Wiki port of manage docs now up / edit away!

David Lee David.Lee at ecmwf.int
Fri Dec 23 09:42:16 UTC 2011


Thanks, Michael.  Looks like my mistake: in trawling through the wiki, I 
had overlooked the section in "Built in configuration management" which 
is titled "Keeping Things Updated".  That addresses my terminological 
timescale question, and the implementation question (via koan, which I 
had previously thought, from its man page, was purely for installation). 
  Thanks.

-- David Lee


Michael DeHaan wrote:
> No, there's no reason to limit it, nor any reason to assume the status 
> quo must hold.   
> 
> There's nothing saying koan can't gain more support for more idempotent 
> configuration runs and couldn't be put on a crontab.   This is probably 
> an area where it will only grow.    Most of the complexity in 
> configuration management tools is not needed when the packages do most 
> of the work.   What's left is mostly around blasting out templates, and 
> if you need a more complex system, it can integrate with those.    Is 
> Cobbler just a provisioning app when it also does repo mirroring and 
> updates, and can reboot your machines for you?   Not really.
> 
> I actually like what's been added to Cobbler to support better 
> files/package integration a good amount.   Incredibly lightweight, super 
> simple, and doesn't require you to learn a programming language.   Plus 
> I really like that you can use the same templates for kickstart that you 
> use post-kickstart.
> 
> Now imagine using Func or another tool to trigger koan runs, and you 
> have a full system.   (But we'll leave choosing that up to you, crontab 
> would be fine).
> 
> Writing a configuration management system into Cobbler (well, Func) was 
> always something I wanted to do, it was always not organizationally 
> compatible.
> 
> To be clear, I have no interest in competing with full-on management 
> stacks -- there's nothing to win -- but for people who still want to 
> manage their systems simply without learning a modeling language I think 
> we can do that very very well.
> 
> And, in accordance with Cobbler philosophy, we'll not force you to go 
> either way.
> 
> Configuration is largely about files.  We help you manage those things 
> at runtime.   Nothing wrong with using the word.    
> 
> Many folks who are pushing out hosted apps with different deployment 
> models (even Capistrano, etc), just don't need something that heavy.
> 
> --Michael
> 
> On Thursday, December 22, 2011 at 11:57 AM, David Lee wrote:
> 
>> Michael DeHaan wrote:
>>> Thanks, totally agree.
>>> [...]
>>
>> Thanks. Glad to that, as a newbie to cobbler, I'm getting this
>> more-or-less right.
>>
>>> [...]
>>> Then there are a few things that probably don't have pages on them,
>>> where we could take them off the main page too.
>>>
>>> * power management
>>> * PXE (boot loop prevention, menu generation, etc)
>>> * configuration management (section exists already about puppet, but
>>> should merge in the built-in config stuff and make easier to understand)
>>> [...]
>>
>> I've always been uneasy about the way cobbler talks about "configuration
>> management".
>>
>> Installed machines can have a life-cycle of several years. It is in
>> this long-term, ongoing maintenance context that products such as
>> cfengine and puppet use the term "configuration management".
>>
>> But when cobbler documentation uses this same term, it isn't talking
>> about long-term maintenance at all. Rather it is talking about
>> "configuration initialisation": getting some sort of initial
>> configuration onto the machine that will probably do for the moment,
>> where "for the moment" means "while my mind is on the business of
>> getting this machine started; probably less than a day; probably less
>> than an hour; probably less than even 15 minutes".
>>
>>
>> So I would suggest that we give care to our use of terminology and
>> intention. I suggest we reserve the term "configuration management" for
>> its generally understood long-term maintenance purpose (cfengine,
>> puppet, etc.), and introduce a term such as "configuration
>> initialisation" to discuss our activities of doing the initial
>> tailoring. This initial tailoring might include hooks to install
>> cfengine/puppet and just enough to get them started; it might include
>> the material (hitherto called "config management", such as "management
>> classes" etc.).
>>
>>
>>
>> -- David Lee
>> _______________________________________________
>> cobbler mailing list
>> cobbler at lists.fedorahosted.org <mailto:cobbler at lists.fedorahosted.org>
>> https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/cobbler
> 


-- 
: David Lee
: ECMWF (Data Handling System)
: Shinfield Park
: Reading  RG2 9AX
: Berkshire
:
: tel:    +44-118-9499 362
: email:  david.lee at ecmwf.int


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