June 2004 - trans - Fedora mailing-lists

Annoucement: New translation status page is installed
by Sarah Wang 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

Hello all, The new translation status page has been installed: http://elvis.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status You will notice that there is a new column called "Availability" for each package. It either says "Finished" (if the translation is 100%) or has a "Take" button (if the translation is not 100%). This feature is designed to minimise the commit conflicts and better coordinate the translation activity within the same language group. If you wish to finish the translation of a package, just click "Take" button, fill in your login and password. Then you will be able to finish and commit the translation to cvs. All cvs account holders should have received or soon to receive information about login name and password. Please feel free to ask if you have any questions and encountered any problems. Regards, Sarah

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Arabeyes Forgoes Fedora Arabic Translation Project
by Mohammed Elzubeir 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

After much debate and careful consideration in light of the many emails (many of which were passionate and full of incitement), Arabeyes regretfully announces the suspension of its current participation pending further review of Fedora's upcoming policy. This decision was not made hastily nor without debate, but in light of all the recent changes/discussions and Fedora's lack of appreciation and recognition of Arabeyes' efforts and its team-centric attitude, it was decided that it is best if Arabeyes steps aside. The decision was made by Arabeyes 'core' managers as well as 3 of the key Fedora translators who have noted losing any interest in working on the Fedora translation project (note, the vote was 6 to 1 in favor of suspension). We don't believe our feelings are unique with this regard in the Open Source community with respect to the approach and conduct regarding translations. We do, however, think its in Fedora's and the Open Source community's best interest to consider a more team encouraging approach to localization projects. It was a shame to see such a trivial issue mushroom out of control. Arabeyes' intentions were/are not to 'take control' of anything but rather to unify all aspects of Arabic contributions (including translations) across Open Source software (scattered and disorganized attempts failed in the past). This is the last we are going to say about this topic and we humbly request all Arabeyes members to simply forgo this topic entirely -- we've said all we want to say. Those who are looking to know the truth behind Arabeyes and its achievements should visit its homepage and study its contributions and compare them to those making unjust accusations. We work transparently and expect others to do the same. -- Arabeyes.org

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a question regarding cvs commit
by Munzir Taha 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

I am about to commit the dist.po file after translating part of it to Arabic. since this is my first commit and I think I am missing something. $ cvs commit specspo/ar.po cvs commit: use `cvs add' to create an entry for specspo/ar.po cvs [commit aborted]: correct above errors first! I thought this may be because the file is taken (removed?) by me, $ cvs -z9 co specspo/ar.po Enter passphrase for key '/home/munzir/.ssh/id_dsa': cvs server: warning: new-born specspo/ar.po has disappeared The above message gave me that impression, so I released it first and tried again but the same message. Is it necessary to do cvs add first? I don't want to mess things up so I decided to ask first. -- Munzir Taha PGP Key available gpg --recv-keys --keyserver www.mandrakesecure.net F0671821 Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer Linux Registered User #279362 at http://counter.li.org Mandrake Club member Maintainer of the Open Arabic Bugs Project at http://wiki.arabeyes.org/OpenBugs CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS New Horizons CLC Riyadh, SA

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fedora-trans-ar list is available now
by Sarah Wang 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Hi all, The mailing list for Fedora Translation Project Arabic team is available now: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar For the moment I elected myself as the list maintainer, however, I encourage everyone interested in contributing to Arabic translation of Fedora to subscribe to the list and elect your own maintainer. Let's please move the threads relating to Arabic translation to this list from now on. Thank you, Sarah

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Erase a account.
by Alexandre Costa 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Can someone tell me how can i erase my translator account ??? tnx

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username/password for web access...
by Jamil Ahmed 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

Hello, What will be the user/pass for taking the available file from web? I have tried with my cvs user/pass.. but it doesn't work. What should be done? Username of my cvs account is, jamil Thanks, `Jamil

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If there were translation teams...
by Josep Puigdemont 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

If there were translation teams, and I was the coordinator of my team... * I would encourage all translators to have a CVS account and commit their changes, *provided* the file has been *reviewed* and *accepted* by the rest of the members of the team. * I would encourage all translators to apply as maintainers for those files that they are familiar with, either because they have translated them before, or because they use them often, or for whatever reason. I would still give priority to the last translator to be the maintainer if he/she would like to. * I would make sure that whenever a file is "taken" or "released" the team's mailing list, and specially the maintainer of a file, are informed about it. * I would have more time to translate, and I would have to spend less time coordinating the team, assigning files and keeping track of who's doing what and for how long they have been doing it. Roles: *** Translator: the person translating a file at a given time. *** Maintainer: is the person responsible to keep updated a file, whenever it needs improvements. This person would be responsible for any translation bugs on that file. He/she doesn't have to be the translator, though. The translator might change over time, upon team member's availability. A Maintainer should be informed about translators taking their files, and maybe maintainers should be able to commit at any time independently of who's taken the file... (if possible) Briefly, a maintainer is the person to contact for a certain file, and it often happens to be its translator too. *** Coordinator (team): the person to contact about anything related to the translation of a certain language (as described in Christian Rose's description of the GNOME Model¹). It is the maintainer of all those files that have not yet a maintainer, or for whom s/he is the real maintainer, of course. It will commit files and act as a maintainer on behalf of translators that have no CVS account. The coordinator coaches new translators (could be done by maintainers too). Possibly the coordinator should have full CVS access to any file that belongs to its language. The election of the coordinator is up to each team, any changes about coordinator must be submitted to this mailing list. The coordinator should be informed about changes in Maintainers. Maybe there could be the role of the "translation project coordinator" much like what Christian Rose is for the GNOME project, and which I suppose falls into Sarah Wang right now. Fedora translation page should have a description of the translation process, teams, coordinators... you get the idea :) All that... of course, if there were translation teams... Briefly, combining teams with the new method have a lot of potential that we should explote. Again, this is only my view, and there might be flaws, if there are I hope you can spot them and tell me :) Best regards, /Josep Bernd: these might be the scriptures you were asking for :) Note: not all members of a team have to be translators, there are also proof readers, philologists, users, etc, and not all of them have to have CVS access. 1) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2004-June/msg00148.html

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Re: Fedora and Translation Teams
by Youcef Rabah Rahal 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 28 June 2004 23:30, Munzir Taha wrote: > On Yaum al-Ithnain 10 Jumaada al-Awal 1425 11:38 am, Youcef Rabah Rahal wrote: > > On Sunday 27 June 2004 17:08, Munzir Taha wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > Yousef, will you please > > > release that file for us. > > > > [...] > > > > As you can't commit yet to Fedora CVS, I think releasing it will not > > resolve the issue and will make you loose more precious time and money. > > You can: > > No, I have a CVS account now so please release it since there is no need to > put a _proxy_ in between ;) Released. > Yousef, we are really going to commit through arabeyes in the present and > future inshallah. I am not against committing via arabeyes in general as > you know but for now release the file so that I release the last remaining > part of anxiety towards the subject. - -- Youcef R. Rahal Arabeyes.org http://www.arabeyes.org/~rahal -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA4LX4HDRR6Cd0eSYRAtVVAJ9owTDbrH2Fwbm/9PbCsrX950ieQgCeNDXO 6/BA1P9cI1df1cBWa/X8rrA= =xOoO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Fwd: Returned mail: see transcript for details]
by Bernd Groh 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

Seems like the address had a typo. Cheers, Bernd

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Arabic Translation Team
by Sherif Abdelgawad 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just want to recap and clear all the heat in the previous emails, hoping to reach a point where everyone cool down and reach a working environment. Current Status: - - Most of the Arabic translation almost done. - - Arabeyes team to take credit for the translaiton. - - New team from KCAST want to join. - - Individuals from other Arabic LUGs want to join - - Fedora Team still working on setting up team pages, current system allow maintainers for modules, and or large scale maintainer for certain lang. I belive the system should fit fine, yet it is open for suggesstion and request enhancement as needed. I personally agree with what Alan mentioned that most of the translation teams usually appear when all the work are done. I can see valid request from Arabeyes to have maintainership on the arabic translation. Also I can see the concerns which the other groups have against arabeyes, and the fear of control and forcing policies from Arabeyes, requesting to be part of arabeyes or you can not contribute. Some ppl do not want to be part of Arabeyes yet they would like to contribute. I would like to recommend something to solve all this. No one can deny the effort done by Arabeyes and it would be unfair not to grant them the maintainer. Yet, I hope that feedback from others and suggestion would be faced by difficult attitude from Arabeyes. This is one of the main issue I saw personally. Quoting from Mohamed Elzubeir: > - You have certain issues with the way Arabeyes handles > things (so far Arabeyes officially has not done anything, > so I'm not sure what you are referring to -- but if > you do have such issues, we would be happy > to hear constructive criticism on the 'general' list). That would not be only me. Munzir & Mohammed Desoky requested more open and flexible attitude from Arabeyes. Not only referring to what is currently Arabeyes doing on Fedora, but overall as a policy. For example the attitude when discussing things, starting aggressively defending, sarcasm tone, ...etc. Not only what happened here while discussing, but also from the link Munzir pasted, it seems the default way to handle issues. I think it worth listening and considering :) After all we all are interested in Arabic being properly supported and translated. It is good to have larger group regardless if they want to work under Arabeyes or outside. I hope you agree with me on this. So I would like to ask the other arabic groups to team up with arabeyes, and work up something which satisfy everyone, and get the work done. I belive we will need to review & QA the work done already plus finishing up the last big file which is not yet done. Munzir, Mohamed Deskoy, Arabeyes & Other indiveduals any suggestion on how to move from this point forward? Just keep in mind two things Arabeyes is well established group who I belive should maintain. Yet, a littel bit of change of how things handled and allow more freedome to others groups need to be clear and granted from Arabeyes. Afterall we all working on one target. Any comments? Thanks Sherif -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA38t4GEwRyeYJw+YRAnWLAJ9/6pkb1yll4poS+1yqwZwZUXO+zQCgtxtA QWalBMuhvdjDPRtyqk2ia68= =24sQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re:Arabeyes and Fedora
by Sherif Abdelgawad 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Arafat Medini wrote: > Salam, > > Something like a lock down would be good. Get the RedHat ppl to know why > we and ONLY we want/can translate fedora and point everyone who wants to > get a cvs account to us. why ONLY if you I may ask? > Giving up fedora is totally wrong. The linux wave is coming. And We have > to be on the boat. It helps Linux, it helps us and it helps the Arabs. So it is a matter being on the boat? > IF and only IF the Fedora ppl would say"well no we are not interested in > cooperating with you" then you still can point to Alan Coxs reply, if > this does not help. Then kick them out. Kick who? Is it always the attitude has to be this way in discussing things, even after everyone did cool down ? This is why I did object at the first time. Attitude problem ! Thanks Sherif

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Documentation
by Alexandre Costa 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

Can someone point me on some docs on the translations process ?? tnx.

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Problem while Updating transtion
by Jamil Ahmed 27 Jun '04

27 Jun '04

hey, Pls see the error message below! Who is this file assighed to?? :-) How to update the translations? :-| Thanks, `Jamil [jamil@dev chkconfig]$ cvs commit -m "Updated on June 27, 2004" bn.po Testing bn.po... [chkconfig/bn.po] is not assigned to you. **** Access allowed: jamil is in ACL for chkconfig/po. cvs server: Pre-commit check failed cvs [server aborted]: correct above errors first! [jamil@dev chkconfig]$

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username/password for web access...
by Jamil Ahmed 27 Jun '04

27 Jun '04

Hello, What will be the user/pass for taking the available file from web? I have tried with my cvs user/pass.. but it doesn't work. What should be done? Username of my cvs account is, jamil Thanks, `Jamil

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Arabic Maintainership
by Mohammed Elzubeir 27 Jun '04

27 Jun '04

Salam, I think I need to re-trace myself and remove all the passion out of my correspondences. Youcef is a member of the Arabeyes project, like many others, including myself. Arabeyes is involved in several projects, some of which are translations. We have evolved to have a certain model of doing this, which in my opinion, has been successful -- this is not to say that there isn't room for improvement (there's plenty of that). Youcef has started this project (local to Arabeyes) upon receiving what was understood to be maintainership of the Arabic language translations for Fedora. This has been a misunderstanding, as Arabic was never assigned a maintainer. However, we have continued to work under that wrong impression. So, we have our CVS, project page, mailing-lists as well as QAC to be followed by Fedora's Arabic translation (along with other translation projects). The beauty of this is that other translators can seamlessly translate for Fedora, KDE, GNOME, Mandrake, Debian, etc. since they are all on the same CVS. Most don't, but several translators enjoy being able to work on more than one project without having to deal with the many projects systems individually. In other words, Arabeyes simplifies this process by creating a single-point of contact. We then worry about the sync'ing with the other projects' CVS repositories. As I understand now, Fedora does accommodate to maintainers, but is still in its early stages of setting up for translations. In other words, some of the things that are wanted are still being worked on. I also understand that as long as there are no objections, Youcef can assume the role of maintainer. I also understand that there are in fact objections. It is unfortunate that these objections are not made public. The only person who has publically made an objection was Sherif. His concern was "issues with the translations" and "issues with the way Arabeyes handles things". In other words, there are still no publically cited concrete reasons to back these objections My question then is, what makes an objection justifiable for a rejection of an application to maintainership? Who are those other(s) people and what are there reasons? Are those reasons not work-able within the same framework that Youcef is implementing? The problem here is that if Youcef is not granted maintainership of the Arabic translation, it becomes impossible for Arabeyes to fit it under its current framework. In other words, this would in effect force Arabeyes to drop the project. This would mean that the 7 current translators for the project, excluding Youcef himself (let alone the others who overflow from other translation projects from time to time) will not be able to contribute to Fedora's translations. We will be forced to re-assign them to other projects. I apologize for the long emails, but I believe that explaining the background of Arabeyes's work methodology and Youcef's role in this can help others better understand why this is important. So, if Groh is the person who calls the shot on who is maintainer and who is not (I gather this from his offer to the Swedish maintainer), then I would ask him to consider all the above. Regards -- ------------------------------------------------------- | Mohammed Elzubeir | Visit us at: | | | http://www.arabeyes.org/ | | Arabeyes Project | Homepage: | | Unix the 'right' way | http://elzubeir.fakkir.net/ | -------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Fedora and Translation Teams (fwd)
by Sherif Abdelgawad 27 Jun '04

27 Jun '04

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 02:07:22 +0300 From: Munzir Taha <munzirtaha(a)newhorizons.com.sa> To: Documentation and Translation <doc(a)arabeyes.org>, Fedora Translation Project List <fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com>, Sherif Abdelgawad <sabdelg(a)redhat.com> Cc: alkanhal(a)kacst.edu.sa Subject: Re: Fedora and Translation Teams Sirs, we have a team that is willing to translate Fedora remaing file which rather big. I just want to ask about the procedure and whehter you will release for me -- Munzir Taha PGP Key available gpg --recv-keys --keyserver www.mandrakesecure.net F0671821 Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer Linux Registered User #279362 at http://counter.li.org Mandrake Club member Maintainer of the Open Arabic Bugs Project at http://wiki.arabeyes.org/OpenBugs CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS New Horizons CLC Riyadh, SA

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Re: Fedora and Translation Teams (fwd)
by Sherif Abdelgawad 27 Jun '04

27 Jun '04

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 01:23:26 +0300 From: Munzir Taha <munzirtaha(a)newhorizons.com.sa> To: Documentation and Translation <doc(a)arabeyes.org> Cc: Fedora Translation Project List <fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com>, Alan Cox <alan(a)redhat.com>, Sherif Abdelgawad <sabdelg(a)redhat.com>, alkanhal(a)kacst.edu.sa Subject: Re: Fedora and Translation Teams On Yaum al-Sabt 08 Jumaada al-Awal 1425 10:04 am, Sherif Abdelgawad wrote: First let me state it clear from the begining. I am a member of Arabeyes.org and proud of their work in general. I thank them a lot and believe they have done and continue doing a great job. However, I disagree with them sometimes in the way they deal with matters and hence recording my voice here. > It is up to them, if they did not speak it is their problem. > I am aware of at least 2 ppl objecting. Do not you think > you better discuss how things should be and allow more > somothely ppl to feel OK to join you rather than attacking? Belive or not I don't have any contact with Mr Sherif and don't think I am one of these 2 ppl but you can count me as the #3 who records some objections. I feel this thread comes exactly at the right time ;) > I also said I am not joing arabeyes team yet I standed to > my right to contribute if I choose to. Fedora is an Open > source project, it has the tools, the infrastructure > and CVS. I do not need to be part of arabeyes if I need Agree 100% that it should be a recommendation or at least ask the translation teams not to impose any restriction, whatsoever, on others translation. Read on... > to so anything, or I must do that if that what you are > refering to? Yes, this in my opinion is a major problem. > Again it is you who pushing things far > away and assume and over react. You exactly did the > same thing the last time I tried to approach you guys. Some days ago a very relevant discussion appeared here. I found very strange attitude towards our team work details. Examples: http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/doc/2004/June/msg00192.html It's mentioned that: "I for one, again personally, don't like the setup that is being discussed (not due to any personnel involvement), but I simply don't think a reputable leading institute should engage in open source in this manner...Its now in the open that these people will be paid workers (and that is good for all to know to avoid any dancing). " I believe translation teams should be flexible on how other teams want to work. I shouldn't be forced to reveal whether I am paid or not though nothing bad about it at all. Though this is his personal opinion but as a core member it affects a lot. Let's see... On http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/doc/2004/June/msg00184.html It's also mentioned that: "I think you need to state outright who these people are, what arrangements have been made by whom and why, etc. The key is FULL transparency on all issues - the more everyone knows, the more everyone is comfortable. That is the open source way and as noted, the main aspect of our existence is "fostering a community"" I believe that if someone is only interested in translation not fostering your community, he should have the right to do it. To block/restrict others' translation becaue it doesn't help fostering your community is a type of .... Community could be built on love and peace not rules/restrictions. On http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/doc/2004/June/msg00190.html It's mentions that: "The natural thing is to do it with the existing translation team -- this is how it works with all projects we are involved with. In this case, it happens to be Arabeyes. If someone wants to say, you know what, KDE's translation is crap, we will re-do the whole thing, there's nothing that can stop them. However, only Arabeyes' translations will be part of the official KDE release. I am only mentining KDE as an example, this would apply to all projects.... Arabeyes doesn't have a published mechanism of how to accept contributions from external institutes. We will hopefully come up with a scheme by the end of today's core meeting" This shouldn't be the case at all. I should be able to contribute to any project I like if there are some restrictions applied to my contribution by whatever translation team. Again if arabeyes or any other translation team believes that only their translation would reach the specified project this would lead to serious problems regarding others who have problems with the basis of Arabeyes, and yes, Alan, sure there exist parties/persons with such issues. Let's see now what's on the meeting. On http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/doc/2004/June/msg00210.html Alzubeir mentions that: "Although, after a long debate in core, there was a deadlock (2 - 2) of whether we should make this mandatory." By mandatory he meant to say forcing other teams to register individually with each one have a separate account and not allowing them to contribute as a team with one account if they are willing to do it so for their own reasons. I believe this right should not be in teams hands. Finally, I hope arabeyes would deal as expected with these message professionally and not count me as a wickid person. -- Munzir Taha PGP Key available gpg --recv-keys --keyserver www.mandrakesecure.net F0671821 Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer Linux Registered User #279362 at http://counter.li.org Mandrake Club member Maintainer of the Open Arabic Bugs Project at http://wiki.arabeyes.org/OpenBugs CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS New Horizons CLC Riyadh, SA

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Fedora Arabic translation
by Ossama Khayat 26 Jun '04

26 Jun '04

Salam all, I'm a major contributor to the Arabeyes and Fedora translation projects. I've been happily working on these two - and other - projects without any issues. I was surprised feeling the possibility of dropping the project translation because of some people objecting on the group's work, and not accepting Youcef to be the maintainer of the translation project. He always had the great spirit of the true supporter more than just a coordinator. It's really unclear why those people object/reject Arabeyes work and/or to coordinate with it. We always had new comers and I never heard of someone who was rejected in anyway. ===== regards, Ossama Khayat __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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fedora-trans-ar (fwd)
by Sherif Abdelgawad 26 Jun '04

26 Jun '04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:54:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Sherif Abdelgawad <sabdelg(a)redhat.com> To: sarahs(a)redhat.com Cc: sabdelg(a)redhat.com Subject: fedora-trans-ar - --[PinePGP]--------------------------------------------------[begin]-- Hi Sarah, As per your email. I am requesting the arabic mailing list to setup. Thanks Sherif - --[PinePGP]----------------------------------------------------------- gpg: Warning: using insecure memory! gpg: please see http://www.gnupg.org/faq.html for more information gpg: Signature made Sat 26 Jun 2004 07:54:08 AM EDT using DSA key ID E609C3E6 gpg: Good signature from "Sherif Abdelgawad <sabdelg(a)redhat.com>" - --[PinePGP]----------------------------------------------------[end]-- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA3WQzGEwRyeYJw+YRAsmuAJ975p2pf26dZPh7vf+TlNqbv61PowCbBCk7 66IWxULraD/mcgPZK8vGfT0= =W6OA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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info needed
by Zoltan Kota 26 Jun '04

26 Jun '04

Hi, I have received the message that my account is activated. Where can I find some info about how to work/start with translation? I haven't received any info about it. Thanks Zoltan

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Re: Fedora and Translation Teams
by Mohammed Elzubeir 26 Jun '04

26 Jun '04

On Fri, Jun 25, 2004 at 11:04:36PM +1000, Bernd Groh wrote: DISCLAIMER: This does not represent the views of Arabeyes and are only my personal views. > Wow! I am completely and utterly confused now. For the record, the main > change that has been undertaken is the [Take], [Release] mechanism, that > is to prevent two translators from comitting at the same time. Can It also prevents a team to exert control over their language's translation. > anyone tell me what exactly happened here? *confused* We did not What happened here is that I have been watching Youcef get ridiculed and treated as if he is the sole translator of Fedora, and as if he wants total control of the translation for himself. For your information, Dr. Groh, this is not the case. There is a large team that stands behind Youcef. If there are a couple members (some of which are redhat employees) who feel that Arabeyes is not worthy of translating Fedora, then so be it. I would personally propose to Arabeyes to drop its efforts with Fedora and let the chaos ensue. > introduce any new policy, we merely, as said, implemented a mechanism to > prevent two translators from comitting at the same time. And one thing I Read above -- it does more than just prevent two translators from committing at the same time. > should mention, since I am not clear whether it is clear or not, though > it should be, what I am saying here on list is *not* Fedora policy, it > is *my* opinion. I believe in my opinion and in my right to state it, > that I've implemented this new system for the Fedora project has > absolutely nothing to do with it. And I am telling you that this system is a bad system. You should consider looking at how other projects have successfully been doing this. Regards -- ------------------------------------------------------- | Mohammed Elzubeir | Visit us at: | | | http://www.arabeyes.org/ | | Arabeyes Project | Homepage: | | Unix the 'right' way | http://elzubeir.fakkir.net/ | -------------------------------------------------------

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The GNOME model
by Christian Rose 25 Jun '04

25 Jun '04

I saw some posts mention the GNOME Translation Project (GTP) model as a reference. Some of them seemed entirely correct, some of them while partly correct also seemed based on slight misunderstandings. I'd like to take this oppurtunity to clear these things up. If nothing else, this could perhaps get some insight in how another community translation project works. There are some more or less defined goals with the model that the GTP uses: * We want to encourage translators to work together (we call these groupings "teams"), since this usually means more consistent terminology and better QA for the translations. * We recognize that sometimes bad and confusing translations can be worse than no translation at all, so we want to encourage QA and contributors working together in teams, which in itself encourages some level of basic QA. * We want to encourage new translators to get in contact with their team right from the start, since the team can help them get started, with instructions and help in their own language. Also, the teams usually know what terminology can be used, and the team also usually has some experience in translating and can help in any question, regarding from language difficulties to technical issues such as PO syntax etc. * We want to give the teams some freedom to decide how they want to organize their own work, since we recognize that no mandated policy fits every team. Some teams are small, some really big, and some prefer an open policy, while others a more strict one. * We want to make sure that no, or very few, conflicts arise, and that if they arise, they are resolved before the affected translations that may be results of this are being committed. There's often not many things that are as counterproductive as conflicts, be they accidental or intentional. To avoid accidental conflicts, we want the translators to form teams, one for each language. * We want to make sure that the ones deciding on the translations are as much as possible the ones with knowledge in the affected language, and not other people, such as software maintainers or GTP maintainers. It's close to impossible for someone not fluent in a language to differentiate a "good" translation from a "bad" one, so the teams are the ones to decide, since they have the knowledge of the language. * At the same time, we still want to make the entry level barrier for contribution as low as possible. The teams --------- The GNOME Translation Project (GTP) is divided into language teams. A "team" can be everything from a single person working for himself, to many dozens of translators working together. But there can only be one team for each language at any given time. Each team should have a coordinator. This is basically in practice just a title that gets listed together with the team entry on the GTP web pages. The coordinator for the most part just has to act as a contact person, so that people from the GNOME side of things has a person they can contact in case there's a general problem with those translations, but also so that new volunteers have someone to contact in case they want to get started translating into that language. Starting to translate a new language ------------------------------------ In the GTP, anyone is welcome to start translating a new language. All it basically takes is for someone to write to the project mailing list and say "I want to translate into the X language". Then we'll list a new X language team on the GTP web pages, with this person as the coordinator for that new team, and help this person get started. Starting to translate an existing language ------------------------------------------ On the GTP web pages, new volunteers are strongly encouraged to get in contact with their language team and its coordinator in case there already is a team. If they report that they haven't tried, we urge them to do so before continuing. The team can then help the volunteer to get started, and they also know if someone is already working on a particular translations, things to watch out for, etc. We also encourage software maintainers to do the same thing, i.e. point interested translation volunteers to the GTP and their language team¹. If someone reports that they have failed in getting in contact with the current team coordinator, either because the mail bounced, or because the current coordinator didn't respond, we formally give the current coordinator one week to respond and explain. If he or she hasn't responded in a week, we appoint someone else that has volunteered for this position as coordinator for that team. The coordinator's role ---------------------- The primary goal for a language team coordinator is to act as a contact person. However, with the position also comes some level of final say over the GNOME translations for this language, or other aspects covering the language team. This is rarely ever needed though, but it helps avoiding confusion should such situations occur. It's somewhat like the situation of being the maintainer for a piece of software. We don't want to allow coordinators to become "dictators" though. If someone reports that their coordinator is acting in such a way, we urge the coordinator to explain himself. Should the issues be for real we can opt to replace the coordinator, but fortunately that rarely happens. Almost all such cases seem to be based on misunderstandings, and are solved amicabilly for all parts. CVS access ---------- In GNOME, CVS accounts aren't restricted, not even translator ones. This has both benefits and drawbacks, but one effect is that we are somewhat more restrictive with giving out CVS accounts. A translator has to produce some translations before he or she can apply for and have a CVS account. This usually amounts to a handful of translations or something like that. We just want to make sure that the person's request is somewhat serious, and the best way to get a hint on that appears to be on whether there are already existing contributions. Also, the team coordinator must approve of the CVS account request for any member of his team. This is just to ensure that the team knows who will be committing translations for their language, and help avoid conflict situations later. We don't want to have potential conflicts occur in CVS, but rather have them resolved before that point. Also, in many cases we catch those situations where someone wanted to translate into a language but completely missed the fact that there is a team that does this and that he or she could join. Most people appear to be thankful for getting to know this. Once the person has a CVS account, it's personal and he or she can use it for both committing own translations and other people's translations, usually from the same team. Usually, at least one person in a team has a CVS account, and with big, productive teams there can be many in the same team that have access, and so the team as a whole can also help committing the translations of new members. Abuse ----- Obviously, no system or model is perfect. One area that we have recognized is that there is a possibility for a coordinator to abuse his or her situation. Fortunately, this rarely occurs, since most translators appear to be sensible people. And when it happens, we usually get to hear complaints about it, and can have an open discussion on how to solve it. Often the teams solve any such issues themselves. Drawbacks --------- There are some drawbacks I see with this model myself. First of all, the barrier of entry is not as low as it could be. It takes some mailing to get started: Subscribing to lists and getting contact with the potentially already existing team. Even worse when a coordinator or other people in the team should happen to not be reachable anymore; then the new volunteer must also report that before the situation can be fixed. Benefits -------- However, most translators seem to agree that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. The benefits is the strong team community and team cooperation, and the encouragement for QA and terminology consistency built into the system. Also, since the teams usually gather experience with time, there is also a mentorship aspect, as older team members can help novice translators get started and also help later on, and this with instructions in their own language, a help which can be quite valuable. Usually all of this adds together, so that the whole translation becomes becomes like an ecosystem of its own, with the contributors in the seperate language teams getting more experienced, helping new ones get started, and then the new ones grow "old" one day and can help new ones, and so on, so this ensures a continuity effect that is most interesting and I believe also very beneficial to the project. So this is one model for organizing translators, and I believe that it is close to identical with the translation projects of many other big projects, such as KDE, Mozilla, OpenOffice.org or the Translation Project. Do I consider this model perfect? Obviously not. It has its drawbacks. But I don't think ignoring or downplaying the issues a model like this tries to solve is a good thing to do when organizing a new translation project. Also, I think the issues should be taken into careful consideration when designing a fundamentally different approach, since there is a substantial danger of just reexperiencing all the problems others has had before before they learned from it. Cheers, Christian ¹ I have even written a template that many GNOME software maintainers can opt to use to point new translation volunteers in the right direction: http://www.gnome.org/~menthos/package-translation-guide-template.html

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Fedora and Translation Teams
by Mohammed Elzubeir 25 Jun '04

25 Jun '04

Salam, This is intended to all translators involved in Fedora, whether they are involved for Arabic or any other language. It is also intended for the people who shape the policies and tools used by and for the translators. To all Arabeyes members who are involved in translations, I would strongly advise you to join the fedora translation list [1] to voice your opinions, in order to allow the Fedora maintainers to better understand our requirements. Introduction ------------ Fedora recently announced [2] a new system which nullifies pre-existing language translation teams. This is not to say that they had such an explicit policy, in the past but they are now saying that it is definitely not the policy. What do they want to do then? They want to have translator per module. What does this mean? Simple. There is module A that translator X can take, translate, release. Translator Y comes along, takes A, translates, releases. The same goes for modules B, C, etc. Sounds good, eh? More people can easily contribute. What this will result in is complete and utter chaos. Allow me to elaborate. The Loss of Consistency ----------------------- There will be absolutely no conherence among translations. Each translator, depending on their language skills will have their own interpretation of strings. They will also have their own vocabulary that will most certainly conflict with someone else's in the overall translation. The Loss of Quality Control --------------------------- Since there is no group overseeing the quality of the translation, there are no assurances that the quality of translation is up to any standard. So who says what is standard? In the case of Arabic, the Arabeyes Project [3] has set up a committee (Quality Assurance Comittee [4]) that is specifically tasked with overseeing such standardizations across all translation projects. This is something that other projects can learn from. However, with such a scheme standards published by the QAC have no means of being implemented. The Loss of Communication ------------------------- Since there is no group, each individual translator is on their own island with their own ideas of how things should be done. This does not affect Fedora alone. This affects how Arabic is translated across a variety of localized applications and libraries. This additionally creates a very serious problem for a large project, like Arabeyes. For example, in order to perform CVS sync's, the maintainer now has to manually see what module he still has control over and what modules he does not. In other words, a 5 minutes job will now take 50 minutes. The Loss of a Community ----------------------- This scheme completely obliterates the sense and spirit of a community. In the case of Arabic, this took very hard long years to build and foster. With such a scheme, this community no longer needs to exist and is simply put back to an individual doing a couple strings and going home forgetting about the work he/she has modified. The Loss of Credit ------------------ Arabeyes has taken great pains to ensuring that credit is given to each and every individual who has contributed in any way, shape or form. With the current scheme, this is no longer guaranteed. Conclusion ---------- Past experiences from projects such as KDE, GNOME, Mandrake, etc. should be a good reference point to anyone outlining a localization policy for a project of the size of Fedora. Fedora's point of view is, if a team maintainer is needed, we can do that, as long as no one objects. However, it is not clear as to what would be done if someone objects for no reason. I can simply sit there on the list and object to every maintainer who comes up, just in spite of the project. Would that be taken seriously? What if I have a personal agenda against an individual? Would that suffice? What if, what if? These questions do not have answers yet. It is our hope that this policy would be reviewed and discussed with the community of the many language teams and individual translators, before it is being made as policy. We also hope that this would result in a more reasonable policy that accounts to the fact that some languages already indeed have a large set of translators and contributors who are organized and structured. It is also our hope that other language teams of translators would join us in our plea to Fedora to re-consider this policy. References ---------- [1] https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list/ [2] https://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2004-June/msg00046.ht… [3] http://www.arabeyes.org/ [4] http://wiki.arabeyes.org/QAC -- ------------------------------------------------------- | Mohammed Elzubeir | Visit us at: | | | http://www.arabeyes.org/ | | Arabeyes Project | Homepage: | | Unix the 'right' way | http://elzubeir.fakkir.net/ | ------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Doc mailing list Doc(a)arabeyes.org http://lists.arabeyes.org/mailman/listinfo/doc

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Call to the RedHat CVS admins, Macedonian translation
by Томислав Марковски 25 Jun '04

25 Jun '04

Dear All, Our LUG has recently started translating the fedora packages to Macedonian. We're about to finish the translations, but cannot update the CVS as there are no previous mk.po files to update. Add/commit return "no permission errors". Please take the neccessary steps to help us synchronize the CVS with macedonian translation files. Thank you on behalf of our LUG. Kind Regards, Tomislav Markovski

2 2

Re: Annoucement: New translation status page is installed
by Youcef Rabah Rahal 25 Jun '04

25 Jun '04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Bernd, Some commit errors: Testing ar.po... **** Access allowed: rahal is in ACL for rhn-applet. Testing ar.po... [specspo/dist/ar.po] is not assigned to you. **** Access allowed: rahal is in ACL for specspo/dist. cvs server: Pre-commit check failed cvs [server aborted]: correct above errors first! Even though I have this file assigned to me. Regards, - -- Youcef R. Rahal Arabeyes.org http://www.arabeyes.org/~rahal -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA21kmHDRR6Cd0eSYRAv8KAKDv4I/HztbA89j8PIPKCvI3GCDgNwCffGqo sskED+Jvb9a1If+khAJEnkc= =GHCs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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=== HELP! ===
by Andrei Nestor 25 Jun '04

25 Jun '04

Hello, There seem to be some problems with my cvs account. Although I am able to authenticate into the new system that's been set up, when I do so I get a message saying "Unknown translator: dannutz". I have previously deleted and then re-created my account, and I didn't receive the confirmation message which leads me to believe that my account might be in a strange inactive state. Can anyone help? Thanks, Andrei PS: the account name is "dannutz"

3 3

Recent discussions
by Sarah Wang 25 Jun '04

25 Jun '04

Hi all, I have to say that the past two or three days is the most exciting period of this mailing list since Fedora Translation Project started :) It's great to have so many people join the discussion and give their opinions from different perspectives. I'd like to explain a few things raised among the discussions. 1. About CVS access. Someone mentioned that it was too easy to get a CVS account. True. Currently anyone who has a valid email address can be granted CVS access to the commit locale of his/her choice. It was because in the early phase of the project we'd like to encourage people to participate and to start forming teams. There is no way to know or qualify people - on what basis should we give someone access to cvs while denying others? If the person is a GNOME or KDE coordinator then he/she should be the default coordinator for Fedora? There is no convincing formula. I believe by adopting an open policy then close the loopholes and fixing problems as they arise will maximise the community participation. (BTW, your cvs account has very limited rights, so don't even think of misuse it ;) ). It is easier to add features and put limitations on accounts than to remove features/restrictions. In the future process development, we may be able to have different level of cvs accounts. For example, a proofreader's account may have more rights than a new translator's account. 2. Coordinator's role I believe a coordinator's role is not *to control* how things should be but to stay *in control* of how things are. People participate one project naturally form groups. Some are small - relatively easy to coordinate and come to a resolution. Some groups are quite large with hundreds of members - it's quite a task to keep things organised and come to a consensus on discussions. For any languages that don't have a separate mailing list yet, I'd like to see the translators of the same language discover each other and form a group. If there are five or more people in the group, just elect your own coordinator and send me an email to request a separate mailing list. 3. Tools vs. Teamwork Tools will never eliminate the need of teamwork. The new status page is designed to ease the work involved in coordination. For smaller groups, it may be very effective to notify through mailing list about the work he/she is undertaking, but for groups with hundreds of members it's hard to track who is doing what through mailing list notification. It may seem cumbersome to have to go through take/release when you know you are the only translator out there :) but it may not be the case tomorrow, someone else may signed up to be a translator and want to help out. There are lots of things tools cannot replace teamwork, such as quality control, vocabulary consistency etc, but tools (or we hope to develop/modify tools) could help with those activities. The status page or any future enhancement is by no means a replacement for teamwork. 4. Red Hat people Fedora project is Red Hat sponsored open source project, naturally you will see plenty of people with "redhat.com" email address. That doesn't mean anything said by anyone(a)redhat.com is official. Like everyone here, he/she is also a participant/contributor. Fedora is a community project and anyone participate the project should respect the community, Red Hat people is no exception. Last but not the least, I know it's pretty hard to stay cool in a heated discussion but please keep in mind when you post to this mailing list that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and we may have different approaches but we all have the same goal. All constructive suggestions, debates, and criticisms are welcome in this list. Sarah

2 1

Re: Re: Annoucement: New translation status page is installed
by hutuworm 23 Jun '04

23 Jun '04

Bernd Groh, It would be better if the system can release the module automatically after the taken module's translator check in the updated module. :D ======= 2004-06-22 17:38:32 Quote from your mail ======= >If you have only 2 translators, then it may not be a problem, it gets >more difficult with 10. And if you have 20+ translators to a language, >peer-to-peer communication has proven not to be ideal. In this way, >everyone is informed of who is doing what. You only have to [Take] a >module once, and then it belongs to you until the translation is >finished, or you [Release] it. We believed this mechanism to be >extremely helpful. > >Regards, >Bernd > >Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan schrieb: > >> Sulyok Peti wrote: >> >>> My opinion is that conflicts should be resolved according to the docs of >>> CVS. By using this take-over tech. teamwork has to be done outside CVS, >>> or by using another CVS repository. This might be painful for teams >>> working on the large PO files like dist and anaconda. >>> Regards, >>> Peti >> >> >> Agreed. Previously, I and another Malay translator working together >> with anaconda totally using CVS. No issue about take over. Both >> updates their own tree and resolve any conflict prior to committing >> new translation. It works well and we manage to complete it before FC2 >> release. >> >> I don't see the benefit of the take over mechanism here. Can anybody >> explain? >> >> Thanks. >> >> ----- >> Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan >> >> >> -- >> Fedora-trans-list mailing list >> Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com >> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list > > > >-- >Dr. Bernd R. Groh Phone : +61 7 3514 8114 >Software Engineer (Localization) Fax : +61 7 3514 8199 >Red Hat Asia-Pacific Mobile: +61 403 851 269 >Disclaimer: http://apac.redhat.com/disclaimer/ > > > >-- >Fedora-trans-list mailing list >Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list > ================================================== hutuworm

2 1

account update
by Andrei Nestor 22 Jun '04

22 Jun '04

Hi all, Does anyone know the proper procedure for updating the ssh key for the cvs account? Thanks, Andrei

3 8

Re: Re: Annoucement: New translation status page is installed
by hutuworm 22 Jun '04

22 Jun '04

Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan, Set a expire time first, for example 3 hours, if the translator can't check in the updated module in 3 hours, then the [Take] status will be released? ======= 2004-06-22 17:55:55 Quote from your mail ======= >Bernd Groh wrote: >> If you have only 2 translators, then it may not be a problem, it gets >> more difficult with 10. And if you have 20+ translators to a language, >> peer-to-peer communication has proven not to be ideal. In this way, >> everyone is informed of who is doing what. You only have to [Take] a >> module once, and then it belongs to you until the translation is >> finished, or you [Release] it. We believed this mechanism to be >> extremely helpful. >> >> Regards, >> Bernd > >Okay, but what if one of the translator [Take] the module, but left it >there untranslated? Can other [Release] the module or it just locked there? > >If it locked there, can other translator [Kill] the translator, and >[Rob] the module? > >----- >Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan > > >-- >Fedora-trans-list mailing list >Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list > >. ================================================== hutuworm

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Re: Re: Annoucement: New translation status page is installed
by hutuworm 22 Jun '04

22 Jun '04

hutuworm, OK now. Thanks. :) [root@hutuworm anaconda]# cvs ci -m "update by hutuworm @ 20040621" zh_CN.po Testing zh_CN.po... **** Access allowed: hutuworm is in ACL for anaconda/po. Checking in zh_CN.po; /usr/local/CVS/anaconda/po/zh_CN.po,v <-- zh_CN.po new revision: 1.67; previous revision: 1.66 done Running syncmail... Mailing anaconda-commits-list(a)redhat.com... ...syncmail done. ======= 2004-06-22 13:23:00 Quote from your mail ======= >Sarah Wang, > > I've taken anaconda/po/zh_CN.po on the web, but... > >[root@hutuworm anaconda]# cvs ci -m "update by hutuworm @ 20040621" zh_CN.po >Testing zh_CN.po... >[anaconda/po/zh_CN.po] is not assigned to you. >**** Access allowed: hutuworm is in ACL for anaconda/po. >cvs server: Pre-commit check failed >cvs [server aborted]: correct above errors first! > >======= 2004-06-22 11:15:01 Quote from your mail ======= > >>Hello all, >> >>The new translation status page has been installed: >>http://elvis.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status >> >>You will notice that there is a new column called "Availability" for >>each package. It either says "Finished" (if the translation is 100%) or >>has a "Take" button (if the translation is not 100%). This feature is >>designed to minimise the commit conflicts and better coordinate the >>translation activity within the same language group. If you wish to >>finish the translation of a package, just click "Take" button, fill in >>your login and password. Then you will be able to finish and commit the >>translation to cvs. All cvs account holders should have received or soon >>to receive information about login name and password. >> >>Please feel free to ask if you have any questions and encountered any >>problems. >> >>Regards, >>Sarah >> >> >>-- >>Fedora-trans-list mailing list >>Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com >>http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list >> >>. > >================================================== > > >hutuworm > > > ================================================== hutuworm

2 1

Re: Annoucement: New translation status page is installed
by hutuworm 22 Jun '04

22 Jun '04

Sarah Wang, I've taken anaconda/po/zh_CN.po on the web, but... [root@hutuworm anaconda]# cvs ci -m "update by hutuworm @ 20040621" zh_CN.po Testing zh_CN.po... [anaconda/po/zh_CN.po] is not assigned to you. **** Access allowed: hutuworm is in ACL for anaconda/po. cvs server: Pre-commit check failed cvs [server aborted]: correct above errors first! ======= 2004-06-22 11:15:01 Quote from your mail ======= >Hello all, > >The new translation status page has been installed: >http://elvis.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status > >You will notice that there is a new column called "Availability" for >each package. It either says "Finished" (if the translation is 100%) or >has a "Take" button (if the translation is not 100%). This feature is >designed to minimise the commit conflicts and better coordinate the >translation activity within the same language group. If you wish to >finish the translation of a package, just click "Take" button, fill in >your login and password. Then you will be able to finish and commit the >translation to cvs. All cvs account holders should have received or soon >to receive information about login name and password. > >Please feel free to ask if you have any questions and encountered any >problems. > >Regards, >Sarah > > >-- >Fedora-trans-list mailing list >Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list > >. ================================================== hutuworm

2 1

German translation item in bugzilla
by Alan Cox 22 Jun '04

22 Jun '04

Would the .de translators care to look at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=62854 and let me know what to do with it

2 1

language...
by Blagoja Gjakovski 21 Jun '04

21 Jun '04

Hi, First, I'm not very experienced in working with CVS. I have a problem with adding anaconda support for Macedonian language. I get the anaconda.pot file from cvs, start to translate, and after that I send it to cvs like mk.po file. There was no problem. The problem occurs when I get the lang-table file from cvs, insert this line for Macedonian support Macedonian mk latarcyrheb-sun16 mk_MK.UTF-8 mk Europe/Skopje mk_MK.UTF-8 and when I try to send it to cvs, an error appears and tells me that this file is not for translation. Can somebody insert this line to lang-table file please? Which other files from anaconda cvs do I have to edit for inserting Macedonian support? Thanks, Blagoja

2 1

[Fwd: [Fedora-i18n-list] Dutch translators: Bugzilla #125194]
by Sarah Wang 21 Jun '04

21 Jun '04

2 1

[Fwd: [Fedora-i18n-list] Dutch translators: Bugzilla #125194]
by Leon Ho 21 Jun '04

21 Jun '04

Forwarding to fedora-trans as well as it may get more exposures over there. Leon -----Forwarded Message----- From: Alan Cox <alan(a)redhat.com> To: fedora-i18n-list(a)redhat.com Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Dutch translators: Bugzilla #125194 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:00:06 -0400 Can the Dutch translators please review bug #125194 and either close it or check it into the i18n cvs ? Thanks Alan -- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=125194 >From Bugzilla Helper: User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4.1) Gecko/20031114 Description of problem: A few times "skipped" is mistranslated as "overgeslaan" in the Dutch translation. This is not correct in Dutch, it should be "overgeslagen". Will attach a patch that fixes this. -- Fedora-i18n-list mailing list Fedora-i18n-list(a)redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list

1 0

Translation FAQ
by Sarah Wang 20 Jun '04

20 Jun '04

Hi everyone, I'm in the process of compiling a Fedora Translation Project FAQ. All suggestions and contributions welcome! Thanks, Sarah

8 12

Release Notes translations in FC3
by Andrew Martynov 13 Jun '04

13 Jun '04

Hello, Jeremy and Sarah! Is it possible to include translations of Release Notes to next release of Fedora Core? I suppose it will be more comfortable to end user to read Release Notes before / within installations in native language. Our translation team made translation to Russian of final Release Notes of FC2 in 3-4 hours, so I think it is possible to make translation for every language in last 1-2 days before Release. It will take little amount of time to announce and recieve translations but result will be great. I think it is not hard to write proper part of code in anaconda souce. Thank you, Andrew Martynov

4 3

Lao rabbithole (lo)
by Anousak Souphavanh 11 Jun '04

11 Jun '04

Attached is Lao locale which I created and submitted to glibc. Thanks, Anousak S.

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anaconda
by Josep Puigdemont 11 Jun '04

11 Jun '04

I found this string in anaconda: #: ../gui.py:638 ../text.py:283 #, python-format msgid "" "The following error was found while parsing your kickstart configuration:n\n" "%s" The question is if that "n" after the colon in "configuration:n" should be there or not. Jeremy? Thanks! /Josep

3 3

Spanish Translation
by Francisco García-Pastor 06 Jun '04

06 Jun '04

Hi! I just joined this list and I'd like to know how can I start working in spanish translation. Thank you. Darth Tradd -- Lo único malo de irse al cielo, es que ahí el cielo no se ve. Augusto Monterroso -- ______________________________________________ Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox. Powered by Outblaze

2 1

romanian
by Andrei Nestor 06 Jun '04

06 Jun '04

hi, is anybody coordinating the translation for romanian? thanks! andrei

4 4

Software Status Pages
by Bernd Groh 04 Jun '04

04 Jun '04

Hi All, the software status pages are back online. Sorry about the inconvenience. We're planning on rolling out the new status pages over the next few weeks, I'll keep you updated. Cheers, Bernd

1 0

Fw: Marathi rabbithole (mr)
by swapnil lale 03 Jun '04

03 Jun '04

-------Original Message------- From: swapnil lale Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 11:21:28 PM To: fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com Subject: Marathi rabbithole (mr) Respected Sir, Hello, I am Dr.S.V.LALE, working as a medical officer at Primary health centre, Shankarnar, Taluka-Malshiras, District- Solapur, Maharashtra. The Marathi version should be useful for 50% of maharashtrians who dont know English script & can only write & speak Marathi. Intentionally I neither referred to dictionary nor consulted professors of Marathi literature. I have not translated the words in literal sense; but described the action, the command in question performs. Marathi in Maharashtra is not homogenous either. Varhadi, Khandeshi, Konkani, Vidarbhi, Marathwadi are its different variations. But commonly used words are used here. I am trying to exchange Pundits word with those of Bolibhasha. Further Thesaurus, synonyms, spell check is also equally important Please give me a chance to contribute there also. Waiting for your reply.Please do mail me. DR S.V.LALE

1 0

Urdu rabbithole (ur)
by Muhammad Shakeel 02 Jun '04

02 Jun '04

2 1

Marathi rabbithole (mr)
by Fedora Maayboli 02 Jun '04

02 Jun '04

Hello Sir/Madam, I am interested in translating fedora for MARATHI language. I am going through the documentation. If you can send me some more information and starting points it will be very helpful for me. Also please mail me any other information / links, responsibility etc. Thanks & Regards Maayboli ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/

3 2

Kurdish rabbithole (ku)
by hunar 02 Jun '04

02 Jun '04

Hi, I would like to be involved in fedora project for Kurdish language, I hold BS in CS and currently working on MS in Computer Eng. My native language is kurdish. Please advice how to get involved Thanks Hunar

2 1

Sinhalese rabbithole (si)
by Kheeran D 02 Jun '04

02 Jun '04

Hi guys, What do I need to do to start translating Fedora into Sinhalese? Cheers, Kheeran

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Re: Fedora-trans-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 15
by G.P.Huizenga 01 Jun '04

01 Jun '04

Sarah could you do the same for me? i've made a mistake for the ssh key and i can't get it back could you reset my account? it's name:Gert Huizenga login:lefty cincerely Gert Huizenga Op maandag 31 mei 2004 18:00, schreef fedora-trans-list-request(a)redhat.com: > Send Fedora-trans-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-trans-list-request(a)redhat.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fedora-trans-list-owner(a)redhat.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fedora-trans-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Norwegian translation "timezone" (Egil Brodshaug) > 2. Kurdish rabbithole (ku) (hunar) > 3. account update (Dan Andrei Nestor) > 4. Re: account update (Sarah Wang) > 5. Re: account update (Dan Andrei Nestor) > 6. Re: account update (Sarah Wang) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 00:09:45 +0200 > From: Egil Brodshaug <brodshau(a)online.no> > Subject: Norwegian translation "timezone" > To: fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com > Message-ID: <200405300009.45651.brodshau(a)online.no> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > In the Norwegian translation the Svalbard (Spitzbergen) island is placed in > Antarctica. The correct is Arctic. > > Egil B. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 00:43:14 -0400 > From: "hunar" <hunar(a)britsys.net> > Subject: Kurdish rabbithole (ku) > To: <fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <000601c44600$9f225c30$6c0ba8c0@avalab> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, > I would like to be involved in fedora project for Kurdish language, I hold > BS in CS and currently working on MS in Computer Eng. My native language is > kurdish. Please advice how to get involved > > Thanks > > Hunar >

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trans June 2004