Hello,
Where can I find the transaction history of an update that was used gnome-software? This is on F21, and it should probably be using the hawkey backend. My system wouldn't come up after an update and I need to see what packages were updated to narrow down the misbehaving package :)
Given that updates using software cannot undone, should we maybe limit gnome-software only to packages in the updates repository that have already been tested - to minimise breakage and therefore the requirement to debug? The tool is for normal, non advanced end users after all?
On Fri, 2014-10-10 at 10:52 +0100, Ankur Sinha wrote:
Hello,
Where can I find the transaction history of an update that was used gnome-software?
Try 'pkcon get-transactions'.
Given that updates using software cannot undone, should we maybe limit gnome-software only to packages in the updates repository that have already been tested - to minimise breakage and therefore the requirement to debug? The tool is for normal, non advanced end users after all?
Well, if you're running F21 you should probably be able to deal with this somehow. Remember that for stable releases, updates-testing is disabled by default.
On Fri, 2014-10-10 at 03:10 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Fri, 2014-10-10 at 10:52 +0100, Ankur Sinha wrote:
Hello,
Where can I find the transaction history of an update that was used gnome-software?
Try 'pkcon get-transactions'.
Hrm - that works, obviously.
Follow up question - what config file would g-s follow? Does it use yum.conf? I had the install only limit set to 5 in dnf.conf, not in yum.conf, and g-s removed 3 of my older kernels.
Given that updates using software cannot undone, should we maybe
limit
gnome-software only to packages in the updates repository that have already been tested - to minimise breakage and therefore the
requirement
to debug? The tool is for normal, non advanced end users after all?
Well, if you're running F21 you should probably be able to deal with this somehow. Remember that for stable releases, updates-testing is disabled by default.
I did manage to deal with it - I distro synced to stable and will now update packages one by one to see what's breaking. :D
I just thought *forbidding* updates-testing from g-s would be an added layer of security - even if an unassuming user wants to enable it, he should either be told - "Nope matey! If you wanna test stuff, use yum/dnf!" or at least a warning that says "Woah! Are you sure? This stuff isn't tested - it might break and you'll need to be able to debug it!". You know, something on these lines?
On 10 October 2014 11:24, Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com wrote:
Try 'pkcon get-transactions'.
Hrm - that works, obviously.
Or if you install gnome-packagekit, gpk-log
Follow up question - what config file would g-s follow? Does it use yum.conf? I had the install only limit set to 5 in dnf.conf, not in yum.conf, and g-s removed 3 of my older kernels.
No, it doesn't use yum at all.
I just thought *forbidding* updates-testing from g-s would be an added layer of security - even if an unassuming user wants to enable it, he should either be told - "Nope matey! If you wanna test stuff, use yum/dnf!" or at least a warning that says "Woah! Are you sure? This stuff isn't tested - it might break and you'll need to be able to debug it!". You know, something on these lines?
We used to do a warning like this for rawhide, but it would add new strings and also needs some design advice from #gnome-design.
Richard.
2014-10-10 13:50 GMT+03:00 Richard Hughes hughsient@gmail.com:
Follow up question - what config file would g-s follow? Does it use yum.conf? I had the install only limit set to 5 in dnf.conf, not in yum.conf, and g-s removed 3 of my older kernels.
No, it doesn't use yum at all.
What does it use?
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReplaceYumWithDNF seems to plan that dnf will replace yum in F22. Also I could not find anything in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/21/ChangeSet related to not using yum for package management.
-Joonas
On 10 October 2014 12:00, Joonas Sarajärvi muep@iki.fi wrote:
2014-10-10 13:50 GMT+03:00 Richard Hughes hughsient@gmail.com:
No, it doesn't use yum at all.
What does it use?
The librpm, hawkey and librepo libraries. We don't want to use DNF itself as that would mean going from C->python->C for a low latency parallel design, so PackageKit just uses all the same libraries as DNF without actually using the python frontend itself. If DNF and yum do want to share a config file (maybe even rpm as well), I'd certainly support reading that (for things like installonlyn) although I think a *lot* of the settings available in yum.conf make absolutely no sense for applications like gnome-software.
Richard
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Joonas Sarajärvi muep@iki.fi wrote:
2014-10-10 13:50 GMT+03:00 Richard Hughes hughsient@gmail.com:
Follow up question - what config file would g-s follow? Does it use yum.conf? I had the install only limit set to 5 in dnf.conf, not in yum.conf, and g-s removed 3 of my older kernels.
No, it doesn't use yum at all.
What does it use?
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReplaceYumWithDNF seems to plan that dnf will replace yum in F22. Also I could not find anything in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/21/ChangeSet related to not using yum for package management.
-Joonas
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gnome-software using a PackageKit backend build ontop of hawkey[1], librepo & rpm. dnf is also build ontop of hawkey[1], librepo & rpm.
The transaction history is implemented in dnf.
So PackageKit, dnf & yum all have there own package transaction history.
There was some talk about a common backend to store these informations, but dont know the state of that.
Tim
On 10 October 2014 12:27, Tim Lauridsen tim.lauridsen@gmail.com wrote:
So PackageKit, dnf & yum all have there own package transaction history.
No, libhif uses the yumdb as well. I've got no idea why dnf doesn't use the yumdb as it seems to be the same format but in a different place.
Richard
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Richard Hughes hughsient@gmail.com wrote:
No, libhif uses the yumdb as well. I've got no idea why dnf doesn't use the yumdb as it seems to be the same format but in a different place.
yumdb is a private yum data, so dnf has its own one, so dnf don't mess up anything for yum and is free to change the implemetations and the on-disc format. the only shared data between yum & dnf is the .repo files in /etc/yum.repos.d
Tim
On Fri, 2014-10-10 at 11:50 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
On 10 October 2014 11:24, Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com wrote:
Try 'pkcon get-transactions'.
Hrm - that works, obviously.
Or if you install gnome-packagekit, gpk-log
Follow up question - what config file would g-s follow? Does it use yum.conf? I had the install only limit set to 5 in dnf.conf, not in yum.conf, and g-s removed 3 of my older kernels.
No, it doesn't use yum at all.
I thought so. Is there a place one could add things like installonly then? If not, what does it do by default? I mean, how did it decide that I had five kernels and installing a new one, making it six, implied removing three older ones: - cleanup kernel-core-3.17.0-0.rc7.git2.1.fc22.x86_64 - cleanup kernel-core-3.17.0-0.rc7.git0.2.fc22.x86_64 - cleanup kernel-core-3.17.0-0.rc7.git0.1.fc22.x86_64
I just thought *forbidding* updates-testing from g-s would be an
added
layer of security - even if an unassuming user wants to enable it,
he
should either be told - "Nope matey! If you wanna test stuff, use yum/dnf!" or at least a warning that says "Woah! Are you sure? This stuff isn't tested - it might break and you'll need to be able to
debug
it!". You know, something on these lines?
We used to do a warning like this for rawhide, but it would add new strings and also needs some design advice from #gnome-design.
Should I file a bug upstream, Richard?
On 10 October 2014 13:21, Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com wrote:
I thought so. Is there a place one could add things like installonly then? If not, what does it do by default? I mean, how did it decide that I had five kernels and installing a new one, making it six, implied removing three older ones:
The value is used here: https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit/blob/master/backends/hif/pk-backend-hi... -- nothing ever changes the default value. If you can give me a good use case on why this should be configurable, then I can add it to PackageKit.conf, but I'm not sure I can come up with one.
We used to do a warning like this for rawhide, but it would add new strings and also needs some design advice from #gnome-design.
Should I file a bug upstream, Richard?
Please, tagged with keywords of ui-review -- thanks!
Richard
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 01:36:46PM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
The value is used here: https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit/blob/master/backends/hif/pk-backend-hi... -- nothing ever changes the default value. If you can give me a good use case on why this should be configurable, then I can add it to PackageKit.conf, but I'm not sure I can come up with one.
I've been at places where this was dictated by IT policy. I'm not sure that's a _good_ reason or not, and possibly lack of an option would result in lack of mostly-pointless policy.
The main reasonable choices I can see are: none (well, except you have to keep the running one, so two), some arbitrary smallish middle number, and "I'm not worred about disk space keep 'em all".
On Fri, 2014-10-10 at 13:36 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
Please, tagged with keywords of ui-review -- thanks!
Finally got down to filing it:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738825