Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy Change
by Ben Cotton
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/CompilerPolicy
== Summary ==
Fedora has historically forced packages to build with GCC unless the
upstream project for the package only supported Clang/LLVM. This
change proposal replaces that policy with one where compiler selection
for Fedora follows the package's upstream preferences.
== Owner ==
* Name: Jeff Law
* Email: law(a)redhat.com
== Detailed Description ==
The main goal here is to make selection of the compiler to build a
package flow from upstream in an effort to preserve our development
resources. In cases where there is no upstream the Fedora package
maintainer should be allowed to make the compiler choice for the
package. For packages where upstream does not have a strong compiler
preference, we should (for now) stick with the status quo to avoid
unnecessary churn.
== Benefit to Fedora ==
This change allows packages to be built with whatever compiler the
upstream project recommends/supports (so long as that compiler is in
Fedora). Thus, Fedora package owners no longer need to spend time
making a package work with GCC if the upstream project is using
Clang/LLVM.
An obvious example is Firefox. Upstream, the Firefox project builds
primarily with Clang/LLVM. Yet we force the Fedora package owner to
find and fix issues building with GCC then either carry those custom
fixes forward in Fedora or negotiate with upstream to get those
changes upstreamed. While this process can be helpful in finding
non-portable code, this is ultimately a poor use of the packager's
time.
Additionally Fedora loses the benefit of the testing provided by other
distributions where Firefox is compiled in the same way as the
upstream project -- when issues arise the Fedora team must consider
the possibility that the problem is due to using GCC instead of
Clang/LLVM or the patches to make that possible. Again, this is a
poor use of Fedora developer's time.
In the immediate term this change in policy only affects a few
packages (Firefox, Chromium and perhaps a few others). The benefit
will likely expand over time.
== Scope ==
* Proposal owners:
Update the Fedora Packaging Guidelines to reflect the policy change.
* Other developers:
Developers working with packages where upstream builds with
Clang/LLVM, but Fedora policy has forced the package to build with GCC
should update their packages to build with Clang/LLVM, dropping all
Fedora specific changes that were necessary to make the package build
with GCC.
Firefox and Chromium are known to be impacted, there may be other
packages. While there is no specific timeframe where this would need
to be accomplished as the existing packages are already building with
GCC, getting the conversion done earlier rather than later seems
beneficial. Failure to identify all the impacted packages is not a
catastrophic failure, we just fail to reap the benefits in the
immediate term.
* Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9503] (a check
of an impact with Release Engineering is needed)
I do not believe this change requires any coordination with release
engineering. No mass rebuild is required.
* Policies and guidelines:
Yes, the packaging guidelines certainly need to be updated for this
feature. That can happen as soon as the exact text is agreed upon.
Development work on packages such as Firefox or Chrome can happen as
soon FESCO agrees to the change while the final packaging guideline
text is hammered out.
* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
== Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
This should not require any configuration changes or data migration,
nor should it change existing functionality.
== How To Test ==
For packages where the compiler should change, the package owner will
need to update the spec file and build the package with the new
compiler. Once done, the package's testsuite should be run (if it's
not part of the standard build process).
In general, I would think the standard Fedora QE work should be
sufficient here, perhaps with a bit of additional attention to the
affected packages. The graphical nature of some of the affected
packages like Firefox and Chrome will make testing difficult on some
of Fedora's architectures.
== User Experience ==
Users should not notice any change.
== Dependencies ==
One the policy change is made a set of packages will need to be
updated. Firefox and Chrome are known to be affected. There may be
others. It seems like the Fedora package owners are in the best
position to know if their package is affected by the policy change.
It is useful to remember that the packages as they exist today still
work. Therefore if a package which should change is not identified
now, it will continue to work. Similarly if the package owner does
not have the time to implement the change right now, the existing
package will continue to work.
== Contingency Plan ==
The backup plan is trivial. We can keep the current policy in place.
If the policy change is approved, but a particular package has not
switched to the upstream preferred compiler, the package can continue
to build with GCC until the package maintainer has the time to make
the change for their particular package.
Failure to convert any particular package should not create any
downstream or distribution wide delays.
* Contingency mechanism:
It seems like we could institute the policy change anytime we choose.
But it also seems like once the policy change is in place, packages
that are going to convert should do so before beta freeze.
* Contingency deadline: Fedora can ship with this feature in an
incomplete state.
* Blocks release? No
* Blocks product? N/A
== Documentation ==
Several years ago Red Hat's tools team championed for Fedora policy to strongly
discourage the use of LLVM/Clang for package building. Exceptions were made for
packages that could only be built with Clang/LLVM:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/#compiler
At that point in history Red Hat had no Clang/LLVM engineers or expertise. In
fact, the LLVM packages were actually maintained by an engineer on the desktop
team (they had a hard requirement for llvm-pipe, so they got to own the
Clang/LLVM bits). The policy essentially was a risk management strategy for
Fedora.
Times have changed and as a result we should revisit that Fedora policy.
The Red Hat tools team believes that LLVM/Clang and GCC should be
considered equals from
a Fedora policy standpoint. Selection of one toolchain over the
should should be
driven by the upstream project's preferences not by Fedora specific policy.
What that means in practice is that if the project upstream prefers Clang/LLVM,
then Fedora should in turn be using Clang/LLVM to build those packages. As a
concrete example, let's consider Chromium.
Chromium upstream has been building with Clang/LLVM for several years.
Yet policy
has forced Fedora package owners to shoulder a significant burden to make it
build with GCC. Furthermore, Fedora does not get as much benefit at it could by
forcing Chromium to be built with GCC since most other instances are built with
Clang/LLVM.
By changing policy Fedora package maintainers no longer have to waste
time trying
to make Chromium build/work with GCC and Fedora gains additional "many eyes" and
"many users" benefits by relying on the same tools to build Chrome as the
upstream developers and other distributions.
Additionally, if an upstream project currently uses GCC, but switches to
Clang/LLVM (or vice-versa), then the package in Fedora should switch
in a similar
manner. The only policy restriction should be that the compiler must
exist in Fedora.
In some ways this means there is no "default" compiler for Fedora. The default
is whatever the upstream project supports/recommends. However, there are
probably many packages with upstreams that are ambivalent about their compiler
choice. For those packages I would recommend we keep the status quo at the
current time. For a package with a dead upstream, the Fedora packager should be
able to select the compiler they want to use for the package.
== Release Notes ==
This change should not have any end user impacts nor does it strictly
require a release note. However, a short release note could be
written if FESCo or the development community thinks it would be
useful.
--
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
3 years, 11 months
Schedule for Mondays's FESCo Meeting (2020-06-08) — proposal to cancel
by Petr Šabata
Hi,
while we have some open tickets, we're waiting for the Modularity
presentation later this week. In the meantime, the discussion
continues in the tickets. There doesn't appear to be anything else to
discuss today so I'm proposing we cancel the meeting.
I'll chair the next one.
P
3 years, 11 months
Inactive maintainer - dmsimard
by Igor Raits
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Anybody knows new contact of David Moreau Simard <dms(a)redhat.com>?
Seems that email is not active anymore.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1841624
- --
Igor Raits <ignatenkobrain(a)fedoraproject.org>
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3 years, 11 months
Is there a process for EPEL 7/8 FTBFS issues?
by Fabio Valentini
Hi everybody,
Over time, I've encountered some packages that fail to build on EPEL7
/ EPEL8, in some cases, like since forever. Is there an equivalent to
the FTBFS cleanup in rawhide / fedora N+1 for EPEL branches? Or are
those packages just left to rot?
Two examples:
- assertj-core (seems to be a leaf package), broken epel7 branch
- replacer (required by a total of 4 other packages, recursively),
broken epel7 branch
Those two are maintained by the Stewardship SIG right now, and we have
no interest in EPEL branches whatsoever. I guess we could retire the
one without dependent packages, but what about packages that are still
needed by something else?
Fabio
3 years, 11 months
Is there an official Fedora for WSL?
by Code Zombie
Hi
I recently realized that Windows WSL works by actually installing a Linux
distribution. However, I have not used it and don't know much of it.
Is there an official branch of Fedora for WSL or a plan to create one?
I guess it has to be somehow custom Fedora since not all Linux distros
are supported out of the box.
If I happen to use Windows in future for e.g. a project or something, I
would love to have fedora by my side.
-mehdi
3 years, 11 months
Re: devel Digest, Vol 196, Issue 58
by Jeff Law
On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 10:22 +0000, devel-request(a)lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 11:19:54 +0200
>
> From: Jakub Jelinek <jakub(a)redhat.com>
>
> Subject: Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy
>
> Change
>
> To: Development discussions related to Fedora
>
> <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org>
>
> Message-ID: <20200605091954.GH8462@tucnak>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 05, 2020 at 09:52:09AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>
> > I do not see why we should allow yet another special case for Firefox, nor
> > why we should let random packages make their own choice of compiler and risk
> > running into hidden binary incompatibilities. We have a system compiler for
> > a reason.
>
>
> I'll note that there are some even not really hidden binary
>
> incompatibilities, where LLVM diverges from the psABI for years, it has been
>
> reported and nothing has been changed.
>
> So if a library is built with clang/LLVM and used by GCC built package or
>
> vice versa, one might very well run into those (this is e.g. about passing
>
> std::byte or other scoped enums with char/short underlying type by value, or
>
> in some cases even about passing char/short arguments).
>
> And of course unknown ABI bugs on both sides.
As we both know, GCC has had ABI bugs as well. Both compilers strive to be ABI
compatible with each other and we should continue to work together to find and
address such issues. SImilarly both compilers are going to have codegen issues,
or rejects-valid-code bugs. Ultimately they're just bugs and I don't see that
one toolchain or the other is inherently better than the other, particularly WRT
ABI issues.
jeff
3 years, 11 months
Fedora rawhide compose report: 20200607.n.0 changes
by Fedora Rawhide Report
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 Raphael Groner <raphgro(a)fedoraproject.org> - 1.2.0-6
- rebuilt
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 Fabian Affolter <mail(a)fabian-affolter.ch> - 2.7.0-1
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* Sat May 02 2020 Ankur Sinha <ankursinha AT fedoraproject DOT org> - 0.3.3-1
- Update to latest release
* Tue May 26 2020 Miro Hron��ok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com> - 0.3.3-2
- Rebuilt for Python 3.9
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* Wed Jun 03 2020 Raphael Groner <projects.rg(a)smart.ms> - 0.3.0-9
- add patch to improve password input, upstream #28
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 Sergio Pascual <sergiopr(a)fedoraproject.com> - 0.10.1-2
- New upstream version (0.10.1)
- Enable tests
- Use correct husl patch
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- Update for python 3.9
- TODO: enable tests added in next release
* Sat Jun 06 2020 Ankur Sinha <ankursinha AT fedoraproject DOT org> - 0.6.0-5
- Update patch to include lists required by other packages
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- add patch for python 3.8
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 Denis Arnaud <denis.arnaud_fedora(a)m4x.org> - 1.00.6-3
- Rebuilt for SOCI 4.0.1-alpha2
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Summary: Use libsass with Ruby!
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 Fabio Valentini <decathorpe(a)gmail.com> - 2.4.0-1
- Update to version 2.4.0.
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* Wed Jun 03 2020 Denis Arnaud <denis.arnaud_fedora(a)m4x.org> - 1.00.5-3
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RPMs: simcrs simcrs-devel simcrs-doc
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 Denis Arnaud <denis.arnaud_fedora(a)m4x.org> - 1.01.5-2
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- Rebuilt for SOCI 4.0.1-alpha2
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* Thu Jun 04 2020 Denis Arnaud <denis.arnaud_fedora(a)m4x.org> 4.0.1.alpha2-2
- C++-11 flag is now set to on by default
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- Rebuilt for SOCI 4.0.1.alpha1
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* Wed Jun 03 2020 Denis Arnaud <denis.arnaud_fedora(a)m4x.org> - 1.00.6-3
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Package: travelccm-1.00.5-3.fc33
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 Denis Arnaud <denis.arnaud_fedora(a)m4x.org> - 1.00.5-3
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 S��rgio Basto <sergio(a)serjux.com> - 6.1.10-1
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 Richard Shaw <hobbes1069(a)gmail.com> - 2.2.1-1
- Update to 2.2.1.
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* Sat Jun 06 2020 Leigh Scott <leigh123linux(a)gmail.com> - 1.8.7-1
- Update to 1.8.7 release
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- Update to 2.6.2 release
===== DOWNGRADED PACKAGES =====
3 years, 11 months
CPE Weekly: 2020-06-07
by Aoife Moloney
---
title: CPE Weekly status email
tags: CPE Weekly, email
---
# CPE Weekly: 2020-06-07
Background:
The Community Platform Engineering group is the Red Hat team combining
IT and release engineering from Fedora and CentOS. Our goal is to keep
core servers and services running and maintained, build releases, and
other strategic tasks that need more dedicated time than volunteers
can give.
See our wiki page here for more
information:https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/cpe/
## General Project Updates
Please check out our updated initiative timetable for briefing in new
projects to our team
here:https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/cpe/time_tables/
*Note: Initiatives are large pieces of work that require a team of
people and weeks/months to complete. Please continue to open tickets
in the normal way for bugs, issues, etc.
Dont forget to view our taiga board to see the projects we are
currently working on, what we have scoped and whats in our backlog
https://tree.taiga.io/project/amoloney1-cpe-team-projects/kanban?epic=null
CPE Product Owner Office Hours: Thursdays @ 1300 UTC on #fedora-meeting-1
## Fedora Updates
### Data Centre Move
* A reduced services offering of Fedora will begin tomorrow, June 8th
until July 28th, est.
* This is to complete the final shipment of hardware from Phoenix to
Washington, so please be patient and understanding during this
timeframe as some services will be off and the rest, much slower.
* Please read the below email sent by kfenzi if you have not already
done so: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/infrastructure@lists.fedora...
* Details on what this move may mean for you can be found here
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@lists.fedora...
* If an application is not working correctly at all, please check this
list https://hackmd.io/hpYYJQRjQy-oHxUS7IonIA?view before opening a
ticket to make sure its not listed as being moved. If it is being
moved, please wait a day or two, then try again.
* Similarly, please be patient when opening tickets for service issues
in general as we have now reached the critical point in this move and
all of our sys-admins and wider teams will be assisting in the
successful bringup of the reduced Fedora service and facilitation of
the final hardware shipment and move.
### AAA Replacement
* The team are working on implementing an aspect of the service that
will allow users to select their applicable contributor agreement(s)
as we are merging both Fedora and CentOS authentication system under
the Noggin' solution.
* The team have also added a blog pref to the feature set in Noggin
* They have added pagination to the solution
* And are working through redirecting applications to interface with the new API
* Please feel free to check out the team kanban board for more
information on the features the team are working on and have already
completed here https://github.com/orgs/fedora-infra/projects/6
### Mbbox
* Project Dashboard here https://github.com/fedora-infra/mbbox/projects/1
* Sprint 4 is underway with the following work being addressed:
* Kojira CRD & Documentation completed
* MBS Backend CRD is almost done
* And the team are now waiting on a staging environment to deploy
and test in. We hope to have this in place by the end of this week
### Gitforge
Good discussion on the CPE PO Office Hours meeting this Thursday, 4th
June around the possibility of scheduling an AMA session/technical
panel session with some folks from GitLab to allow the Fedora
community a direct line to discuss services, potential blockers, etc.
General feedback is that this will be welcome so I will work with
GitLab and cverna, who is still leading the technical side of the
project (link to ticket below) to plan the best time for this session
& work with you all to set an agenda/discussion points for the
meeting. NOTE: Due to the data centre move, this session will not
happen before late August or early September at a minimum. Thank you
for your engagement with us on this!
Link to public issue ticket:
https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/217350
Meeting minutes log
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2020-06-04/cpe_po_offi...
## CentOS Updates
### CentOS
* CentOS Linux 8.2.2004 RC composes are with QA
### CentOS Stream
* The team resolved all of the 8.2 build failures in CentOS Stream in
their recent sprint (May 21st - June 5th)
* An issue where a SIG was unable to push new content to
git.centos.org was resolved, and is currently in staging
* The team are also investigating how best to separate CentOS Linux
branding from CentOS Stream
* We are also focusing on building more packages in Stream for our
current sprint (June 5th - 19th) and working on more automation and
variance to help improve the current process and time it takes for our
team to build packages
As always, feedback is welcome, and we will continue to look at ways
to improve the delivery and readability of this weekly report.
Have a great week ahead!
Aoife
Source: https://hackmd.io/8iV7PilARSG68Tqv8CzKOQ?view
--
Aoife Moloney
Product Owner
Community Platform Engineering Team
Red Hat EMEA
Communications House
Cork Road
Waterford
3 years, 11 months
Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy
Change
by Jeff Law
On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 10:22 +0000, devel-request(a)lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 11:42:36 +0200
>
> From: Vít Ondruch <vondruch(a)redhat.com>
>
> Subject: Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: CompilerPolicy
>
> Change
>
> To: devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
> Message-ID: <0f69dde1-839e-e0c3-26d8-90af2c5d6010(a)redhat.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
>
>
> Dne 05. 06. 20 v 9:52 Kevin Kofler napsal(a):
>
> > Ben Cotton wrote:
> > > == Summary ==
> > > Fedora has historically forced packages to build with GCC unless the
> > > upstream project for the package only supported Clang/LLVM. This
> > > change proposal replaces that policy with one where compiler selection
> > > for Fedora follows the package's upstream preferences.
> > > == Owner ==
> > > * Name: Jeff Law
> > > * Email: law(a)redhat.com
> > I am opposed to this change. Chromium and Firefox build fine with GCC. I
> > think that a distribution should be built with a consistent toolchain
> > wherever possible.
> > Last I checked, there were several reasons why GCC is preferred over
> > Clang/LLVM in Fedora. And if that should ever change (or have changed
> > already), then switching the systemwide default (reversing the rules, i.e.,
> > using GCC only for those packages that do not build with Clang) should be
> > envisioned. But as far as I know, that is not the case at this time,
> > considering runtime performance, security features, etc.
> > I do not see why we should allow yet another special case for Firefox, nor
> > why we should let random packages make their own choice of compiler and risk
> > running into hidden binary incompatibilities. We have a system compiler for
> > a reason.
>
>
>
>
> Just FTR, there are technical (and security) reasons why we might
>
> consider switching Ruby from GCC to Clang in the future:
>
>
>
>
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1721553
Absolutely correct. While this bug contains the first public hint of the
proposal we're now discussing, we'd been discussing these issues within the
toolchain team for some time before that bug raised its ugly head.
Jeff
3 years, 11 months