Re: Picture book....
by Doug Berry
Thanks for that, I'll contact them right away.
I need to change some advise I gave about the
high resolution and dpi quality we would need
for the pictures we might use.
Apparently we do not need to enhance them
passed say 300 dpi and not the higher figures
I have been quoting. And 300 dpi is nothing,
you could probably enhance most web graphics
to that and they would be okay.
300 dpi may well be obtainable with the
typical digital camera. So that means most
of the photos we get will be usable. Of course,
in a way, that may present additional problems:
we may get swamped.
I am asking pubs and printers for estimates
on a 130 page 4-color 8.5 by 11.0 Perfect
Bound plain paper book. We can change any
of that, but 8.5 by 11 is a very good size
because it is one of the standards. They
usually print everything that size or smaller
on US Letter or A4, and then cut it to size.
8.5 by 11 would only require edge trimming
which may get us a better price.
So, tell you what. It Xmas week next week.
everyone will be out this weekend, in the
malls. Wander into Borders or Barnes and
look at some of the photo and coffee table
books they have. Maybe we would want to go
bigger, or square? What do you think?
-- w Douglas Berry --
slasherzee(a)fedoraproject.org
--- On Fri, 12/19/08, Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Picture book....
> To: "Doug Berry" <slasherzee(a)yahoo.com>
> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 12:12 PM
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 12:09:20PM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> > Sorry about sending that email to the list, last
> > night. I wrote it to you back added the list address
> > somehow.
> >
> > I am calling and leaving messages with people, but
> > not hearing back. I want to get 6 or 8 bids on
> > printing costs, just for comparison.
> >
> > Do you know who in Red Hat, or who in Fedora might
> > know - if Red Hat has a regular printer they use?
> > I am assuming they must, and if so they might give
> > us a sweetheart deal, as a favor to a valued customer.
> >
> You might ask Máirín Duffy or Paul Frields. I don't
> work at Red Hat, but
> they do.
>
> --
> Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com>
> http://ianweller.org
> GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED
> 7C97 EFA8 4A36
> "Technology is a word that describes something that
> doesn't work yet."
> ~ Douglas Adams
15 years, 4 months
re: Picture Book
by Doug Berry
Ian Weller Wrote:
> I was still thinking we were going to put in stories of
> people. Are we
> going to do this on top of the image, or are we going to do
> it to the
> side (like I did in this mock up[1])?
>
> [1]:
> http://ianweller.fedorapeople.org/picture-book/mockup-spevack/mockup-spev...
This is great, Ian. We are definitely NOT locked into anything.
In fact, the more original the better.
We have all sorts of options concerning layout. So lets take a
typical book: lay it on a table; open the book by lifting up the
cover and half the pages until they are vertical; now, the page
you can see, on that part of the book, that is still laying on
the table is the BASE PAGE; the page on the part of the book you
are holding up is the BACK PAGE.
Most people put the more important content on the BASE PAGE. For
example, if you go to the library and look at one of those large
over-sized art books containing high quality reproductions of
some long-dead artists works; usually all of the artwork is on
the BASE PAGE. Any text or comments would be on the BACK PAGE.
This is an unofficial industry standard, but by no means absolute.
It is primarily based on the fact that for English readers (left
to right) all of whom are assumed to be right-handed, the most
comfortable way to hold a book is balanced in the palm of your
right hand. When doing this, the BASE PAGE is the easiest page
to read; you have to turn and reposition the book to read the
back page.
So, lets take the example Ian provided: mock up-spevack.png.
Laid out for the computer screen, where monitors show things
left to right with the widest dimension to the sides, it's
fine. But if we printed it, as is, on a book page, widest
dimension top to bottom it would be sideways. People would
have to turn the book to read the text and view the picture.
We can easily overcome this by rotating the picture and text.
Now we have picture on top, text on the bottom, or vice versa.
Or we can center the picture a partial ways down the page,
with some text on top and some text on the bottom.
So, for large rectangular whole-page images we should probably
place them on the base page. But we are not locked into just
that. We can use half page images: half image, half text. Or
we can use use web layout, smaller images where the text wraps
around the image.
But a important standard, where you have an image with related
text, is to have the image on the BASE PAGE and the text on the
adjoining BACK PAGE. When you have the book spread open, you
can look at the image, then turn your head and read the text.
Look and read, look and read.
This sort of thing can be done with half-page also. The point is,
however, that if we have stories or text that relates to a certain
image, we should keep them together if at all possible.
Along these lines, I a working up some example images of book page
layout, which I will post to the wiki asap.
-- Douglas Berry --
slasherzee(a)fedoraproject.org
15 years, 4 months
Fedora 10 How To
by Diego Escobar
Hi all:
Now, it's avaible a little "how to" for Fedora 10 named "Aprende Fedora 10"
(Learning Fedora 10). This guide is designed for new Linux and Fedora user's
and its part of spread Fedora on Latam and spanish speakers people (its in
Spanish ;) ). Installation, productivity, instant messaging until
customization are convered on easy way.
If you consider useful you can download it:
http://suservidorwp.googlepages.com/AprendeFedora10.pdf
Official Announce:
http://proyectofedora.org/colombia/manuales/%C2%A1aprende-fedora-10/
Suggestions are welcome.
Regards!
--
Diego Escobar
Fedora Ambassador for Colombia
Fedora Release 9 (Sulphur): Linux Kernel 2.6.25 + Gnome 2.22
15 years, 4 months
[Picture book] Quick update
by Ian Weller
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Picture_book
1) If you're interested in helping with this project, put your name in
the team members table.
2) Any information/ideas you have about the book, place on that page.
3) We need to extrapolate the timeline on there. I'll be putting in what
we need to get done in a week according to today's meeting.
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
15 years, 4 months
Self-Introduction: Ujjwol Lamichhane
by Ujjwol Lamichhane
Hi All,
I am Ujjwol Lamichhane(उज्जवल
लामिछाने)<https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ujjwol>from Kathmandu, Nepal.
And a A-Level Student at Malpi Institute. And my goal
on fedora is to promote free and open software through it and get into the
development of it. About my qualification, i have been using fedora from
fedora 1 and to f9 as fedora 10 is having problem(filled a bugzilla). As i
having been now working as a fedora ambassador, i have been blogging,
advocating and giving presentation on fedora. I think my localization skill
may also be relevant....
Regards
Ujjwol Lamichhane
15 years, 4 months
The Face of Fedora Video Campaign
by Jack Aboutboul
Hello All,
A number of times already we have discussed the development of a video
series highlighting the members of our community. The idea was
suggested multiple times by multiple different people, each one with
their own twist. Now that the release is done, and FUDCon is coming up,
I think we should discuss this in earnest. It could work out really
well if we solidified plans in the next couple of weeks because then we
can take advantage the 120 plus attendees at FUDCon for taping. I
already understand that these types of activities will be taking place
regardless, so might as well jump on the bandwagon.
I think we need to focus on 3 areas:
1. Concept: We have had 3-4 different suggestions on how this should be
framed and maybe its time to solidify the idea. What do we end up naming
it? Do we want to professionally produce it, or have user submitted
videos? Will we follow a general guideline for such videos or will it
be freeform? This will help people who end up
shooting/editing/aggregating video have a clear definition of what needs
to be filmed and how it needs to be edited.
2. Content: What do we want to have the people in the video, doing or
saying. What is the message?
3. Presentation: What is the Visual Motif?
For now, I have added it to the task list and have set up a wiki page
here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Face_of_Fedora and seeded
it with some content. Please feel free to add to it.
Hopefully we can discuss this at the meeting tomorrow as well.
What do you guys think?
Thanks
P.S. Colby, I would really like your thoughts on this too, from a video
professionals standpoint.
15 years, 4 months
Re: About Fedora coffee table book....
by Doug Berry
>Nicu Buculei wrote:
>Why do you make the assumption that we don't know to use GIMP? And we are >talking here about imported photos, not about newly created images.
The GIMP or any other imaging program is just a means to an end - it is a way of taking lesser quality images and enhancing them. You can bet that every photograph published in a book anywhere was gone over and enhanced at some point, either by the original photographer or some where down the line.
>Yes, we don't have the perfect conditions, but knowing the goal is print >we can work a bit more on the photos.
Exactly. The point may have gotten lost somewhere, but ultimately, it should be the picture taker who test prints and enhances their own photos before they submit them.
>Do you think we use our mobile phones to take photos? Most of the cameras >I saw used at the last FUDCon were DSLRs. Isn't this enough?
Maybe, maybe not. Most digital cameras are set to take lower resolution photos, simply so you can fit more pictures onto the storage disc. Taking more pictures is the assumed goal. For example, a digital photo shot at 150 dpi may come in at 100K. If you beefed it up to say 600 or1000 dpi it might top out at 100 megs. Most people set there camera resolutions as low as possible to get more pictures.
And digital cameras are still relatively expensive and not everybody in the Fedora World Community may have them. Many dinosaurs like me still use film.
>I don't remember seeing something about turning a profit.
I think someone said something about donating any proceeds to charity, or something like that.
>We have over 600 photos made at the Brno FUDCon and a lot more of them >were left out: http://www.flickr.com/groups/fudconbrno/pool/ (and we have >not planned for a book)
I'm sure we could probably come up with thousands of photos, worldwide. And if they are all high-res digital quality then that would make to job so much easier. But it is probably best to assume that most will not make the cut for one reason or another.
>How I can run trough a scanner my photos, they are already in a digital >format...
Are submissions for the book only open to persons who have digital cameras?
I would think that would rule out a lot of people from participating, right there.
>Scribus *is* part of Fedora, however, not part of the default install.
>I for one would be interested in reading a bit about how Scribus can be >used to create such a book with it.
Scribus is great, I have used it for so much and it keeps getting better and better. On the Scribus website, www.scribus.net, they list several books that were developed using Scribus. One new one is a Chinese language text book on the morphology of the leaf-beetle.
>How about using something like lulu.com as a publisher? For example >http://www.lulu.com/en/products/photo_books/?cid=en_product_portal
Lulu is okay, but they are pricey. Print-On-Demand is great for authors. It pays the highest royalties in the business. And the process, where no books are printed unless there is a paid order, is good too. As compared to large print runs for a fixed price. But if the books do not sale you have a garage full of books.
But what POD publishers do not do, or for which they charge a fortune, is all the little things that add quality to a book. Like: spell-checking, grammar-checking, fact-checking, cover art (many force you to use gaudy one-size-fits-all cover templates), and layout. Layout is the most important part of the process, and is something that authors should do themselves: authors or their Book Packagers.
So, as far as a publisher goes, POD is a viable option, but perhaps something like Cafe Press would be a better choice. Although I have never used them, as I understand and this may have changed, if we laid out and created the embedded PDF files containing the book, burn them onto a CD or DVD, send them to Cafe Press, for a nominal fee ($200.00, I've heard, but it may be more for a coffee table book) they assign an ISBN, create the bar-code and send the book to Lightning Source, their printer fulfiller.
Or we could bypass a publisher altogether and publish it ourselves. Fedora Publishing Project, and how you might ask would we accomplish that. Well, Red Hat must already be a digital or even a print publisher, perhaps we could spin-off a print franchise or something. Red Hat must also have some sort of relationship with a quality printer, for labels, brochures, advertising, etc. RED Hat may already have everything we would need. Such as ISBN numbers (block of ten around $300.00), since published software requires ISBN type control numbers, bar-codes, and the like. Packaging a DVD is not much different then packaging a book.
We already have the necessary software to layout and create all the elements of the book. Using Scribus, OO, Abiword, and the GIMP, we could create every part of the book ourselves. In fact, I think we already have everything we would need to make the book; it is more like assembling it then it is creating it from scratch.
Or we could take Fedora Publishing to Lightning Source. They are a division of Ingrams and they do not charge their publishers a fortune. They make their money printing and selling books. They charge a reasonable set-up fee, and a small per book printing charge. Then they take the order, print the book, and mail it to the customer . Publisher does none of that.
As an example of this, Scribus just had published their latest manual in book form. I am assuming they did all the layout and the book is coming out almost as we speak. Is different then out book, a 450 page tome, that costs 26 pounds. So this is just an example to show it can be done.
-- w Douglas Berry --
slasherzee(a)fedoraproject.org
15 years, 4 months
(IRC LOG) Meeting Minutes from 2008-12-18 Meeting
by Clint Savage
Fedora:Marketing Meeting
• Marketing Plan
Virtual Hackfest (organized by Larry Cafiero)
Dec 23rd 7pm EST (approx)
Coffee Table Book (Ian Weller)
Discussed style and format
Addressed some steps for moving forward
Report back within a week on costs and such
FUDCon Hackfest
Fedora Magazine (Jonathan Roberts)
Discussed linking with RHM
Shared the current url: http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/
Regular publication times
Could be online / pdf for special events (FUDCon, other conferences, etc)
Addressed some steps for moving forward
IRC log will be following shortly.
Cheers,
Clint
15 years, 4 months
IRC Log (for real) of Fedora Marketing meeting 2008-12-18
by Clint Savage
20:01 < themayor> here we go
20:01 < themayor> Marketing meeting now
20:01 * ianweller is here
20:01 * spevack waves
20:02 < JonRob> Jonathan Roberts
20:02 < themayor> inode0: welcome
20:02 < fugolini> hi
20:02 < ianweller> [[User:ianweller|Ian Weller]] ^_^
20:03 < themayor> haha, where did colby go thats what i want to know
20:03 < themayor> mizmo said she might come late if she does, shes in a meeting
20:04 < themayor> hey lcafiero , wcattey
20:04 < wcattey> G'day Jack.
20:04 < herlo> Clint Savage
20:04 < themayor> lets give it another minute and we will get started
20:04 * lcafiero plays the role of Larry Cafiero
20:05 < lcafiero> oops, sorry.
20:05 < themayor> as himself
20:05 * ianweller is still ianweller
20:05 * tatica MariaLeandro
20:05 * herlo doesn't buy that ianweller
20:05 < themayor> okay can i ask a favor of you guys? can someone play
secretary and take notes this week, so we can post them up to the wiki
and list
20:06 < JonRob> and is anybody logging?
20:06 * herlo is logging
20:06 < JonRob> would def be good to start keeping both on the wiki :)
20:06 * herlo doublechecks
20:07 < themayor> im logging, but i dont want to throw up a log, dont
you think its better we have a notes summary?
20:07 < fugolini> +1
20:07 < herlo> yep, I'm logging, I'll put it up
20:07 < herlo> both are good
20:07 < JonRob> i think both are good
20:07 < JonRob> lol althoguh seems quiet for volunteers on the notes summary!
20:07 < herlo> just mail out the log
20:08 < herlo> and link to it from the wiki
20:08 < themayor> okay whatever better than wasting time
20:08 * gregdek lurks.
20:08 < themayor> herlo: im gonna count on you then to take care of it, thanks
20:08 < herlo> np
20:08 * delhage lurks too
20:09 < themayor> alright, so first up, i wanna refer to the email
that i sent in response to jonrob's post about moving the team forward
20:09 < themayor> because there are a few action items there i think
we need to move on immediately
20:09 < themayor> mainly a new org structure
20:10 < themayor> i wanna make this brief, i dont want to start a
whole governance talk now
20:10 * JonRob notes he's just sent a response that might be useful
for later conversations
20:10 < herlo> can we get the link to the mail?
20:10 < themayor> but basically, at a minimum i think we need someone
who can send out a log each week of the meeting and post it to the
wiki and act as a corresponding secretary
20:11 < JonRob>
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2008-December/msg00...
20:11 < JonRob> is the thread
20:11 < themayor> because sometimes i get busy and cant post the log
or update the task list and things get lost in translation
20:11 < themayor> welcome abadger1999, your guys meeting is delayed
20:11 < herlo> I think I can now do that, since I'll be more available
at this time
20:11 < herlo> I'm happy to od the logs anyway
20:11 < herlo> not so good at summaries
20:12 < themayor> whats better 2pm eastern or 3pm eastern for everyone?
20:12 < fugolini> what's in UTC ?
20:12 < fugolini> 20 21?
20:12 < JonRob> fugolini: 19/20
20:12 * lcafiero is not affected by either. Both are fine.
20:12 < JonRob> i think
20:12 * fugolini think it too
20:12 < tatica> venezuela = 15:43
20:13 < mmcgrath> themayor: you should define it as eastern standard
time (EST), eastern daylight time (EDT) or Coordinated Universal Time
(UTC) :)
20:13 < herlo> EST is UTC -5 or UTC -6
20:13 < herlo> iirc
20:13 < herlo> depending on Daylight Saving time
20:13 < themayor> lets say 20 utc
20:14 < themayor> because we just need to not step on the
infrastructure meeting's toes
20:14 < ianweller> neither meeting time is good for me, i'm still in
school usually. ;)
20:14 * quaid dips in
20:14 < mmcgrath> themayor: 20:00 UTC is when our meeting starts (run
'date -u' to find utc)
20:15 < herlo> +1 on 20:00 UTC
20:15 < themayor> yeah i know
20:15 < themayor> we can move back to #mktg if need be
20:16 < themayor> based on what works best for people
20:16 < herlo> there's also #fedora-meeting-{1..4} iirc
20:16 < themayor> okay lets move discussion to the list because its
already 15 past
20:17 < themayor> okay so weve got herlo on notes, thats awesome
20:17 < themayor> next
20:17 < themayor> what we do we think of putting together a
marketing-release timeline and working on common tasks from that?
20:18 < fugolini> absolutely
20:18 < herlo> is this for every release?
20:18 < JonRob> see:
20:18 < JonRob>
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/BrainDump/Time_Based_Schedule
20:18 < JonRob> for an old draft of this idea
20:18 < themayor> yes
20:18 < JonRob> if we're all still on the same line i think we are
20:18 < themayor> there are certain things we need to do around every
release and i think it would be good if we established this as a
standard and set up milestones, so we know we are taking care of what
we need to do
20:19 < lcafiero> +1
20:19 * bpepple pokes his head in.
20:19 < themayor> its too bad rharrison isnt here
20:19 < themayor> because he started working on it last time
20:20 < themayor> anyone want to step up and take that on?
20:20 < JonRob> i don't think there's much to do
20:20 < themayor> say you have 2-3 weeks to put together a timeline
20:20 < themayor> ?
20:20 < JonRob> just build on what's one the link i just sent
20:20 < JonRob> and solicit feedback from list for further input
20:21 < themayor> JonRob: would you be able to take care of that then?
20:21 < fugolini> It's a reasonable time, maybe putting some check
point to see if we are still moving
20:21 < fugolini> *points
20:21 < JonRob> themayor: i wish i could, i've still 7000 words to
write in the next few weeks :(
20:21 < herlo> JonRob: I think your timeline could use some help
though. The events listed there (LinuxTag/FISL) only happen once a
year don't they?
20:21 < JonRob> herlo, yeah, i know it needs work
20:21 < herlo> I'm just not sure if this is the forum to have that discussion
20:22 < JonRob> but it's a good overview of the kind of activities
we'd want to include
20:22 < herlo> agreed
20:22 < herlo> It's something the Ambassadors could use to gauge
status and focus
20:22 * JonRob looks for msg from paul about this
20:22 < herlo> as well as anyone who is involved in just one part of
the marketing structure
20:22 < themayor> what do you guys think about not having events on
it? maybe just fudcons?
20:23 < herlo> I think the events are tantamount to promoting Fedora
20:23 < herlo> but that we can make them more generic
20:23 < herlo> common goals, themes, etc each release cycle
20:23 < fugolini> +1^10000000
20:24 < JonRob> i think the events provide us with a valuable chance
to gather marketing resources
20:24 < herlo> having a 'stage' to work within can be very helpful
20:24 < themayor> we need a good person, with full grasp of scope to
take this on
20:24 < themayor> because i dont think just anyone could necessarily
do it successfully
20:25 < themayor> no?
20:25 < herlo> I don't necessarily think it has to be one person...
20:25 < herlo> it could be a few
20:25 < ianweller> fugolini: you do realize that 1 to the ten
millionth is just 1, right? ;)
20:25 < themayor> well one to start, or a group yes
20:25 < fugolini> ianweller: I'm ignorant :D
20:25 < JonRob> what about if we follow docs lead and arrange a time
for a virtual hackfest on this?
20:25 < fugolini> a group it would be better
20:25 < JonRob> we could have it sorted in an hour or two between a
group working at one time
20:26 < herlo> my theory is that no one person knows everything about
Fedora and Marketing
20:26 < themayor> JonRob: yeah, thats an excellent idea
20:26 < themayor> what do the others think?
20:27 < fugolini> JonRob: maybe a gobby session, I know all the
planned gobby sessions weren't realized, but it could be the first
time
20:27 < herlo> werks for me
20:27 < JonRob> fugolini: sounds like it would be a good approach :_
20:27 < JonRob> :)
20:27 < herlo> fugolini: +1, gobby is great
20:27 < ianweller> gobby would be good
20:28 < lcafiero> +1
20:28 < themayor> alright so do we want to set a time now to meet up
and do this?
20:29 < herlo> well, docs is doing theirs during the holidays
20:29 < themayor> do we want to do it then or not?
20:30 < fugolini> I think it would be better, just
20:30 < lcafiero> When is docs doing theirs exactly?
20:30 < herlo> during the holidays
20:30 < fugolini> take a look at docs, in fact ...
20:30 * herlo doesn't have specific dates..
20:30 < lcafiero> Oh, okay, nothing set, then.
20:30 < lcafiero> thanks, herlo
20:31 < herlo> lcafiero: that's not what I meant toimply, I don't know
what their dates are
20:31 < lcafiero> How about making the meeting next week the time and date?
20:31 < herlo> +1
20:32 < fugolini> sounds good for me
20:32 < JonRob> do people realise next thursday is christmas day?
20:32 < themayor> yeah doesnt have to be next thursday necessarily
20:32 * herlo doesn't have anythign scheduled
20:32 < fugolini> mh ... ops ... I haven't a calendar in front of me ...
20:33 < lcafiero> And the next New Year's Eve
20:33 * lcafiero like herlo has nothing on my schedule, but
understands others do.
20:33 < themayor> what about next tuesday? does that work?
20:33 < lcafiero> ambassadors meet at 9 p.m. eastern, but other than
that, I'm okay.
20:34 < ianweller> tuesday is ok for me, what time?
20:34 < JonRob> i have nothing scheduled, but kinda like to keep it
that way for christmas day :p
20:34 < herlo> day after works for me
20:34 < herlo> Dec 26
20:35 < lcafiero> +1 to herlo's suggestion
20:35 * fugolini will be afk for those 2 days and for ny eve
20:35 < themayor> herlo: is the 23rd not good for you?
20:35 < fugolini> ok
20:35 < herlo> I'm fine with that too, but I'll be working
20:35 < herlo> so I'll only be available in the evening
20:35 < herlo> but I'm only one person
20:36 < herlo> so don't build it around me, I'm pretty available
20:36 < fugolini> herlo: I think we have to find the best time, and
I'm sure you have to be here, what's your preferred time?
20:36 < herlo> lol, okay, like I said, I'm open.
20:37 < herlo> evenings before Dec 24
20:37 < ianweller> mo! :)
20:37 < themayor> okay so if the majority of people can decide on a
time, we can always add stuff to the wiki and have the others who cant
make it work from there, right?
20:38 < fugolini> yes
20:38 < themayor> okay so what the word on the date? tuesday?
20:38 < ianweller> what time?
20:38 < themayor> whatevers good for everyone else?
20:39 < herlo> the 23rd is the FAmNA meeting, so with exception of the
9pm EST hour, that's a great day...
20:39 < themayor> afternoon or evening right?
20:39 < herlo> yup
20:39 < themayor> is 7pm eastern good for that?
20:39 < fugolini> UTC?
20:39 < herlo> for me, yes
20:40 < themayor> it should be 0.00 utc, i think, let me check
20:40 < ianweller> worksforme
20:40 < lcafiero> 7 eastern is good, as long as it's done by 9 eastern
20:41 < themayor> yeah 2 hours should be more than enough to make
sufficient progress and put it up on the wiki
20:41 < fugolini> themayor: i'll try to be there so
20:41 * fugolini has to leave in 30 minutes or so
20:42 < themayor> yeah me too, we will try to finish in 20
20:42 < themayor> alright lcafiero can we count on you to coordinate
the effort for next week?
20:42 < herlo> http://iquaid.org/2008/12/18/docs-virtual-hackfest-over-the-holidays/
<-- reference for docs hackfest
20:43 < lcafiero> Sure.
20:44 < themayor> okay awesome, so just send a message to the list and
to everyone personally to remind them, and someone take care of gobby
or use the wiki and irc
20:45 < themayor> okay great the next few minutes, i just want to talk
about the 3 things that came up this week
20:45 < themayor> the new initiatives
20:45 < themayor> so we have 3 things
20:45 < themayor> fedora book, fedora video, fedora magazine
20:45 < ianweller> yay, my topic
20:45 < themayor> yes, youre topic!!
20:46 < ianweller> you want me to talk about it?
20:46 < themayor> okay so the coffee table book
20:46 < themayor> yes go ahead
20:46 < ianweller> oh ok.
20:46 < ianweller> so we had plenty of great discussion so far on teh
coffee table book, and most of it has been helpful
20:47 < ianweller> the most recent comments we got i just replied to,
basically with a message saying "you seem to know what you're talking
about, please add it to the wiki page"
20:47 < ianweller> (which is at [[Picture book]] on the wiki, btw)
20:47 < ianweller> i'm gonna be working on a mockup for the pages
soonish because i need something to do over winter break
20:48 < ianweller> but other than that, lots of great comments on what
we're doing, and plenty of volunteer help at fudcon boston :)
20:48 < themayor> ianweller: awesome!
20:48 < ianweller> any other questions/comments?
20:48 < themayor> i think the main thing we need to figure out it cost per page
20:48 < themayor> based on that, thats really it, we have our page limit
20:48 < themayor> and then we figure out the theme
20:49 < ianweller> page size would be good to know, too
20:49 < herlo> I want to bring up that we should work toward a common
theme for each of these marketing items
20:49 < ianweller> 6"x9" seems somewhat standard
20:49 < themayor> well, yeah thats based on price
20:49 < ianweller> herlo: you mean the four foundations?
20:49 < herlo> and address how we do that
20:49 < themayor> the bigger the book the more expensive
20:49 < herlo> ianweller: not necessarily
20:49 < ianweller> i think this book would be a great way to finally
help unleash the four foundatinos upon the world
20:49 < herlo> ianweller: I mean that the book, video and magazine
should have a common look and feel/theme something like that
20:49 < JonRob> i haven't followed this convo, but a brief comment:
20:50 < ianweller> cuz the websites haven't changed, and there's
barely any information about them on the wiki. but that's not really
related
20:50 < JonRob> let's make sure all the sources are open!
20:50 < ianweller> herlo: oic
20:50 < ianweller> JonRob: most definitely!
20:50 < ianweller> :)
20:50 < ianweller> JonRob: that will be ensured throughout, everything
will either be CC-BY or CC-BY-SA (i think the latter)
20:50 < ianweller> no NC licenses
20:50 < JonRob> good :)
20:50 < JonRob> (lol, not that i expected anything else)
20:51 < ianweller> well, right ;)
20:51 < mizmo> you know if you guys go b&w with a few color plates it
could be a lot cheaper
20:51 < themayor> yes, we will need to it explicit that any
contribution on art work to this book is under a CC-by-SA license or
something along those lines
20:51 < ianweller> mizmo: yeah
20:51 < mizmo> b&w photography is very coffee table ish :)
20:51 < ianweller> also it can be made somewhat easier to work with, i think
20:51 < ianweller> you don't have to get colors *just* right,
especially in a transfer to cmyk
20:52 < JonRob> another question: is there a genuine audience here?
20:52 < ianweller> group photos or the like could be in color
20:52 < JonRob> i mean, other than FUDCon attendees?
20:52 < themayor> JonRob: theres definitely an audience
20:52 < ianweller> JonRob: this is one of those concepts where i think
the main audience is other fedora contributors, or major fedora fans.
20:52 < ianweller> or, heck, any fedora fans
20:53 < ianweller> mizmo: hey, can we ship a sheet of stickers with
every book order? ;)
20:53 < themayor> im sure it will be a hit inside of red hat
20:53 < herlo> JonRob: so I think this goes along with a bunch of
other initiatives, for instance I once thought it would be cool to
provide the Fedora Fan a complete set of all media from Fedora Core 1
to Fedora 10 for a small profit
20:53 < mizmo> ianweller, lol prolly
20:53 < herlo> still think it's cool actually, but haven't ever got it
off the ground
20:53 < ianweller> oh speaking of stickers, do we want to use the i am
fedora sticker as the one object that is required to be in an image
20:53 < ianweller> or what do we want to do
20:53 < themayor> haha, lets not jump to distribution before we get
production off and runninfg
20:53 < ianweller> there's been more debate over that than anything
else so far i think
20:53 < ianweller> themayor: ;)
20:54 < ianweller> inode0: you had some worries about using the i am
fedora sticker, what were those again?
20:54 < themayor> personally i dont think we should need s fedora
sticker in the pictures
20:54 < themayor> for example
20:54 < themayor> i would like to include a picture of me with my
license plate which is "TRTHPNS"
20:54 < JonRob> themayor: ha i love it!
20:54 < ianweller> ooh, nice license plate. took me a while though :)
20:54 < themayor> because thats why fedora is my home
20:55 < ianweller> the concept is to have somehting that ties together
the whole book
20:55 < themayor> for some reason certain girls think that is very dirty
20:55 < ianweller> but the more i think about that, the more i don't
think we need a specific object.
20:55 < themayor> ianweller: the people are what ties the book together
20:55 < themayor> the faces of fedora
20:55 < themayor> and you can opt to have anything else you wish to
show in the picture as well
20:55 < JonRob> anyone think this might be a cool thing to pull
upstreams/other free software projects into as well
20:56 < herlo> ianweller: or ties together the entire media components
we're discussing
20:56 < JonRob> heh sorry that comment totally defeats the object of
marketing fedora
20:56 < herlo> because it's bigger than just the book IMO
20:56 < themayor> JonRob: yes, but out of the scope of this specific
book for now. but yes it would be cool to have a "the face of linux
book"
20:56 < ianweller> herlo: well, yeah.
20:57 < herlo> and it's not just the people, it's what they do for
Fedora. There should be a reason for putting these people in the
book. It is, afterall, a meritocracy
20:57 < ianweller> yes
20:57 < JonRob> oo and are people including brief stories? espesh some
of the olpc stuff would be great
20:57 < ianweller> yes, we'll be having brief stories
20:57 < JonRob> cool....
20:57 * fugolini will be afk for few minutes, I have to repair a pc
to a neighbor
20:57 < herlo> right, that's where we should be going with marketing
in general. Getting these things out in front of people
20:57 * JonRob apologises for not following this conversation properly
20:58 < ianweller> JonRob: that's ok :) good to ask questions
20:58 < themayor> yes, i was thinking to have a layout like this, let
me know what you think:
20:58 < themayor> left side a picture of someone
20:58 < themayor> right side, a brief paragraph that they contribute
20:58 < themayor> or a quote maybe
20:58 < ianweller> (small detail: have page numbers inside fedora bubbles)
20:58 < themayor> yes!!!!
20:59 < ianweller> themayor: i'm thinking have the picture closer to
the outside, then closer to the binding, have a quote in larger print,
and then a description of the person in smaller print under that
20:59 < JonRob> is this possibly a convo for the mailing list?
21:00 < ianweller> JonRob: i was just about to say that.
21:00 < themayor> yes, it is
21:00 < ianweller> any other imoprtant questions before we move on to
the other fedora * stuff
21:00 < themayor> we need to figure out the next step, whether it be cost, etc
21:00 < herlo> themayor: is this one page per contributor?
21:00 < themayor> so lets talk on the list
21:00 < herlo> or two pages?
21:00 < ianweller> herlo: one page per contributor, plus group photos
on other pages (in color, i think)
21:00 < herlo> not that it matters, just curious and it can wait to be
discussed off line
21:00 < herlo> ahh, indeed
21:01 < themayor> but lets set a deadline of one month to figure out
how we go about going to step 2
21:01 < themayor> sound good?
21:01 < themayor> i think cost will be the major factor which
determines, layout and that will determine content
21:01 < ianweller> step 2 is at fudcon. let's set a deadline as next week :)
21:02 < ianweller> right now we need to worry most about how we're
going to get pictures, quotes, and stories
21:02 < ianweller> layout can come after fudcon
21:02 < herlo> I honestly think that all of this can go for the magazine too
21:02 < herlo> maybe the layout is different, but otherwise, the costs
are going to need to be researched
21:02 < themayor> yeah, but the magazine is a different layout
21:03 < herlo> as i stated :)
21:03 < themayor> i meant format
21:03 < themayor> sorry
21:03 < themayor> im dead tired
21:03 < herlo> nw
21:03 < themayor> lol
21:03 < themayor> anyway
21:03 < JonRob> heh, i think the magazine has morphed
21:03 < themayor> okay do we want to keep going or do people need to scatter
21:03 < herlo> I'm here
21:03 < themayor> JonRob: spevack has some good thoughts on the magazine
21:03 < themayor> okay
21:03 < JonRob> ok...look forward to discussions on that
21:04 < themayor> so lets set a deadline for next week, althought, i
dont know how far we will get, alot of the world is on vacation
starting tomorrow
21:04 < themayor> and we can do what we need to do at fudcon regardless
21:04 < themayor> but anyway, okay, next week
21:04 < themayor> magazine
21:04 < themayor> spevack: do you want to talk about it a little?
21:05 < spevack> me?
21:05 < spevack> i do?
21:05 < spevack> i have thoughts?
21:05 < themayor> yes what we spoke about
21:06 < themayor> i liked them, and we can work from there
21:06 < spevack> yeah... i'm trying to remember what I said. I think
that one of my suggestions was that when I hear "magazine"
21:06 < spevack> as opposed to "news"
21:06 < spevack> i think of longer-form articles, more personal than
informative, maybe a slower release cycle, and (jack i think you
suggested this one) actually printing something and distributing it at
fudcon
21:06 < ianweller> introduce me a little to this magazine concept please :)
21:07 < ianweller> oh ok
21:07 < JonRob> so we're moving away from the idea of a rhm style blog?
21:07 < spevack> ianweller: you're too young -- back before the
intarwebs, they used to write articles on paper and print them in
glossy form that came out once a week.
21:07 < ianweller> spevack: :P
21:07 < spevack> JonRob: i dunno. i just have ideas. i don't mandate
anything :)
21:07 < ianweller> spevack: i'm not *that* young.
21:07 < JonRob> spevack: lol, just wondered if there was a concensus developing
21:08 < ianweller> spevack: it can defeinitely be typeset and made
into pdf btw, you print it out for events and stuff though
21:08 < ianweller> although i'm sure you know that already
21:08 < themayor> i think maybe having something online that we can
transpose to print once every release would be the super bomb
21:08 < spevack> themayor: right
21:08 < JonRob> themayor: yeah that's awesome
21:08 < JonRob> we could even produce more regularly online
21:08 < spevack> JonRob: i'd see it as an online medium first, but
that occasionally making something printed would be kinda pimp
21:08 < JonRob> and then tidy up and produce the best stuff for print
21:08 < spevack> JonRob: exactly
21:08 < JonRob> yeah that's v. cool
21:08 < spevack> JonRob: think of the "fedora centerfold" possibilities.
21:09 < JonRob> also, would be great to have something that sumarises
"the last 6 months in fedora"
21:09 < herlo> once a quarter would be ideal IMO
21:09 < JonRob> spevack: already got my bikini ready
21:09 * herlo pukes a little in his mouth
21:09 < JonRob> heh
21:09 < herlo> :-P
21:09 < themayor> JonRob: thats a great visual for me to have before i
am about to go to sleep
21:09 < themayor> ;)
21:09 < spevack> themayor: did i have any other good ideas that i've forgotten?
21:09 < spevack> :)
21:10 * gregdek will be sure to wax.
21:10 < JonRob> ha gregdek just crossed a line?!
21:10 < themayor> im sure many but ive since forgotten them too
21:10 < JonRob> my q, how do we move this forward?
21:10 < JonRob> two major things:
21:10 < JonRob> a)infrastructure
21:10 < JonRob> b)contributors
21:11 < JonRob> both kinda failed in all my attempts to push this
forward until now
21:11 < JonRob> kinda==completely
21:11 < themayor> what do you guys thing about using django?
21:11 * herlo loves it
21:11 < herlo> but everything I've seen in Fedora is TG
21:12 < JonRob> themayor: keep in mind that we'd have to work closely
with the current infra standards
21:12 < JonRob> i.e. security, maintainability
21:12 < JonRob> deployability in fedora repos
21:12 < JonRob> not sure if we'd want to write our own solution?
21:12 < themayor> yes we would need to coordinate with docs as well
maybe, since they are experts in formatting the stuff that will aid us
in printing it afterwards
21:13 < JonRob> also, gregdek had some talk a while ago about
collaborating with rhm?
21:13 < themayor> yes, gregdek have you any thoughts to add?
21:14 < gregdek> RHM feels like a dead man walking to me.
21:14 < themayor> hes busy waxing
21:14 < JonRob> gregdek: oh no, that's sad?
21:14 < gregdek> Just so few resources right now for it.
21:15 < themayor> gregdek: ah okay you answered my questions
21:15 < themayor> so maybe this is at a good place in time, where a
community effort can take over something like that
21:15 < gregdek> Yep.
21:15 < JonRob> yeah, seems like this kind of thing is pretty heft effort
21:15 < JonRob> themayor: yeah would be v. cool
21:15 * quaid personally would open devfu.redhatmagazine.com to
anyone who wants to help :)
21:15 < themayor> na what does rhm run on now wordpress?
21:15 < quaid> yes
21:16 < quaid> wordpress.com for Dev Fu, actually
21:16 < JonRob> we got close to having a wp deployment on fedora systems
21:16 < quaid> so adding people from the world is easy
21:17 < themayor> maybe thats the extent of what we need really with
sojme CSS loving
21:17 < JonRob> themayor, we already have a theme that fits in with fedora
21:17 < JonRob> we got quite a way along with this
21:17 < JonRob> but have never managed to finish it :(
21:17 < themayor> okay so lets finish this time
21:18 < themayor> we have a large pool of people to draw contributors
from, i dont think we need to worry
21:18 * JonRob hates to note way too many of his projects die a slow death!
21:18 < themayor> if we build it, they will come
21:18 < JonRob> themayor: i hope you're right
21:18 < themayor> we just need to stay on top of these things and with
a little hard work and a lot of good luck we will do well, i dont have
a doubt
21:18 < JonRob> in the test one, even when i explicitly solicited for
help we got very little
21:18 < themayor> we can do these things easily, it just requires persistence
21:19 < JonRob> http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/
21:19 < JonRob> for reference
21:20 < JonRob> that was an attempt at figuring out writing/publishing workflow
21:20 < themayor> nice
21:20 < themayor> ive been there before like 2-3 times
21:20 < JonRob> yeah, some of the content got a lot of views
21:20 < JonRob> well, the interview and fwn
21:20 < JonRob> both are extremely popular within the community and outside
21:20 < themayor> i think the next step is to decide infrastructure
21:21 < themayor> and guys dont kill me if im not trying to think of
big picture things, theres a reason
21:22 < themayor> i just think if we pick small steps and are
persistent and make sure they get done we will make progress and fuel
more progress
21:22 < JonRob> themayor: i think it's a pretty good way to move
21:22 < themayor> so lets see what mmcgrath has to say about this and
take it from there, i can wrangle contributors
21:22 < JonRob> lol, mmcgrath might be sick of hearing about it
21:22 < JonRob> i've been bugging him and a few infra people about it
for many months
21:23 < themayor> haha, yeah, well, thats what you get when you run the servers
21:23 * ianweller has to run
21:23 < JonRob> have we lost people?
21:23 * JonRob could do with leaving soon
21:23 < themayor> alright, so lets table the rest of the disucssion,
so we have 3 things for next week
21:23 < themayor> 1. the meeting/gobby session
21:24 < themayor> 2. figuring out about the magazine
21:24 * quaid notes 'to table' has opposite meanings across the Atlantic
21:24 < themayor> 3. try to figure out next steps for the magazine
21:25 < themayor> sound good to everyone?
21:25 < JonRob> lol magazine twice?
21:26 < themayor> i mean book
21:26 < themayor> sorry
21:26 < JonRob> heh in that case sounds good
21:27 < JonRob> was nice to speak with everyone :)
21:27 < baig> !
21:27 < herlo> k, I have all that
21:28 < themayor> alright thats a wrap
21:28 < themayor> thanks guys
21:28 < herlo> g'day
21:28 < themayor> awesome
15 years, 4 months