sysfs filter patch - Allow non-root users to build RPM nautilus-media-0.5.3-1 ---------------------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Alexander Larsson <alexl(a)redhat.com> 0.5.3-1 - update to 0.5.3 openssh-3.6.1p2-32 ------------------ * Mon Mar 01 2004 Thomas Woerner <twoerner(a)redhat.com> 3.6.1p2-32 - fixed pie build pango-1.3.5-1 ------------- * Tue Mar 02 2004 Mark McLoughlin <markmc(a)redhat.com> 1.3.5-1 - Update to 1.3.5 policy-1.6-16 ------------- * Fri Feb 27 2004 Dan Walsh <dwalsh(a)redhat.com> 1.6-16 - First version of loosened policy * Fri Feb 27 2004 Dan Walsh <dwalsh(a)redhat.com> 1.6-15 - Add Russell's changes * Fri Feb 27 2004 Dan Walsh <dwalsh(a)redhat.com> 1.6-14 - add sysctl controls - Add firstboot and mdadm qt-3.3.1-0.1 ------------ * Mon Mar 01 2004 Than Ngo <than(a)redhat.com> 3.3.1-0.1 - update to 3.3.1 * Mon Feb 23 2004 Than Ngo <than(a)redhat.com> 3.3.0-0.4 - add fix for building with freetype 2.1.7 or newer rhythmbox-0.6.7-1 ----------------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Alexander Larsson <alexl(a)redhat.com> 0.6.7-1 - update to 0.6.7 rpmdb-fedora-1.90-0.20040302 ---------------------------- strace-4.5.2-1 -------------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Roland McGrath <roland(a)redhat.com> 4.5.2-1 - new upstream version, sched_* calls (#116990), show core flag (#112117) * Fri Feb 13 2004 Elliot Lee <sopwith(a)redhat.com> - rebuilt system-config-display-1.0.10-1 ------------------------------ * Mon Mar 01 2004 Brent Fox <bfox(a)redhat.com> 1.0.10-1 - sanity check the monitor selection (bug #112314) * Mon Mar 01 2004 Brent Fox <bfox(a)redhat.com> 1.0.9-3 - remove Requires on system-config-mouse * Fri Feb 27 2004 Brent Fox <bfox(a)redhat.com> 1.0.9-2 - another stab at the dual-head code system-config-soundcard-1.2.5-1 ------------------------------- * Tue Mar 02 2004 Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> 1.2.5-1 - handle missing amixer gracefully (#117082) unixODBC-2.2.8-1 ---------------- * Mon Mar 01 2004 Tom Lane <tgl(a)redhat.com> - Update to 2.2.8 - rebuilt yum-2.0.5.20040229-1 -------------------- * Tue Mar 02 2004 Jeremy Katz <katzj(a)redhat.com> - 2.0.5.20040229-1 - update again per seth's request

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Gnomemeeting 1.0
by Alexandre Strube 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

Hey guys, gnomemeeting 1.0 is out. Will us see it on FC1? -- []s Alexandre Ganso 500 FOUR vermelha - Diretor Steel Goose Moto Group

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Prelink success story :)
by Keith G. Robertson-Turner 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

Guess I've been lucky, but I never really suffered much from the various prelink related problems that have been reported. A total of 2 applications (out of 1603 packages) were bØrked by prelink on my system, since FC1 was released, namely k3b and kdepim (in fact they still get bØrked even now by prelink). Being rather pleased with myself for having a 99.88% perfect system, I took the (maybe) risky step of chasing after the other 0.12%. I got prelink-0.3.0-21 from (Fedora devel) rawhide, but it needs SELinux. After getting the SRPM and looking at the spec, I don't see SELinux listed? Anyway, after some minor modification to the spec (mainly to satisfy rpmlint) I rebuilt on a clean mach chroot and installed. Of course the whole purpose of the exercise was to get blacklist support, so I edited prelink.conf and added twenty or so files that I'd flagged as problem files (all part of the above two apps). I ran a full prelink and crossed my finger. Result: no problems at all. No segfaults and no bØrked apps. Also, and maybe this is my imagination, but everything seems to be running a *lot* faster ... even more than after previous prelinking. Even the log file was relatively clear (just a few complaints about "x" can't be prelinked because it depends on "y" which also can't be prelinked ... etc. Normal stuff. Now for some questions ... not gripes ... just curiosity: 1) ... Is Jakub Jelinek really the *only* guy working on this? 2) ... Other than in the SRPM, where's the source Luke :) prelink-20040216.tar.bz2 is missing from people.redhat.com/jakub/prelink 3) ... Why was macros.prelink hard coded into the spec as a text block, rather than as a SourceX file? 4) ... Why isn't there a logrotate file to accompany the included log file, and come to that, why *package* a log file? Or am I missing something obvious? Other minor (rpmlint) observations: Use of "Copyright" instead of "License" Weird 555 and 444 perms Ghost-without-post errors Use of "/etc" instead of %{_sysconfdir} Use of %{buildroot} instead of $RPM_BUILD_ROOT (although that seems to be a point of contention these days, personally I prefer %{buildroot}, since it is more consistent with the other spec conventions. Anyway, I'm just really pleased to have blacklist support in prelink finally, which I guess leads me to one final question ... why hasn't this version been officially released yet? (Although maybe I've answered this already above, but the cleaned up version looks pretty good). Oh, and ... thank you Jakub. - K.

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Re: Thoughts on Eric Raymond's Insights
by Jef Spaleta 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

Jonathan M. Gardner wrote: > I think QA and usability tests are two different things I'm not saying they are the same, I'm just pointing out there is a lot of work to go around for potential volunteers. I'll take whatever opportunities to recruit for the community based efforts I care about...even if its at the expense of someone else's idea...I'm evil like that. Everything is competent manpower limited. And I plan to do what I can to make sure my pet projects take as much of that limited resource as possible.... better hope you convince me your idea is something i should add to my list of pet projects. > I see your point. I'll do an experiment at home. I have a lovely > wife who hates computers but uses them anyway. I would call that a bias. And from my point of view, the results of the session with your wife aren't as important as the methodology you use to pick the test-subject(your wife) and the methodology you use to identify the usability issues you want to get feedback on, so that your session can be repeated by others. If its not really repeatable...the session with your wife is going to be nothing better than a random osnews review, where personal preferences get expressed without a meaningful framework of comparison. And we all know how much traction those sorts of reviews in the media have on developer thinking.... You are going to have to be extremely careful that you approach things in a way that only addresses usability and not utility. And actually, i would argue that you should attempt to address just a single aspect of usability at a time. I really think this sums up things in very broad strokes: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030825.html But all the links here are of value: http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/developers-guide/s1-ui-more-suggestion… particularly for you maybe this: http://usability.gov/methods/usability_testing.html > Are there any volunteers for a project that would be willing to > take the results of a usability study seriously? Depends on how serious the usability study is.... And I doubt all the project developers actively read all the messages in this list. You are going to have to be proactive and try to poke a few developers in the eye who are leading projects that could use some help with usability. Since the gnome people already have a usability project listed... http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/references.html you might find a person associated with that who is willing to provide some guidance. KMail and Mozilla Mail and Evolution are all upstream development issues, not under the direct control of Fedora Project. You will have to start getting involved in the upstream mailinglist and approach the developers on their home turf. redhat-config-network or as we like to call it now system-config-network is the providence of: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/config-tools/ and has its own mailinglist. It's up to you to find out which project would be most receptive to your experimentation. > But in my experience, even though they don't turn out a great > volume of statistics with error bars or complete analysis of > the target market, they do give a lot of valuable feedback. No offense, but for the sake of this discussion, its not clear how valuable your personal experience is on this matter. And to be fair its not clear how valuable my personal experience on this matter is either. And in my experience, just saying 'in my experience' without some noteworthy credentials or a working relationship with your audience based on a good track-record of productive conversation doesn't help convince people who are leaning towards a healthy level of criticism when listening to your opinions. Its far better to cite references that look authoritative. Even if they are crap, it at least shows you aren't just talking only from a point of view of personal opinion and are willing to do some research. -jef"looking forward to seeing your methodology"spaleta

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RE: apt-get / mach problems
by Erik LaBianca 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

> > [erik@mises SPECS]$ sudo apt-get install 'perl(Digest::SHA1)' > 'perl(Digest::Nilsimsa)' > Reading Package Lists... Done > Building Dependency Tree... Done > Selecting perl-Digest-SHA1 for 'perl(Digest::SHA1)' > Package perl(Digest::Nilsimsa) is a virtual package provided by: > perl-Digest-Nilsimsa 0:0.06-0.fdr.4.1 > You should explicitly select one to install. > E: Package perl(Digest::Nilsimsa) has no installation candidate > > Ok, I've found another (maybe easily fixed) bug on the apt-get side things. [root@mises root]# apt-get install perl-Digest-Nilsimsa Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following NEW packages will be installed: perl-Digest-Nilsimsa (0.06-0.fdr.4.1) 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 removed and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B/26.1kB of archives. After unpacking 47.8kB of additional disk space will be used. Checking GPG signatures... Committing changes... Preparing... ########################################### [100%] 1:perl-Digest-Nilsimsa ########################################### [100%] Done. [root@mises root]# apt-get install 'perl(Digest::Nilsimsa)' Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done Package perl(Digest::Nilsimsa) is a virtual package provided by: perl-Digest-Nilsimsa 0:0.06-0.fdr.4.1 You should explicitly select one to install. E: Package perl(Digest::Nilsimsa) has no installation candidate [root@mises root]# rpm -q --whatprovides 'perl(Digest::Nilsimsa)' perl-Digest-Nilsimsa-0.06-0.fdr.4.1 What's happening here is that apt isn't checking rpm for a whatprovides before it tries to do the install. This wouldn't be a problem, IF the virtual provides resolution worked properly in all cases, but since it doesn't, apt-get fails when asked to install bugged virtual provides, even if there is something installed satisfying the dependency. Not sure if this portion of the problem is really an apt bug or not, it's easy enough to workaround by manually checking provides first. --erik

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devel March 2004