Hi folks,
With the creation of 3 products for Fedora, the Fedora Design Team anticipates many new questions around Fedora's brand. As the main caretakers of the Fedora brand, we're going to have to figure these things out within the next few months. For example, the Design Team is starting to think about how to answer these types of questions:
• Should each product have its own logo? or • Can you add our product to the Fedora website? or • Can you make our product its own website? (How should we represent these products on the website? Should we allow products to have their own separate websites?)
To start off the rebranding discussion, the Fedora Design Team has 4 basic questions for each of the 3 product-focused working groups to answer:
(1) What problem does your product solve, in one sentence? (2) Who is the target audience for your product, in one sentence? (3) List at least 5 products that successfully target the same target audience you are after. (4) List at least 5 products that try to solve the same problem.
We are reaching out to each group individually to ask that you discuss these questions and come back to us with answers by Wednesday, December 4, 2013.
I was hoping you could answer these questions for the cloud product; please let me know if this isn't a reasonable timeline or if you need any help coming up with the answers!
Thanks, ~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Máirín Duffy" duffy@fedoraproject.org To: cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:10:15 PM Subject: Fedora.next Product Branding for Cloud
Hi folks,
With the creation of 3 products for Fedora, the Fedora Design Team anticipates many new questions around Fedora's brand. As the main caretakers of the Fedora brand, we're going to have to figure these things out within the next few months. For example, the Design Team is starting to think about how to answer these types of questions:
Hi Mo,
Thanks for this mail.
Folks: I created a ticket in our trac just so we can keep it on the radar for the next meeting (https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/3) - hopefully we can come up with some answers prior to that point and just use the meeting to finalize our answers.
-robyn
• Should each product have its own logo? or • Can you add our product to the Fedora website? or • Can you make our product its own website? (How should we represent these products on the website? Should we allow products to have their own separate websites?)
To start off the rebranding discussion, the Fedora Design Team has 4 basic questions for each of the 3 product-focused working groups to answer:
(1) What problem does your product solve, in one sentence? (2) Who is the target audience for your product, in one sentence? (3) List at least 5 products that successfully target the same target audience you are after. (4) List at least 5 products that try to solve the same problem.
We are reaching out to each group individually to ask that you discuss these questions and come back to us with answers by Wednesday, December 4, 2013.
I was hoping you could answer these questions for the cloud product; please let me know if this isn't a reasonable timeline or if you need any help coming up with the answers!
Thanks, ~m _______________________________________________ cloud mailing list cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 09:30:50AM -0500, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
Folks: I created a ticket in our trac just so we can keep it on the radar for the next meeting (https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/3) - hopefully we can come up with some answers prior to that point and just use the meeting to finalize our answers.
Once we agree on-list or during the meeting on answers, I can add to the ticket.
Best,
jzb
Hi,
since i might be unable to join the cloud WG meeting, here are my thoughts about it:
0. no opinion, i'd favor having one portal for every products, we could follow the example of the current spins web page. For instance a landing page could show various usage of Fedora: Cloud, Server, Desktop etc... and users could click on the logo (followed by a brief description stating the goals of the product) 1. Just Enough OS for developping SaaS applications in an agile & devops fashion :). 2. developers *and* operators that develop and maintain SaaS applications (could be hosted on a cloud, virtualization server, etc...) Our target should be able to focus on their job (programming, maintaining apps and bringing values to their customers/users) 3 &4. I'd say: Amazon Linux (Amazon custom Enterprise Linux flavor), Ubuntu AMI, CentOS (which tries to be THE enterprise Linux for cloud hosting and base image), docker (albeit in a different fashion), bitnami
H.
2013/11/20 Joe Brockmeier jzb@redhat.com
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 09:30:50AM -0500, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
Folks: I created a ticket in our trac just so we can keep it on the radar for the next meeting (https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/3) - hopefully we can come up with some answers prior to that point and just use the meeting to finalize our answers.
Once we agree on-list or during the meeting on answers, I can add to the ticket.
Best,
jzb
Joe Brockmeier | Principal Cloud & Storage Analyst jzb@redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/ Twitter: @jzb | http://dissociatedpress.net/ _______________________________________________ cloud mailing list cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 05:16:06PM +0100, H. Guémar wrote:
Hi,
since i might be unable to join the cloud WG meeting, here are my thoughts about it:
- Just Enough OS for developping SaaS applications in an agile & devops
fashion :).
I think your response and mine are largely similar, but I don't think we want to limit to SaaS, do we? If someone wants to develop an application of any kind in public/private cloud, we want to be able to be the foundation for that.
- developers *and* operators that develop and maintain SaaS applications
(could be hosted on a cloud, virtualization server, etc...)
Are we talking about the same thing, here? (SaaS)
Best,
jzb
Le 22/11/2013 19:25, Joe Brockmeier a écrit :
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 05:16:06PM +0100, H. Guémar wrote:
Hi,
since i might be unable to join the cloud WG meeting, here are my thoughts about it:
- Just Enough OS for developping SaaS applications in an agile & devops
fashion :).
I think your response and mine are largely similar, but I don't think we want to limit to SaaS, do we? If someone wants to develop an application of any kind in public/private cloud, we want to be able to be the foundation for that.
My definition of SaaS is here quite large, it include every piece of software that could benefit from elasticity (on-demand software, scale-out applications etc...). It could also be used as a building block for PaaS like OpenShift, Clever Cloud, Heroku etc.
The difference is probably that i'd like to emphasize the devops side, a bare image would bring little value to the existing.
The main idea between having products and Fedora.next is reducing the scope (target, features, etc.) so we could solve Fedora users issues while providing a rock solid experience. SaaS applications is already a large target, i don't think we could bring any value to a larger target.
- developers *and* operators that develop and maintain SaaS applications
(could be hosted on a cloud, virtualization server, etc...)
Are we talking about the same thing, here? (SaaS)
SaaS is a delivery model, it could be hosted on virtualization servers: from basic kvm/libvirt to full-fledged oVirt or vSphere. Cloud hosting is commonly understood as IaaS/PaaS, but as a developer, most of the time, development and testing is done on bare metal & virtual machines. Having exactely the very same image for development/staging/production environment would be an improvement of our target workflow. We should learn from Vagrant success though it's not-so-good piece of software, does solve an important issue to devops teams.
Best,
jzb
best regards, H.
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 08:14:57PM +0100, Haïkel Guémar wrote:
Le 22/11/2013 19:25, Joe Brockmeier a écrit :
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 05:16:06PM +0100, H. Guémar wrote:
Hi,
since i might be unable to join the cloud WG meeting, here are my thoughts about it:
- Just Enough OS for developping SaaS applications in an agile & devops
fashion :).
I think your response and mine are largely similar, but I don't think we want to limit to SaaS, do we? If someone wants to develop an application of any kind in public/private cloud, we want to be able to be the foundation for that.
My definition of SaaS is here quite large, it include every piece of software that could benefit from elasticity (on-demand software, scale-out applications etc...). It could also be used as a building block for PaaS like OpenShift, Clever Cloud, Heroku etc.
Ah, OK.
For sanity's sake, can we use industry definitions instead of coining our own? SaaS == Software as a Service, e.g. Salesforce or Dropbox.
The difference is probably that i'd like to emphasize the devops side, a bare image would bring little value to the existing.
In what ways? Not disagreeing, just looking for concrete ideas here.
- developers *and* operators that develop and maintain SaaS applications
(could be hosted on a cloud, virtualization server, etc...)
Are we talking about the same thing, here? (SaaS)
SaaS is a delivery model, it could be hosted on virtualization servers: from basic kvm/libvirt to full-fledged oVirt or vSphere. Cloud hosting is commonly understood as IaaS/PaaS, but as a developer, most of the time, development and testing is done on bare metal & virtual machines. Having exactely the very same image for development/staging/production environment would be an improvement of our target workflow. We should learn from Vagrant success though it's not-so-good piece of software, does solve an important issue to devops teams.
Best,
jzb
best regards, H. _______________________________________________ cloud mailing list cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Best,
jzb
Le 22/11/2013 21:02, Joe Brockmeier a écrit :
Ah, OK.
For sanity's sake, can we use industry definitions instead of coining our own? SaaS == Software as a Service, e.g. Salesforce or Dropbox.
agreed, i'm not a native speaker so it's probably a misunderstanding, i wanted to convey that SaaS as a delivery model covers many use cases.
best regards, H.
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 09:10:15PM -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Hi folks,
With the creation of 3 products for Fedora, the Fedora Design Team anticipates many new questions around Fedora's brand. As the main caretakers of the Fedora brand, we're going to have to figure these things out within the next few months. For example, the Design Team is starting to think about how to answer these types of questions:
• Should each product have its own logo? or
Yes.
• Can you add our product to the Fedora website? or • Can you make our product its own website? (How should we represent these products on the website? Should we allow products to have their own separate websites?)
That's a good question. Maintaining a separate Web site is a fair amount of work, but *might* be worth it. I lean towards trying to keep the projects/products all on the same site, though.
To start off the rebranding discussion, the Fedora Design Team has 4 basic questions for each of the 3 product-focused working groups to answer:
Taking a crack at these, so we have something to start with:
(1) What problem does your product solve, in one sentence?
Fedora Cloud provides a customizable base image and tools for developing scale out applications on public and private clouds.
(2) Who is the target audience for your product, in one sentence?
Developers creating scale out applications on top of public and private clouds.
(3) List at least 5 products that successfully target the same target audience you are after.
* On public cloud (AWS) various AMIs (Amazon, CentOS, Ubuntu) that are popular.
* BitNami images on public + private clouds.
* PaaS offerings (Heroku, Engine Yard, OpenShift)
* Docker
* Windows Azure (Not sure how successfully...)
(4) List at least 5 products that try to solve the same problem.
* Docker
* Various AMIs
* SUSE Studio
* Ubuntu
* CentOS
We are reaching out to each group individually to ask that you discuss these questions and come back to us with answers by Wednesday, December 4, 2013.
I was hoping you could answer these questions for the cloud product; please let me know if this isn't a reasonable timeline or if you need any help coming up with the answers!
I think we can respond by December 4th, if not sooner.
Thoughts, comments, flames?
Best,
jzb
On 11/20/2013 11:03 AM, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 09:10:15PM -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
• Should each product have its own logo? or
Yes.
• Can you add our product to the Fedora website? or • Can you make our product its own website? (How should we represent these products on the website? Should we allow products to have their own separate websites?)
That's a good question. Maintaining a separate Web site is a fair amount of work, but *might* be worth it. I lean towards trying to keep the projects/products all on the same site, though.
So, just for clarification, we weren't looking for answers to those questions specifically (although I agree tentatively with your assessments here, it's up to the Design team and FPL / advisory board to decide.) We were more trying to give a flavor for the kinds of questions that are starting to be posed towards us that are driving us to this research in order to figure out the best answers.
To start off the rebranding discussion, the Fedora Design Team has 4 basic questions for each of the 3 product-focused working groups to answer:
Taking a crack at these, so we have something to start with:
Okay, these are great -
(1) What problem does your product solve, in one sentence?
Fedora Cloud provides a customizable base image and tools for developing scale out applications on public and private clouds.
(2) Who is the target audience for your product, in one sentence?
Developers creating scale out applications on top of public and private clouds.
(3) List at least 5 products that successfully target the same target audience you are after.
On public cloud (AWS) various AMIs (Amazon, CentOS, Ubuntu) that are popular.
BitNami images on public + private clouds.
PaaS offerings (Heroku, Engine Yard, OpenShift)
Docker
Windows Azure (Not sure how successfully...)
(4) List at least 5 products that try to solve the same problem.
Docker
Various AMIs
SUSE Studio
Ubuntu
CentOS
I think we can respond by December 4th, if not sooner.
Thoughts, comments, flames?
Looks fantastic so far and already helps me personally understand the product space better than I did before! :)
~m
On 11/20/2013 10:14 AM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Looks fantastic so far and already helps me personally understand the product space better than I did before! :)
Apologies, I meant to send this out right after our meeting Wednesday and got sidetracked.
https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/3#comment:2
Please let me know if you have any other questions/need clarification, etc.
Thanks,
Joe