----- Original Message -----
I hope you don't mind me chiming in on a few relevant things from
I don't mind, it's quite the opposite actually, I appreciate your comments!
On Dec 03, 2014, at 09:37 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:
>In , it says "If the executables provide the same functionality
>independent of whether they are run on top of Python 2 or Python 3, then
>one version of the executable should be packaged. Currently it will be the
>python 2 implementation, but once the Python 3 implementation is proven to
>work, the executable can be retired from the python 2 build and enabled in
>the python 3 package." - this should be changed to prefer Python 3
Debian is doing this package by package. For example, /usr/bin/tox and
/usr/bin/gtimelog are shebanged to /usr/bin/python3.
Well it needs to be done case by case since some upstreams still don't support Python
3, but the point is that the guidelines should prefer and encourage usage of Python 3.
>(This is not really related to the switch, but more of a general
>, it says that "python 3 version of the executable gains a python3-
>prefix". This is IMO bad, since upstream projects tend to name the
>versioned binaries "foo-3.4, foo-3" or "foo3.4, foo3". We should
>of these - I'm not really certain which one of them. I tried to discuss
>this several times on distutils-sig mailing list, but without reaching a
>consensus. Either way, prefixing with python3- doesn't make sense to me,
>because it's not similar to any upstream way and you don't find the
>binaries under their names using tab completion (e.g. foo<tab> doesn't
>you about python3-foo).
In general, we don't provide two versions of the binaries. You won't find a
tox and tox-3 in /usr/bin. If we can provide a Python 3 version, and the
package maintainer has switched over, you'll only find the Python 3 version.
Users generally don't care what version Python their app runs on.
There are a few exceptions, but these are limited to cases where it actually
matters which version of Python the script runs. An example of this is nose
and nose2. Because these invoke different Python executable environments,
shebang of these scripts does matter. E.g, we provide /usr/bin/nosetests
(#!/usr/bin/python), /usr/bin/nosetests-2.7 (#!/usr/bin/python2.7),
/usr/bin/nosetests3 (#!/usr/bin/python3). (Looks like we're missing one for
3.4, oh well.)
The same goes for apps in Fedora. Assuming that Python 2 and Python 3 versions of the
binary provide the same functionality, there is only one variant. E.g. nosetests binary is
packaged for both Pythons, while pygmentize just generates some output, so it doesn't
need to be shipped in both 2 and 3 variants.
In these cases, the naming convention can get tricky. Usually, as
suggest, the unversioned script is the Python 2 version, specifically
#!/usr/bin/python (or less commonly #!/usr/bin/python2 for PEP 394
aficionados). foo-2.7 will be #!/usr/bin/python2.7 (we don't support
older than that). foo-3 will be #!/usr/bin/python3 and foo-3.4 will be
#!/usr/bin/python3.4. As you can see for nosetests-under-Python-3, we're not
Of course it gets a little trickier for things like nose2. nose2-3 is
Also, as mentioned in one of my previous mails, I think we should promote the naming
variant with dash, since otherwise it would end up being nose23/nose23.4...
>While I still think it'd be great to do this change,
it'll require a
>significant effort and that is better spent helping upstreams to port to
>Python 3 ATM.
+1! Getting more upstreams on Python 3 helps all Pythonistas. Debian 8
(Jessie) is in release freeze now but after that is released I will be doing
more work (along with others in our community) toward moving to a
predominantly Python 3 world. We have a couple of Debian-only packages which
are blocking a switch to Python3-installed-by-default and I'll be tackling
those first (similarly in Ubuntu). The next step is making sure that for
those upstreams that do support Python 3, that is available by default in the
archive. Then I think it's a matter of trying to switch any other scripts
which *can* run under Python 3, to do so.
For our progress, see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Churchyard/python3
ported a good portion of these upstreams and I'm sure some of them are common with
Debian. Most are ready and the rest are being worked on.
Thanks for your comments.