Hi all,
I would like to ask something from this list to help me understand a bit more of Fedora. I am new to the list, and I'm currently trying to assimilate more information through the Fedora Project wiki before I can contribute. This is important for me to know.
- How does Fedora positions itself amongst other distributions. What values do we try to transmit, what image should be presented to the users (new and current).
- How is differentiation presented in communication.
- What is main segment we trying to reach.
- What is the role of productivity in Fedora communication.
- What are the main goals at a short term (1 year).
Thanks in advance,
Nelson.
PS: feel free to point any online documentation that might exist regarding this points.
On Thu 18 February 2010 9:11:37 am Nelson Marques wrote:
- How does Fedora positions itself amongst other distributions. What
values do we try to transmit, what image should be presented to the users (new and current).
I'm not qualified to answer the others imo, but I can point you to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foundations and of course the overview https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview
I assume you've already read both, but they outline what we do and how we position ourselves among distros:
The Fedora Project's mission is to lead the advancement of free and open source software and content as a collaborative community.
Among other similar statements... on those two pages
Take a look at this blog post by John Poelstra: http://poelcat.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/getting-fedora-out-of-the-if-then-lo...
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:11, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to ask something from this list to help me understand a bit more of Fedora. I am new to the list, and I'm currently trying to assimilate more information through the Fedora Project wiki before I can contribute. This is important for me to know.
- How does Fedora positions itself amongst other distributions. What
values do we try to transmit, what image should be presented to the users (new and current).
How is differentiation presented in communication.
What is main segment we trying to reach.
What is the role of productivity in Fedora communication.
What are the main goals at a short term (1 year).
Thanks in advance,
Nelson.
PS: feel free to point any online documentation that might exist regarding this points.
-- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Thanks. This article shows a couple of thoughts, some of them might be catastrophic, and segmenting the market isn't a bad thing, in corporate business it's most likely the best strategy, and it can and should be used also on projects like this one. It's probably sad to point this example, but look at what Canonical is doing. They segmented the market in a attractive way and they are starting to collect from it (not that others don't do it, but they do it in a more shy way).
Looks like we have a challenge :)
I'm gonna keep lurking for some more time and try to get inside the Fedora mentality and hopefully might help in the near future, once I'm relived from other ongoing projects.
From what I could understand, two goals to reach:
- Increase the number of Fedora users - Increase the number of Fedora contributors
If this is correct, within up to a month, I'm gonna submit a small paper for review on this list with a small strategy on how we might accomplish that.
Thanks for all who have contributed pointing good sources of information on my quest for data.
Nelson.
On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 06:36 -0600, Kamisamanou Burgess wrote:
Take a look at this blog post by John Poelstra: http://poelcat.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/getting-fedora-out-of-the-if-then-lo...
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:11, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
Hi all, I would like to ask something from this list to help me understand a bit more of Fedora. I am new to the list, and I'm currently trying to assimilate more information through the Fedora Project wiki before I can contribute. This is important for me to know. - How does Fedora positions itself amongst other distributions. What values do we try to transmit, what image should be presented to the users (new and current). - How is differentiation presented in communication. - What is main segment we trying to reach. - What is the role of productivity in Fedora communication. - What are the main goals at a short term (1 year). Thanks in advance, Nelson. PS: feel free to point any online documentation that might exist regarding this points. -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
-- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.google.com/profiles/kamisamanou http://identi.ca/kamisamanou
-- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
Thanks. This article shows a couple of thoughts, some of them might be catastrophic, and segmenting the market isn't a bad thing, in corporate business it's most likely the best strategy, and it can and should be used also on projects like this one.
What works in corporate settings rarely works well in community settings.
It's probably sad to point this example, but look at what Canonical is doing. They segmented the market in a attractive way and they are starting to collect from it (not that others don't do it, but they do it in a more shy way).
Looks like we have a challenge :)
I'm gonna keep lurking for some more time and try to get inside the Fedora mentality and hopefully might help in the near future, once I'm relived from other ongoing projects.-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
From what I could understand, two goals to reach:
- Increase the number of Fedora users
- Increase the number of Fedora contributors
Well I'd say that's a misconception. Fedora is concerned with growing it's contributor base and advancing the state of free software.
Fedora isn't at all concerned with the "getting mindshare above all else" type of mentality that most orgs have. While we want and like users, I don't think that we actively try and seek out what people want as driving our decisions.
If this is correct, within up to a month, I'm gonna submit a small paper for review on this list with a small strategy on how we might accomplish that.
Thanks for all who have contributed pointing good sources of information on my quest for data.
Nelson.
On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 06:36 -0600, Kamisamanou Burgess wrote:
Take a look at this blog post by John Poelstra: http://poelcat.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/getting-fedora-out-of-the-if-then-lo...
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:11, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to ask something from this list to help me understand a bit more of Fedora. I am new to the list, and I'm currently trying to assimilate more information through the Fedora Project wiki before I can contribute. This is important for me to know.
- How does Fedora positions itself amongst other distributions. What values do we try to transmit, what image should be presented to the users (new and current).
- How is differentiation presented in communication.
- What is main segment we trying to reach.
- What is the role of productivity in Fedora communication.
- What are the main goals at a short term (1 year).
Thanks in advance,
Nelson.
PS: feel free to point any online documentation that might exist regarding this points.
-- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
-- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.google.com/profiles/kamisamanou http://identi.ca/kamisamanou
-- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
-- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 03:18:03PM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
From what I could understand, two goals to reach:
- Increase the number of Fedora users
- Increase the number of Fedora contributors
Well I'd say that's a misconception. Fedora is concerned with growing it's contributor base and advancing the state of free software.
Fedora isn't at all concerned with the "getting mindshare above all else" type of mentality that most orgs have. While we want and like users, I don't think that we actively try and seek out what people want as driving our decisions.
At the same time, though, we're trying to identify places where we are actually *driving away* users. Through more attention to these problems and the many easy fixes we could put in place, we can do better on both of the goals Nelson mentions.
Our aim is not to carpet-bomb the planet with CDs, nor to just accumulate fans. We prefer to define and follow more sustainable practices, aided by strong engineering and good upstream partnership with the projects creating important and innovative software.
On Sat, 2010-02-20 at 11:53 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 03:18:03PM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
From what I could understand, two goals to reach:
- Increase the number of Fedora users
- Increase the number of Fedora contributors
Well I'd say that's a misconception. Fedora is concerned with growing it's contributor base and advancing the state of free software.
Fedora isn't at all concerned with the "getting mindshare above all else" type of mentality that most orgs have. While we want and like users, I don't think that we actively try and seek out what people want as driving our decisions.
At the same time, though, we're trying to identify places where we are actually *driving away* users. Through more attention to these problems and the many easy fixes we could put in place, we can do better on both of the goals Nelson mentions.
Our aim is not to carpet-bomb the planet with CDs, nor to just accumulate fans. We prefer to define and follow more sustainable practices, aided by strong engineering and good upstream partnership with the projects creating important and innovative software.
My idea is not to change how Fedora operates neither boss people around. I shouldn't go technical on this one but this is important to mention, and it's about segmentation. It is important to segment your audience (doesn't mean you need to change your product). Keep in mind that Fedora is aimed for a international community, and that very community has different goals and perceives value (from Fedora) in a different way from individual to individual. You need to segment your communication, else it won't work.
There are other things that Fedora has that need some work, I'll point two of them that need a lot of work at communication level:
- SELinux (being rivaled by Novell's AppArmour) - Red Hat FOSS drivers (check the output of several communities about this news, ex: slashdot threat).
The last one points clearly for several types of users, those who don't really need outstanding 3D performance, and those who explore this subject on a more technical point of view and show different advantages.
Threads like the one on Slashdot could be avoided if there was good communication around that topic. Another disruptive fight is going around GNOME and gnome-shell vs gnome-panel.
All of this could be sorted out by marketing. Those who believe that Marketing is a sales force, are completely wrong. Marketing has the most powerful diagnose tools at it's service for issues like this one. See it this way: If you are sick, you search for a doctor for a diagnose and then you get a set of conditions to fulfill in order to improve your situation. An organization should use Marketing not only to support sales, advertising and so on, but to diagnose as well itself and it's product in order to achieve it's goals. Marketing might provide a good set of procedures to improve it.
Everyone forgets a single point, Fedora at some point promotes the technology created by it's sponsor Red Hat. If you fall back in users related to other distributions supported by Red Hat competitors, eventually in a 10/15 year time frame, all this users that are currently using other distro's will hit the market, and they will flavour as their tools those they work for a long time.
I might have a degree on Marketing and not on Engineering, which doesn't mean I've worked years packaging software the former Center of Telecommunication Studies in Portugal (nowadays Portugal Telecom Innovation S.A.). I used SuSE back then at home, and was forced to work with Red Hat, and since then I'm far more comfortable with Red Hat/Fedora than with SuSE itself. If I needed to choose between distro's taking productivity in mind, I would go Red Hat for sure because of the strong background I have with it.
This will apply to the users that somehow people want to neglect. Eventually the Industry and it's professionals at a later stage will reflect what we do today.
The higher the number of users, the better it will serve Fedora and it's sponsors in the future. I might be wrong on this.
To finish, people can't expect to keep a community if we don't provide them challenges and if we don't incentivate them to cooperate. By statements like:
"I don't think that we actively try and seek out what people want as driving our decisions."
We are doing exactly what we shouldn't, marginalizing the users. We don't have to be driven by what people want, but we should try to understand their needs and provide the right communication segmented for them in order that we can offer them a product that they recognize value on it.
Expectation > Satisfaction = Loose situation Satisfaction > Expectation = Win Situation (and you can only achieve this if you don't neglect your users and if you understand then, and most important of all, if we can answer to their needs).
From the marketing point of view, Quality is not achieved by security, stability or whatever, it comes as easy as:
Quality = Expectation - Satizfaction
Positive = Quality Negative = No Quality
This is how users perceive Quality. If we can asnwer them accordingly, I would believe that everyone has something to win, Fedora as a community, Fedora as a Product, Red Hat as a sponsor and technology enabler and above all, all users.
Keep in mind the following as it is always true:
Organization Goal: Profit (might come in different flavours, capital/finantial profit, social profit, etc), for Fedora community I would recon it would translate better into social profit. Organization Means: Product/Service (always) Organization Target: People (always)
People/Consumers/Users, whatever is always the key element. Neglecting their role on this "symbiotic ecosystem" is not wise.
There is no point in being a King without people to rule.
NM
PS: This is a personal opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
-- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com
+1
--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
From: Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt Subject: Re: A question to this list regarding Fedora as a Product To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base" marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 10:23 AM
On Sat, 2010-02-20 at 11:53 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 03:18:03PM -0500, David Nalley
wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Nelson Marques
07721@ipam.pt wrote:
From what I could understand, two
goals to reach:
- Increase the number of Fedora users - Increase the number of Fedora
contributors
Well I'd say that's a misconception. Fedora is concerned with growing it's contributor
base and advancing
the state of free software.
Fedora isn't at all concerned with the "getting
mindshare above all
else" type of mentality that most orgs have.
While we want and like
users, I don't think that we actively try and
seek out what people
want as driving our decisions.
At the same time, though, we're trying to identify
places where we are
actually *driving away* users. Through more
attention to these
problems and the many easy fixes we could put in
place, we can do
better on both of the goals Nelson mentions.
Our aim is not to carpet-bomb the planet with CDs, nor
to just
accumulate fans. We prefer to define and follow
more sustainable
practices, aided by strong engineering and good
upstream partnership
with the projects creating important and innovative
software.
My idea is not to change how Fedora operates neither boss people around. I shouldn't go technical on this one but this is important to mention, and it's about segmentation. It is important to segment your audience (doesn't mean you need to change your product). Keep in mind that Fedora is aimed for a international community, and that very community has different goals and perceives value (from Fedora) in a different way from individual to individual. You need to segment your communication, else it won't work.
There are other things that Fedora has that need some work, I'll point two of them that need a lot of work at communication level:
- SELinux (being rivaled by Novell's AppArmour)
- Red Hat FOSS drivers (check the output of several
communities about this news, ex: slashdot threat).
The last one points clearly for several types of users, those who don't really need outstanding 3D performance, and those who explore this subject on a more technical point of view and show different advantages.
Threads like the one on Slashdot could be avoided if there was good communication around that topic. Another disruptive fight is going around GNOME and gnome-shell vs gnome-panel.
All of this could be sorted out by marketing. Those who believe that Marketing is a sales force, are completely wrong. Marketing has the most powerful diagnose tools at it's service for issues like this one. See it this way: If you are sick, you search for a doctor for a diagnose and then you get a set of conditions to fulfill in order to improve your situation. An organization should use Marketing not only to support sales, advertising and so on, but to diagnose as well itself and it's product in order to achieve it's goals. Marketing might provide a good set of procedures to improve it.
Everyone forgets a single point, Fedora at some point promotes the technology created by it's sponsor Red Hat. If you fall back in users related to other distributions supported by Red Hat competitors, eventually in a 10/15 year time frame, all this users that are currently using other distro's will hit the market, and they will flavour as their tools those they work for a long time.
I might have a degree on Marketing and not on Engineering, which doesn't mean I've worked years packaging software the former Center of Telecommunication Studies in Portugal (nowadays Portugal Telecom Innovation S.A.). I used SuSE back then at home, and was forced to work with Red Hat, and since then I'm far more comfortable with Red Hat/Fedora than with SuSE itself. If I needed to choose between distro's taking productivity in mind, I would go Red Hat for sure because of the strong background I have with it.
This will apply to the users that somehow people want to neglect. Eventually the Industry and it's professionals at a later stage will reflect what we do today.
The higher the number of users, the better it will serve Fedora and it's sponsors in the future. I might be wrong on this.
To finish, people can't expect to keep a community if we don't provide them challenges and if we don't incentivate them to cooperate. By statements like:
"I don't think that we actively try and seek out what people want as driving our decisions."
We are doing exactly what we shouldn't, marginalizing the users. We don't have to be driven by what people want, but we should try to understand their needs and provide the right communication segmented for them in order that we can offer them a product that they recognize value on it.
Expectation > Satisfaction = Loose situation Satisfaction > Expectation = Win Situation (and you can only achieve this if you don't neglect your users and if you understand then, and most important of all, if we can answer to their needs).
From the marketing point of view, Quality is not achieved by security, stability or whatever, it comes as easy as:
Quality = Expectation - Satizfaction
Positive = Quality Negative = No Quality
This is how users perceive Quality. If we can asnwer them accordingly, I would believe that everyone has something to win, Fedora as a community, Fedora as a Product, Red Hat as a sponsor and technology enabler and above all, all users.
Keep in mind the following as it is always true:
Organization Goal: Profit (might come in different flavours, capital/finantial profit, social profit, etc), for Fedora community I would recon it would translate better into social profit. Organization Means: Product/Service (always) Organization Target: People (always)
People/Consumers/Users, whatever is always the key element. Neglecting their role on this "symbiotic ecosystem" is not wise.
There is no point in being a King without people to rule.
NM
PS: This is a personal opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
-- Paul W. Frields
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4
0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
- - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
Where
open source multiplies: http://opensource.com
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
-- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 06:23:19PM +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:
On Sat, 2010-02-20 at 11:53 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 03:18:03PM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
From what I could understand, two goals to reach:
- Increase the number of Fedora users
- Increase the number of Fedora contributors
Well I'd say that's a misconception. Fedora is concerned with growing it's contributor base and advancing the state of free software.
Fedora isn't at all concerned with the "getting mindshare above all else" type of mentality that most orgs have. While we want and like users, I don't think that we actively try and seek out what people want as driving our decisions.
At the same time, though, we're trying to identify places where we are actually *driving away* users. Through more attention to these problems and the many easy fixes we could put in place, we can do better on both of the goals Nelson mentions.
Our aim is not to carpet-bomb the planet with CDs, nor to just accumulate fans. We prefer to define and follow more sustainable practices, aided by strong engineering and good upstream partnership with the projects creating important and innovative software.
My idea is not to change how Fedora operates neither boss people around. I shouldn't go technical on this one but this is important to mention, and it's about segmentation. It is important to segment your audience (doesn't mean you need to change your product). Keep in mind that Fedora is aimed for a international community, and that very community has different goals and perceives value (from Fedora) in a different way from individual to individual. You need to segment your communication, else it won't work.
There are other things that Fedora has that need some work, I'll point two of them that need a lot of work at communication level:
- SELinux (being rivaled by Novell's AppArmour)
- Red Hat FOSS drivers (check the output of several communities about
this news, ex: slashdot threat).
The last one points clearly for several types of users, those who don't really need outstanding 3D performance, and those who explore this subject on a more technical point of view and show different advantages.
Threads like the one on Slashdot could be avoided if there was good communication around that topic. Another disruptive fight is going around GNOME and gnome-shell vs gnome-panel.
All of this could be sorted out by marketing. Those who believe that Marketing is a sales force, are completely wrong. Marketing has the most powerful diagnose tools at it's service for issues like this one. See it this way: If you are sick, you search for a doctor for a diagnose and then you get a set of conditions to fulfill in order to improve your situation. An organization should use Marketing not only to support sales, advertising and so on, but to diagnose as well itself and it's product in order to achieve it's goals. Marketing might provide a good set of procedures to improve it.
[...snip...]
Nelson, you make some very good points in your email. So my next question is, how would you personally like to help us improve our communications around SELinux and FOSS drivers? I know there are other places we could improve communications, but since you pointed these two out, we have a good place to start.
How would you propose to solve this problem, and can we count on your assistance to help make that solution a reality?
On Mon, 2010-02-22 at 09:10 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 06:23:19PM +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:
On Sat, 2010-02-20 at 11:53 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 03:18:03PM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
From what I could understand, two goals to reach:
- Increase the number of Fedora users
- Increase the number of Fedora contributors
Well I'd say that's a misconception. Fedora is concerned with growing it's contributor base and advancing the state of free software.
Fedora isn't at all concerned with the "getting mindshare above all else" type of mentality that most orgs have. While we want and like users, I don't think that we actively try and seek out what people want as driving our decisions.
At the same time, though, we're trying to identify places where we are actually *driving away* users. Through more attention to these problems and the many easy fixes we could put in place, we can do better on both of the goals Nelson mentions.
Our aim is not to carpet-bomb the planet with CDs, nor to just accumulate fans. We prefer to define and follow more sustainable practices, aided by strong engineering and good upstream partnership with the projects creating important and innovative software.
My idea is not to change how Fedora operates neither boss people around. I shouldn't go technical on this one but this is important to mention, and it's about segmentation. It is important to segment your audience (doesn't mean you need to change your product). Keep in mind that Fedora is aimed for a international community, and that very community has different goals and perceives value (from Fedora) in a different way from individual to individual. You need to segment your communication, else it won't work.
There are other things that Fedora has that need some work, I'll point two of them that need a lot of work at communication level:
- SELinux (being rivaled by Novell's AppArmour)
- Red Hat FOSS drivers (check the output of several communities about
this news, ex: slashdot threat).
The last one points clearly for several types of users, those who don't really need outstanding 3D performance, and those who explore this subject on a more technical point of view and show different advantages.
Threads like the one on Slashdot could be avoided if there was good communication around that topic. Another disruptive fight is going around GNOME and gnome-shell vs gnome-panel.
All of this could be sorted out by marketing. Those who believe that Marketing is a sales force, are completely wrong. Marketing has the most powerful diagnose tools at it's service for issues like this one. See it this way: If you are sick, you search for a doctor for a diagnose and then you get a set of conditions to fulfill in order to improve your situation. An organization should use Marketing not only to support sales, advertising and so on, but to diagnose as well itself and it's product in order to achieve it's goals. Marketing might provide a good set of procedures to improve it.
[...snip...]
Nelson, you make some very good points in your email. So my next question is, how would you personally like to help us improve our communications around SELinux and FOSS drivers? I know there are other places we could improve communications, but since you pointed these two out, we have a good place to start.
How would you propose to solve this problem, and can we count on your assistance to help make that solution a reality?
Hi Paul,
I've submitted another threat for something I wanna do right now, the SWOT Analysis for Fedora. This two topics are something that will be present for sure.
My suggestion for this issues is the following:
- FOSS Drivers >> people with strong background knowledge and open source fanatics do support this initiative. People with lower tech background that only aim to 3D performance do heavy critics about performance and they point a very valid reason from the "end user" point of view, proprietary drivers do not represent costs for them, they are freely available. My suggestion for this was that the communication should be addressed to the community within 2 or 3 layers, something like:
Layer #1 > the first impression, usually known in marketing environment as the "elevator talk". A short attractive no technical speech promoting it's benefits and grabbing their attention. We and to stimulate the reader to look deeper in Layer #2. This first layer is just to call his attention.
Layer #2 > Provide a anti-message. Here we focus the development state and pass on the information of the project goals, the efforts being done by Red Hat (and other contributors if they exist) on this field. Provide the important feedback and above all, we need to fit in some technical details, not overwhelming for the mainstream user and hit hard on the benefits such project drops. End up the message with "Check technical details".
Layer #3 > Dump a massive technical explanation and once more support it by the long run benefits of this technology that is being developed.
Related to this, I've seen people even mocking that one day Red Hat will be doing FOSS Drivers and that hardware manufacturers won't even have to write drivers. Wouldn't this be wonderful?
About SELinux, I've worked with this technology before. Nowadays we need to seek other "vendors" technology that targets to rival SE Linux. SE Linux is a painful thing for non-technical users. We need to try and break this gap. I am convinced that IT Professionals know it's advantages, despite this, we should keep track if something like Novell's App Armour (and other technology that rivals SE Linux) is getting perceived by the users, so that we can do our communication to answer their doubts.
This email doesn't clearly answer your question for something we can do in the short run, and it's not wise from my point of view to make it stand high on the Fedora 13 release as we don't have time to work this out in a safe way. My suggestion is that we start gathering technical information so that we can process it and decide the highlights we want to do based on what the rival products can offer.
My suggestion is that our technical people could help us out on this, in fact it's kinda mandatory they do, I speak for myself and I don't have a strong background on this technology to do it alone. I think this is something that we should look with more concern after Fedora 13 being released.
Most people will remember all the fuss around Red Hat 7 release. For me it's the best release from Red Hat (all times). Many people didnt understood that it wasn't a compiler bug or a bad compiler. The software being compiled itself explored several bugs from the compiler, which rendered it uncompilable. This is the idea I got about it, thats what happened right? (I would suppose so, because from the 100+ patches that Red Hat made to GCC on that release, nearly all of them went into gcc main tree right after). Back then communication failed to explain users (specially non-technical users) what was really happening. SE Linux doesn't fit for a metaphore, but FOSS Drivers are being misunderstood in essence and substance like that famous GCC release on Red Hat 7.
I would assume that Fedora 14 (13 is a weird number and is often co-noted with bad things, norske mythology, Loki who deceived and killed Balder, Christian culture, the betrayal of the 13th apostole, etc etc etc) would be perfect to settle our communication on the FOSS driver (and hopefully we'll have a lot more to show then, than now).
We can use though Fedora 13 to check that segmented message and how it will be taken by the users.
I would ask from this list the following regarding this 2 issues:
SE Linux > technology highlights, benefits for end users (non technical), benefits for IT Professionals, benefits for enthusiasts and old school BOFHS and other segments of the Fedora Community which are relevant.
FOSS > Technology Highlights, value for normal users (non-gaming), value for IT Professionals. This message should also include a promise to 3D demanding people (what would our engineers have to say about this?).
If we can gather objective information regarding this, we can still process it and do a minor communication on Fedora 13 release. But I would consider doing a full scale brainstorm only on F14, so we have more time to conduct one or two studies.
Do we have a survey operating platform ? This could us greatly to collect information regarding our users. I understand the concern about privacy, but we can advertise properly and call for interaction, in fact, we need to be more active with the community.
I hope this makes sense.
Nelson
-- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Do we have a survey operating platform ? This could us greatly to collect information regarding our users. I understand the concern about privacy, but we can advertise properly and call for interaction, in fact, we need to be more active with the community.
Robyn, David, Ryan, Eric, and others have been working on getting up tools for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research - the short version is "we were working on getting limesurvey up, but it's extremely difficult to package, so we're trying out phpESP instead."
Last I heard they were still looking for some help in testing it out to see whether it fits people's survey-making needs - I know there's a test instance up on http://publictest16.fedoraproject.org/phpESP/admin/manage.php but am not sure how one gets the privs needed to play around and test it.
--Mel
On Mon, 2010-02-22 at 15:46 -0500, Mel Chua wrote:
Do we have a survey operating platform ? This could us greatly to collect information regarding our users. I understand the concern about privacy, but we can advertise properly and call for interaction, in fact, we need to be more active with the community.
Robyn, David, Ryan, Eric, and others have been working on getting up tools for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research - the short version is "we were working on getting limesurvey up, but it's extremely difficult to package, so we're trying out phpESP instead."
Last I heard they were still looking for some help in testing it out to see whether it fits people's survey-making needs - I know there's a test instance up on http://publictest16.fedoraproject.org/phpESP/admin/manage.php but am not sure how one gets the privs needed to play around and test it.
--Mel
Mel,
I'm gonna run some local tests on both and see if I can find relevant information. The platform itself shouldn't really matter much, the process of data is probably more important. I also need to toy around a bit with GNU PSPP to check how useful it is compared to what I used in the past (IBM SPSS) to pop some nice graphics to improve visual data analysis.
At the moment I'm more concerned with the SWOT Analysis, but this set of tools you describe will be of great support (sometimes it's easier to analyse things based on value and volume, if we can have such numbers with a 5% error margin, we can improve a lot. There is a statistical formula for this error margin, this will roughly go over 1064 inquiries (10 million universe), the most important is that we deploy communication to take those 1064 people to answer).
I am not sure if I can help on that platform, but if there's something I can help with, let me know (not much of a code hacker) but on the security and DB optimization I can probably help.
From my marketing point of view, the main concern is the extraction of the data to PSPP (http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/) for treatment. (Yes, it's a package that to my knowledge is not present on Fedora or any other distribution).
I've actually submited this package for evaluation on my institute and it was turned down due to agreements with SPSS manufacturer (we have free licences for our students and organization).
If someone can spare a admin credential for auth on your test platform, please let me know, so I can check it, meanwhile I'll run some tests on my local system.
Nelson
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
[snip]
From my marketing point of view, the main concern is the extraction of the data to PSPP (http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/) for treatment. (Yes, it's a package that to my knowledge is not present on Fedora or any other distribution).
PSPP is in Fedora, so just install it using "yum install pspp".
cheers // Imtiaz Rahi
I am not sure if I can help on that platform, but if there's something I can help with, let me know (not much of a code hacker) but on the security and DB optimization I can probably help.
Is packaging something you're interested in? That's probably the biggest bottleneck we've got in terms of deploying tools for Marketing right now.
If someone can spare a admin credential for auth on your test platform, please let me know, so I can check it, meanwhile I'll run some tests on my local system.
Auth credentials to the publictest boxes are handled by the Infrastructure team via FAS - you need membership in the sysadmin-test group. Here's what to do.
1. Join the Infrastructure group - instructions at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingStarted.
2. When you introduce yourself on the Infrastructure mailing list, say you're looking for access to sysadmin-test because you want to experiment with X, Y, and Z for Marketing. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/FIGs#sysadmin-test describes that group.
3. The Infrastructure team folks also hang out on #fedora-admin if you have questions or want to talk with someone in realtime (sometimes faster).
--Mel
Mel,
Thanks for info. I'm going to take a look into that and see if we can have this operational in the shortest time possible after the release of Fedora 13.
Right now just trying to fix the RSS feed to planet, since it backfired on my wordpress blog. Not displaying things as I want. Need to start as well the SWOT on our wiki and take some more background info on several details.
Once everything is on the way (should be within a couple of days), I'll take a look into the platform and contact the people involved so we can get it running and build a nice package.
nelson
On Mon, 2010-02-22 at 18:31 -0500, Mel Chua wrote:
I am not sure if I can help on that platform, but if there's something I can help with, let me know (not much of a code hacker) but on the security and DB optimization I can probably help.
Is packaging something you're interested in? That's probably the biggest bottleneck we've got in terms of deploying tools for Marketing right now.
If someone can spare a admin credential for auth on your test platform, please let me know, so I can check it, meanwhile I'll run some tests on my local system.
Auth credentials to the publictest boxes are handled by the Infrastructure team via FAS - you need membership in the sysadmin-test group. Here's what to do.
- Join the Infrastructure group - instructions at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingStarted.
- When you introduce yourself on the Infrastructure mailing list, say
you're looking for access to sysadmin-test because you want to experiment with X, Y, and Z for Marketing. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/FIGs#sysadmin-test describes that group.
- The Infrastructure team folks also hang out on #fedora-admin if you
have questions or want to talk with someone in realtime (sometimes faster).
--Mel
I would like to ask something from this list to help me understand a bit more of Fedora. I am new to the list, and I'm currently trying to assimilate more information through the Fedora Project wiki before I can contribute. This is important for me to know.
In addition to the resources that Ryan and Kamisamanou and others already pointed to, I'd mention (though you're probably already starting to see) that you are going to get a *lot* of different answers - there's no Secret Marketing Cabal that dictates these Absolute Answers from above.
A lot of it is what emerges in the revealed preferences we have as we (as a community) go about our daily work - what do the things we *do* (not just in Marketing, but in other parts of the Fedora community as well) say about our answers to these Marketing-related questions?
It's not a quick answer to digest (or even find, or understand), but it's a rich one.
--Mel
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org