Le 17/07/2009 16:59, Mamoru Tasaka a écrit :
Christopher Stone wrote, at 07/17/2009 02:22 PM +9:00:
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Mamoru Tasakamtasaka@ioa.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote, at 07/17/2009 11:59 AM +9:00:
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Mamoru Tasakamtasaka@ioa.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp wrote:
You must explain why you want to force to change understore to hyphen, even if installed files actually uses understore in its name.
So trying to think back to when we originally created the PHP guidelines, specifically for php-pear, I think we had already discussed this issue. You may want to search the packaging list archives, I forget when we formulated the guidelines. Anyway, I think the logic behind it was that the perl packages converted the :: to - in their packages. So in order to be consistent with the perl packages we used the same convention in the php-pear packages. There might be some other technical reason why fedora converts upstream's :: to - for perl packages which I'm not aware of however. But IIRC, that was the logic behind the package naming.
perl modules have some underscore naming like perl-Convert-NLS_DATE_FORMAT. We have no reason we must apply perl naming rule here and again there is no reason we should convert underscore to hyphen which would just cause confusion.
Please think in the way that we need less guidelines as much as possible. If you have some reason *specific to php-pear*, please explain, and such reason must be written somewhere properly.
Mamoru
Then I guess we should search the packaging list archives and see if we can find the reasoning when the guidelines were being formulated. It must have been discussed or else the entire packaging committee misunderstood the guidelines at the time. The majority of the packages are owned by Remi and myself. I don't know how much work it will be to rename all the packages.
Hi,
First, I think this discussion should go to fedora-php-devel (a public place), as I'd like to heard from others (tim please ?)
So at least for now we cannot justify why underscore should be converted to hyphen, right?
I'm still not convinced.. but probably because I hate underscore...
For me it is strange that you or Remi don't remember that (, however I guess there was actually no _real_ reason anyway).
If we cannot find out what was discussed, we must withdraw the proposal about converting underscore to hyphen and at least new packages must use underscore if upstream's naming uses it. (However I think remaing php-pear related packages on Fedora is preferable and it is better that such renaming should be begun as early as possible)
:( really a big work
Regards, Mamoru
Best regards.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Remi ColletFedora@famillecollet.com wrote:
I'm still not convinced.. but probably because I hate underscore...
:( really a big work
Indeed, any shell scripts or volunteers to help implement the conversion would go a long way towards actually seeing this get done in a timely fashion.
On 17/07/09 16:13, Remi Collet wrote:
First, I think this discussion should go to fedora-php-devel (a public place), as I'd like to heard from others (tim please ?)
I've had a look this morning through some really old archives of fedora-extras-list and fedora-packaging.
I submitted the first "real" package of a PEAR module that wasn't part of php-pear back in Dec 05:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=176733
That was php-pear-DB, which doesn't involve a package name with an underscore, so that doesn't help :-)
It does however refers back to an earlier bug from Nov 05 that I filed about Provides in php-pear:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=173806
At that point "pear makerpm" generated packages called PEAR::Foo_Bar as per upstream; the discussion in the above bug about naming was slightly different as it related to Provides; Joe plumped for "php-pear(Foo_Bar)" as Provide naming, which still stands and seems entirely reasonable.
At the time I incidentally mentioned that my preference for package naming was php-pear-Foo_Bar. I can't find any discussions of what happened after that, but the next package seems to have been (March 06) PEAR_Command_Packaging (also by me, reviewed by Christopher):
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=185423
which was using the php-pear-Foo-Bar naming. However, I'm pretty sure that the naming format was already implicitly agreed by then, because:
a) I seem to remember following a then generally-agreed if unwritten format when creating the spec, and
b) there is no debate in the review bug about the naming.
My best guess is that it came about due to the NamingGuidelines specifying not to use underscores. (I'm not sure whether the current exception about excluding packages where the name naturally includes an underscore existed then; I suspect not).
My opinions:
1. Current packages should follow the existing conventions. All current packages bar two are php-pear-Foo-Bar. HTML_Javascript and Auth_HTTP should fall into line. Let's be consistent.
2. Remi's suggestion to update the Guidelines to make this explicit is good.
3. If we were building a new distro from scratch tomorrow, with hindsight my personal preference would be to use php-pear-Foo_Bar.
4. Notwithstanding (3), I cannot see *any* point whatsoever in undergoing a massive exercise in revising the guidelines and renaming all existing packages. I would certainly not expend any time on it myself.
Tim
On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 10:24:26AM +0100, Tim Jackson wrote:
My opinions:
Current packages should follow the existing conventions. All current packages bar two are php-pear-Foo-Bar. HTML_Javascript and Auth_HTTP should fall into line. Let's be consistent.
Remi's suggestion to update the Guidelines to make this explicit is good.
If we were building a new distro from scratch tomorrow, with hindsight my personal preference would be to use php-pear-Foo_Bar.
Notwithstanding (3), I cannot see *any* point whatsoever in undergoing a massive exercise in revising the guidelines and renaming all existing packages. I would certainly not expend any time on it myself.
I agree with everything above.
Regards, Joe
php-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org