On Di, Nov 9 2021 at 23:11:26 +0100, Peter Boy <pboy(a)uni-bremen.de>
wrote:
@Daniel: Are you really doing development on a Server text console
using nano? That's what I would call 'hardcore development'. But you
can do that even with vim as default editor. 'Default' determines the
editor that system administration tools as crontab etc. use implicit
I am not aware, that I stated at any point, that I do development with
nano or on the console ^^ What I intended to say is:
----
As a software developer, I always consider the user perspective. If the
default editor on a given system is defined and designed to be vim, it
should be vim. If it is designed and defined to be nano, it should be
nano. If this definition is changing, I am absolutely ok with it. But
as long as this is not given, we should stick to the design decision
made by FESCO.
---
But I am not 1% invested in this. This is just my very personal
opinion as a mere Fedora Linux user. If you (the server wg) decides
something else, I will be 100% ok with it, too. There are far more
important things, than the default editor, that I don't use anyway. :)
Best regards,
Daniel
---
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On Di, Nov 9 2021 at 23:11:26 +0100, Peter Boy <pboy(a)uni-bremen.de>
wrote:
This topic is certainly of rather low relevance and we have more
important things to do on Fedora Server. And I did my research more
"just for fun“ and out of curiosity.
Nevertheless, two remarks.
(a)
I would like some of those who insist on "bug" and "need to fix" with
vehemence here to work with equal vehemence on the bug regarding the
difference between net-install and dvd-install (issue #32 / #48,
meeting & action
<
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fedora-server/fedora-server.2021-...>).
It has not been possible to solve this far more significant problem
for a good six months now. And with all our releases, we don't know
whether we haven't caught another problem like we did with Cockpit
back then.
(b)
I'm a big fan of consistency in the user interface. But the "user
experience" of a server system administrator at a text console and a
desktop user in a GUI is quite different, to put it mildly. There is
not much leeway for "consistency". And it makes absolutely no sense,
to want to treat such different things the same.
@Daniel: Are you really doing development on a Server text console
using nano? That's what I would call 'hardcore development'. But you
can do that even with vim as default editor. 'Default' determines the
editor that system administration tools as crontab etc. use
implicitly.
So, let’s keep vim as it currently is and focus on the important
subjects.
Best
Peter
> Am 09.11.2021 um 07:30 schrieb Daniel Schier
> <dschier(a)while-true-do.io <mailto:dschier@while-true-do.io>>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> from am mere software developer, operator and/or user perspective I
> consider this a bug, too. The design clearly describes, that nano is
> the default editor for „standard“.
>
> <
https://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault>
>
> Even if one wants to discuss this, that must be done somewhere
> else. For now, getting this fixed to align with design decisions
> should be prioritized.
>
> This shouldn’t be a matter of „tmux vs screen“, „vi vs
> nano“ or „bash vs *sh“, but a matter of consistent Fedora
> Linux experience.
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel
>
> ---
>
> ### Contact
> dschier(a)while-true-do.io <mailto:dschier@while-true-do.io>
> while-true-do.io
>
> ### Code
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>
github.com/daniel-wtd/
>
github.com/while-true-do/
>
>
> ### Social
> dschier @libera.chat
>
> ### Disclaimer
> If not stated otherwise all of my work is licensed under a Creative
> Commons Attribution 4.0 International License
> (
creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/).
>
>> On 9. Nov 2021, at 04:54, Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org
>> <mailto:mattdm@fedoraproject.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, let's please not revisit the fight? This was a
>> system-wide change
>> approved by FESCo. I do support Fedora Editions (and, for that
>> matter,
>> really, non-Editions) making their own choices for their intended
>> audience,
>> and I can _definitely_ see that certainly vi and probably vim is a
>> reasonable thing to have installed on Fedora Server, but if you
>> want to
>> deviate from the recently-approved change, that should go back to
>> FESCo.
>>
>> I know the degree of autonomy here is a little vague.... but
>> that's _why_ we
>> have FESCo, and the Editions working groups technically defined as
>> under
>> FESCo. That's the place to hash it out.
>>
>> Although, really, in this case, I hope we don't re-hash. If the
>> Server WG
>> _does_ have a decided desire to make this different, it'd be
>> helpful for the
>> case to come with data, and fit clearly into the story told by the
>> refreshed
>> PRD. And, also, please weigh the cost to documentation and support
>> in having
>> a different expectation for editor defaults.
>>
>> --
>> Matthew Miller
>> <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org <mailto:mattdm@fedoraproject.org>>
>> Fedora Project Leader
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