On 17.10.2016 06:29, Besnik Bleta wrote:
> Hello again,
> As others said, this thread started in a wrong place, adding to
> suspects. If one is interested in furthering a project, the project
> infrastructure is the right place to do so. There’s no obligation for
> anybody to follow others in a multitude of channels, even less for a
> coordinator. Extra communication channels are not welcomed from Fedora,
> as long as you deal with Fedora thing. Otherwise you could keep your
> translation activity happily on your infrastructure, without bothering
> to complain here about whatever.
I think the intent with this method of raising contact was to find a way
to best approach this topic and how to go about it. I don't believe any
foul play is meant by this but there is an issue that one side feels
needs to be addresses. Now, we have the opportunity to discuss this as a
community and come to a solution to resolve this.
> I believe that this is known to Azizaj, that’s why she asked for
> mailing list to be created, registered and left it, after being refused
> to be appointed the maintainer of the sq list. (At that time I didn’t
> see any reason why should I have it granted to her, someone without any
> translation contribution at the time. And I don’t see any now, either.
> Just asking for it doesn’t qualify for a reason.)
When discussing this issue, we shouldn't make accusations based on
guesses or interpretations. I would like to know why Jona felt it was
best to leave the mailing list. Perhaps there is a reason why this
action was taken. But until we know, we should avoid forming guesses
that assume a negative motive or intention.
> The offer was purely mine, not any obligatory step required from
> I thought it would help furthering the translation project, after seeing
> 15 or so new contributors registering. Reviewing their translations,
> mainly in anaconda, I saw substantial differences with what I would have
> the translation look like. So I had to choose between refusing
> them--thus giving a hard blow to someone in the first his/her steps of
> ---or moving over and leave the project. I choose the later, but with
> the condition--and that’s the part missing in Azizaj’s
> interpretation--of having the contributors work and grow and have an
> idea (based on that) about who would be the best candidate. In the
> coordination list I didn’t see any message related to those matters,
> which you’d expected from new contributors, people without experience in
> translating and handling translation process, unfamiliar with any
> terminology used before their arrival, and so on and so forth. In Zanata
> is still hard to have a detailed view about who’s best in contributing,
> or comparative contribution statistics. So you would guess that nothing
> or little is happening.
I think a good action item from this discussion would be encouraging
discussion to the public Fedora mailing list from any regional or
organizational lists. From what I am able to see, there are no
objections to moving forward with having discussions and translations
efforts for the Albanian language move to a more widely available option
Migrating any existing discussions happening in separate mailing lists
to a Fedora list would be a good first step.
> Anaconda had the main contributions, and I approved those in late
> having expressed my concerns explained above about the quality of the
> contributions, about which I never heard a word from any of the
> I had a look in Zanata about sq contributors. From 18 of them, according
> to Zanata, 14 have no contribution at all in the last two months. One
> has contributed around 1600 word and another over 130. I would have
> expected more and I do have my suspects about why it didn’t happen.
> Statistics about the growth and individual activity would be welcomed
> here to create an idea about the situation.
> So far, it’s hard to keep track of translation progress in Zanata, so
> going for translation list, where any contributor can ask about review,
> would have been an easy way to nurture collaboration. Silence was chosen
> instead. I’d like to know the reasons for such choice.
> From what described above, my idea is that no substantial contribution
> was made for six months. So the condition I ha in mind was not met.
> Therefore I had no reason to abandon the project to people with little
> interest in itself (feel free to speculate regarding other reasons)
> And that’s why I refused to transfer the project to anyone.
> In doing so, I believe I have not violated any Fedora policy.
From the above, it's easy to see that there is a miscommunication
problem. The focus of our discussion in resolving this issue should be
on finding out the cause of the problem and how we can work together to
resolve this to the desires of both sides.
It's important that we remember the language we use when describing the
contributions of others. As it has been mentioned, use of lists off of
Fedora have been used which likely has contributed to some of the
confusion over the problem on both ends. But putting aside any
contributions made as made by people who have little interest in the
project is a harsh interpretation and I don't think it is reflective of
the work by the Albanian community. We should focus on finding ways to
improve the communication gaps so that work that has happening is made
more visible to others in the Albanian community.
> You just started--and free from real translation review (remember
> bulk approved anaconda strings) and are threatening to leave?!? I wonder
> if this kind of primadona behaviour would be acceptable in other,
> consolidated communities… (I’d like to hear Deng’s comments on this.)
What exactly is meant by "primadonna behavior"? While I understand that
phrases and language meaning can differ across regions, these words are
sharp and insulting. Part of the Albanian community feels their work is
not being approved in a timely manner, and it is demotivating to the
work of those who have contributed so far. We should be approaching this
issue as a serious concern within the community. Casting aside the
complaints as invalid or being overdramatic seems to lend support for
the case presented earlier in this thread. In the spirit of the
"Friends" foundation of Fedora, we should avoid using this rhetoric when
describing other contributors.
Again, the language we use when discussing these types of issues is
vital. It's important to be respectful and considerate to other
contributors in the community, to recognize issues they feel are a
problem, and collaboratively come to a conclusion where both sides can
walk away feeling the issue is resolved. This will likely require
compromise from both sides.
> I can’t join, as I live abroad, first, and second, because I
> with your parent organization in many key points and practices.
The issue was identified where using lists off of Fedora was likely a
mistake. Instead of focusing further on the mistake, let's spend time
developing how we can open up communication to make existing and future
contributions more visible within the Fedora Albanian community.
> If I stay, and reject the translations I think should be
> the contributors feel more motivated? See? To make you happy I should
> go, so you’re effectively asking for it.
I don't believe anyone wants to see this as a solution. As mentioned,
the local Albanian community does not see an issue with you as a
coordinator but believes it would be helpful to have additional
coordinators to review and approve translations. I strongly believe we
are able to find a solution where nobody should feel demotivated to
leave the project community, but we can make sure the concerns raised by
the local community are properly addressed.
> I hope that doesn’t happen imposed from project elders. That
would set a
> dangerous precedent Fedora. I’d rather leave than seeing Fedora going in
> that path.
I don't think a solution imposed by leadership would be an effective
solution. To me, it makes more sense to find a way to address within the
community, and if necessary, put it to a vote or another format.
To me, a single person doing a job is always a dangerous thing in open
source because of the fact that many of us contribute as volunteers.
Whether it's for Ambassador mentors or language coordinators, I believe
it would be a good idea to have more than one person as the language
coordinator if there are people who are willing and able to help.
I've also CC'd Brian Exelbierd to provide any wisdom or other thoughts
on this issue.
Thank you, Besnik, for your time and effort as the Albanian language
coordinator. I look forward to working towards a solution we are all
Justin W. Flory