I have been using a 1993 Viewsonic 21 monitor for the console on the omen.com server. The old jug isn't as sharp as it once was, but it still can do 1024x768 or better.
Upon installing Fedora 12, I discovered that there in no longer a reasonable way to set anything higher than 800x600 with Xvesa or the default driver for Nvidia. This is a major breakage as many applets are unusable at 800x600, including system management. Some of the menu is off the screen and there is no apparent way to get them to appear on screen.
If utilities are unusable in 800x600 the ability to manually set larger screen size that was present before Fedora 12 needs to be fixed.
I have experienced that same problem in F11, with an LCD monitor. Solution was to supply an xorg.conf file. I didn't get around to trying the X -configure that some have suggested. What I got was a pointer to a program that runs in Windows that will dump the mode line suitable for use with X. It's a pay program with a free trial, and since I only intended to use it once I thought the free trial was enough.
Now you're going to ask me the name of the program. It's something like CheckSR
You could also try installing system-config-display - I don't remember what happened when I tried that, but it used to let you declare you have a generic 1024x768 monitor and set the resolution to that.
jhhaynes at earthlink dot net
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 05:07:56PM -0600, Jim Haynes wrote:
What I got was a pointer to a program that runs in Windows that will dump the mode line suitable for use with X. It's a pay program with a free trial,
Why on earth you would use something so weird when 'system-config-display' and 'xvidtune' are doing an excellent job (including dumping mode lines if you are so inclined)?
Michal
On Sun, 2009-11-22 at 20:09 -0700, Michal Jaegermann wrote:
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 05:07:56PM -0600, Jim Haynes wrote:
What I got was a pointer to a program that runs in Windows that will dump the mode line suitable for use with X. It's a pay program with a free trial,
Why on earth you would use something so weird when 'system-config-display' and 'xvidtune' are doing an excellent job (including dumping mode lines if you are so inclined)?
or gtf, for modelines. Try 'gtf 1024 768 85'.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 09:51:34AM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Sun, 2009-11-22 at 20:09 -0700, Michal Jaegermann wrote:
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 05:07:56PM -0600, Jim Haynes wrote:
What I got was a pointer to a program that runs in Windows that will dump the mode line suitable for use with X. It's a pay program with a free trial,
Why on earth you would use something so weird when 'system-config-display' and 'xvidtune' are doing an excellent job (including dumping mode lines if you are so inclined)?
or gtf, for modelines. Try 'gtf 1024 768 85'.
If we are already there then maybe you can explain? :-)
'man -k mode | grep VESA' prints
cvt [] (1) - calculate VESA CVT mode lines gtf [] (1) - calculate VESA GTF mode lines
but what is a difference? 'man cvt' at least says "VESA Coordinated Video Timing". V.E.R.A. for a change brings "Generalized Timing Format (VESA)" when asked for "gtf". I am afraid that this still does not tell me very much. Results with the same paramaters are slightly different. 'xvidtune' allows to "tune" an image to your monitor before you will hit "Show".
Michal
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 12:59 -0700, Michal Jaegermann wrote:
or gtf, for modelines. Try 'gtf 1024 768 85'.
If we are already there then maybe you can explain? :-)
'man -k mode | grep VESA' prints
cvt [] (1) - calculate VESA CVT mode lines gtf [] (1) - calculate VESA GTF mode lines
but what is a difference? 'man cvt' at least says "VESA Coordinated Video Timing". V.E.R.A. for a change brings "Generalized Timing Format (VESA)" when asked for "gtf". I am afraid that this still does not tell me very much. Results with the same paramaters are slightly different. 'xvidtune' allows to "tune" an image to your monitor before you will hit "Show".
sorry, not enough knowledge. for me gtf is just a magic box that spits out modelines. =)
worth noting that a manually-generated modeline is very unlikely to be ultimate answer to Chuck's problem, was just adding to the note that you certainly don't need random Windows trial-ware to generate valid modelines.
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 12:59 -0700, Michal Jaegermann wrote:
If we are already there then maybe you can explain? :-)
'man -k mode | grep VESA' prints
cvt [] (1) - calculate VESA CVT mode lines gtf [] (1) - calculate VESA GTF mode lines
but what is a difference? 'man cvt' at least says "VESA Coordinated Video Timing". V.E.R.A. for a change brings "Generalized Timing Format (VESA)" when asked for "gtf". I am afraid that this still does not tell me very much. Results with the same paramaters are slightly different. 'xvidtune' allows to "tune" an image to your monitor before you will hit "Show".
They're both timing generation formulas. GTF is older, a bit more complex, and generally matches the physical requirements of CRTs. CVT is newer, simpler, and has a cheat code for reduced bandwidth consumption on LCDs. This is important, among other reasons, because the DVI link speed is 165MHz:
atropine:~% cvt 1920 1200 60 # 1920x1200 59.88 Hz (CVT 2.30MA) hsync: 74.56 kHz; pclk: 193.25 MHz Modeline "1920x1200_60.00" 193.25 1920 2056 2256 2592 1200 1203 1209 1245 -hsync +vsync atropine:~% cvt -r 1920 1200 60 # 1920x1200 59.95 Hz (CVT 2.30MA-R) hsync: 74.04 kHz; pclk: 154.00 MHz Modeline "1920x1200R" 154.00 1920 1968 2000 2080 1200 1203 1209 1235 +hsync -vsync
and so a non-reduced-blanking timing for 1920x1200 won't fit on a single DVI link.
tl;dr version: GTF for CRTs, CVT for LCDs.
- ajax
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 03:51:27PM -0500, Adam Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 12:59 -0700, Michal Jaegermann wrote:
'man -k mode | grep VESA' prints
cvt [] (1) - calculate VESA CVT mode lines gtf [] (1) - calculate VESA GTF mode lines
but what is a difference?
....
They're both timing generation formulas. GTF is older, a bit more complex, and generally matches the physical requirements of CRTs. CVT is newer, simpler, and has a cheat code for reduced bandwidth consumption on LCDs. This is important, among other reasons, because the DVI link speed is 165MHz:
....
tl;dr version: GTF for CRTs, CVT for LCDs.
Thanks a bunch for these explanations. It would be nice, though, if manpages would mention some of that and mutual cross-references in SEE ALSO sections would be also not out of order.
Michal
Well, at the time, system-config-display was not showing anything sensible.
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009, Michal Jaegermann wrote:
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 05:07:56PM -0600, Jim Haynes wrote:
What I got was a pointer to a program that runs in Windows that will dump the mode line suitable for use with X. It's a pay program with a free trial,
Why on earth you would use something so weird when 'system-config-display' and 'xvidtune' are doing an excellent job (including dumping mode lines if you are so inclined)?
Michal
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On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 05:57:04PM -0600, Jim Haynes wrote:
Well, at the time, system-config-display was not showing anything sensible.
Maybe it does not like top-posting?
Seriously - you have to open a list of monitors and find your model. By default you only a generic CRT and a generic LCD are shown.
Michal
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009, Michal Jaegermann wrote:
Why on earth you would use something so weird when 'system-config-display' and 'xvidtune' are doing an excellent job (including dumping mode lines if you are so inclined)?
Michal
Also, I was working right after some lightning damage to the computer, replacing it with another computer, not knowing if the ability to read data from the monitor had been damaged in the process. All I knew was that system-config-display said the monitor was unknown, and that under Windows it worked OK. I wasn't aware of those Linux programs that have been mentioned for dumping mode lines.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:00 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com wrote:
I have been using a 1993 Viewsonic 21 monitor for the console on the omen.com server. The old jug isn't as sharp as it once was, but it still can do 1024x768 or better.
Upon installing Fedora 12, I discovered that there in no longer a reasonable way to set anything higher than 800x600 with Xvesa or the default driver for Nvidia. This is a major breakage as many applets are unusable at 800x600, including system management. Some of the menu is off the screen and there is no apparent way to get them to appear on screen.
If utilities are unusable in 800x600 the ability to manually set larger screen size that was present before Fedora 12 needs to be fixed.
You should write a *modern* xorg.conf file after reading Xorg.0.log http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12 Install system-config-display first
Best
A. Mani
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com wrote:
I have been using a 1993 Viewsonic 21 monitor for the console on the omen.com server. The old jug isn't as sharp as it once was, but it still can do 1024x768 or better.
There are a couple of items that could cause this:
1) the nvidia driver has dropped support for the video card you have. however the xvesa card should work at 1024x768 2) more likely the monitor does not have a DMI probing and so the video driver goes into safe mode of 800x600.
There are a couple of ways to try and fix this. 1) Make a custom xorg.conf file with the display set up for it. 2) Use xrandr to do it on the fly
xrandr --newmode "1024x768" .... fill in data for your monitor here .... +hsync +vsync xrandr --addmode VGA1 "1024x768" xrandr --output VGA1 --mode "1024x768"x0.0
or something like that.
Upon installing Fedora 12, I discovered that there in no longer a reasonable way to set anything higher than 800x600 with Xvesa or the default driver for Nvidia. This is a major breakage as many applets are unusable at 800x600, including system management. Some of the menu is off the screen and there is no apparent way to get them to appear on screen.
If utilities are unusable in 800x600 the ability to manually set larger screen size that was present before Fedora 12 needs to be fixed.
-- Chuck Forsberg caf@omen.com www.omen.com 503-614-0430 Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software" 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 FAX 629-0665
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On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 02:30:49PM -0800, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:
I have been using a 1993 Viewsonic 21 monitor for the console on the omen.com server. The old jug isn't as sharp as it once was, but it still can do 1024x768 or better.
Upon installing Fedora 12,
Well, this is a wrong list then. Your problem is no longer about rawhide.
I discovered that there in no longer a reasonable way to set anything higher than 800x600 with Xvesa or the default driver for Nvidia.
What most likely happens is that an old monitor does not supply any EDID data, or possibly faulty ones, and the current system relies on that information. If it is missing then some very conservative assumptions are made and you see what you see.
Quite likely it is enough for you to provide a minimal /etc/X11/xorg.conf which in "Monitor" section will have HorizSync .... VertRefresh .... with correct values for your Viewsonic. That alone may bump a display higher than you care and you may end up with miniscule graphic elements and a nasty 60Hz refresh. Did you try yum install system-config-display At least with F11 this was still available, if not installed by default, and it will do that job as it has an access to hardware data for a long list of monitors.
Michal
On Sun, 2009-11-22 at 14:30 -0800, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:
I have been using a 1993 Viewsonic 21 monitor for the console on the omen.com server. The old jug isn't as sharp as it once was, but it still can do 1024x768 or better.
Upon installing Fedora 12, I discovered that there in no longer a reasonable way to set anything higher than 800x600 with Xvesa or the default driver for Nvidia. This is a major breakage as many applets are unusable at 800x600, including system management. Some of the menu is off the screen and there is no apparent way to get them to appear on screen.
If this worked before and doesn't work now, it's almost certainly because the I2C code in the kernel isn't doing as good a job as the I2C code in X used to. So we'd fail to get EDID from the display, and fall back to smaller sizes.
dmesg should carp if EDID fails.
- ajax
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A. Mani -
Adam Jackson -
Adam Williamson -
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX -
Jim Haynes -
Michal Jaegermann -
Stephen John Smoogen