As part of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups, I've been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation choices in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the user simply selects which environment they want to run in, plus options for that environment.
Based on what's in the kickstart file for the KDE spin, here's what I have for KDE:
KDE contains: kde-runtime kde-workspace kdelibs apper ark bluedevil cagibi cups-pk-helper gwenview kamera kamoso kcalc kcharselect kcm-gtk kcm_touchpad kcolorchooser kde-baseapps kde-plasma-networkmanagement kde-plasma-networkmanagement-openconnect kde-plasma-networkmanagement-openvpn kde-plasma-networkmanagement-pptp kde-plasma-networkmanagement-vpnc kde-printer-applet kde-settings-pulseaudio kdeaccessibility kdegames-minimal kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer kdegraphics-thumbnailers kdenetwork-kdnssd kdenetwork-kget kdeplasma-addons kdm kgpg kipi-plugins kolourpaint konsole kruler krusader ksnapshot ksshaskpass ksysguard ktorrent ktp-accounts-kcm ktp-approver ktp-auth-handler ktp-contact-applet ktp-contact-list ktp-filetransfer-handler ktp-kded-integration-module ktp-presence-applet ktp-send-file ktp-text-ui kwallet kwebkitpart kwrite okular oxygen-gtk phonon-backend-gstreamer plasma-scriptengine-python system-config-date system-config-printer-kde system-config-services xsettings-kde xterm
and has the following 'options' available:
kde-apps kdeartwork-screensavers kdegames digikam kdenetwork-krdc kdenetwork-krfb kdepim konversation twinkle krusader kde-education blinken kalzium kanagram kgeography khangman kiten klettres ktouch kturtle kwordquiz parley step marble kstars kalgebra kbruch kig kmplot rocs cantor kde-media amarok kmix dragon k3b kscd kde-office scribus calligra-karbon calligra-krita calligra calligra-braindump calligra-flow calligra-kexi calligra-plan calligra-sheets calligra-stage calligra-words
I welcome any and all sanity-checking/fixing of this, and ideas for additions/removals. You can open the current F18/F19 comps files and see the data that makes this up - the 'kde-desktop' environment defines what groups go into KDE, and which are shown as options, and the groups referenced there define what packages make them up.
Ideally, once this is firmed up, we can even switch the kickstart in spins-kickstart to refer to these groups, and retire the old ones. This way selecting KDE in anaconda for DVD/network installations would provide the same experience as the Live image where possible.
Thanks, Bill
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:23:46 -0400 Bill Nottingham notting@redhat.com wrote:
As part of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups, I've been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation choices in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the user simply selects which environment they want to run in, plus options for that environment.
Based on what's in the kickstart file for the KDE spin, here's what I have for KDE:
KDE contains: kde-runtime kde-workspace kdelibs apper ark bluedevil cagibi cups-pk-helper gwenview kamera kamoso kcalc kcharselect kcm-gtk kcm_touchpad kcolorchooser kde-baseapps kde-plasma-networkmanagement kde-plasma-networkmanagement-openconnect kde-plasma-networkmanagement-openvpn kde-plasma-networkmanagement-pptp kde-plasma-networkmanagement-vpnc kde-printer-applet kde-settings-pulseaudio kdeaccessibility kdegames-minimal kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer kdegraphics-thumbnailers kdenetwork-kdnssd kdenetwork-kget kdeplasma-addons kdm kgpg kipi-plugins kolourpaint konsole kruler krusader ksnapshot ksshaskpass ksysguard ktorrent ktp-accounts-kcm ktp-approver ktp-auth-handler ktp-contact-applet ktp-contact-list ktp-filetransfer-handler ktp-kded-integration-module ktp-presence-applet ktp-send-file ktp-text-ui kwallet kwebkitpart kwrite okular oxygen-gtk phonon-backend-gstreamer plasma-scriptengine-python system-config-date system-config-printer-kde system-config-services xsettings-kde xterm
and has the following 'options' available:
kde-apps kdeartwork-screensavers kdegames digikam kdenetwork-krdc kdenetwork-krfb kdepim konversation twinkle krusader kde-education blinken kalzium kanagram kgeography khangman kiten klettres ktouch kturtle kwordquiz parley step marble kstars kalgebra kbruch kig kmplot rocs cantor kde-media amarok kmix dragon k3b kscd kde-office scribus calligra-karbon calligra-krita calligra calligra-braindump calligra-flow calligra-kexi calligra-plan calligra-sheets calligra-stage calligra-words
I welcome any and all sanity-checking/fixing of this, and ideas for additions/removals. You can open the current F18/F19 comps files and see the data that makes this up - the 'kde-desktop' environment defines what groups go into KDE, and which are shown as options, and the groups referenced there define what packages make them up.
Ideally, once this is firmed up, we can even switch the kickstart in spins-kickstart to refer to these groups, and retire the old ones. This way selecting KDE in anaconda for DVD/network installations would provide the same experience as the Live image where possible.
Thanks, Bill
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
it would be good to create a kde-minimal group ... and then increase packages around this group
Bill Nottingham wrote:
As part of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups, I've been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation choices in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the user simply selects which environment they want to run in, plus options for that environment.
So my suggestion, based also on today's discussion on IRC (about matching the current KDE branding and release practices, which are moving more and more away from the old software compilation) is to have:
toplevel group: KDE Plasma Desktop contains basically only kde-workspace
options (subgroups): a kde-* version of each desktop app group, e.g. kde-internet-apps etc.
Some of the options would be enabled by default, some not.
Kevin Kofler
Kevin Kofler wrote:
Bill Nottingham wrote:
As part of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups, I've been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation choices in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the user simply selects which environment they want to run in, plus options for that environment.
So my suggestion, based also on today's discussion on IRC (about matching the current KDE branding and release practices, which are moving more and more away from the old software compilation) is to have:
toplevel group: KDE Plasma Desktop contains basically only kde-workspace
options (subgroups): a kde-* version of each desktop app group, e.g. kde-internet-apps etc.
Some of the options would be enabled by default, some not.
That's approximately what I had in mind too, I'll see if I can work up a concrete proposal (and patch) this weekend.
-- rex
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:23:46 -0400 Bill Nottingham notting@redhat.com wrote:
As part of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups, I've been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation choices in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the user simply selects which environment they want to run in, plus options for that environment.
I can offer as a kde-mini package group, based on my experience of building a kde-based spin (given dependency of packages in F17):
# KDE base (or minimal) kdm ## this packages for choice the dependence with less package size sane-backends-libs phonon-backend-gstreamer ## kde-workspace konsole k3b apper bluedevil plasma-scriptengine-python system-config-firewall system-config-firewall-base kde-plasma-networkmanagement kde-partitionmanager kwrite
These packages (with their dependencies) provide the basic and necessary features for the user. This group can be the basis for the @kde-desktop.
Thanks for the list, some of that stuff should indeed be in the base KDE Plasma Desktop group (but not all!):
Fl@sh wrote:
# KDE base (or minimal) kdm
Yes.
## this packages for choice the dependence with less package size sane-backends-libs
No, that's not minimal at all.
What drags this in as a dependency? And what's the larger dependency that gets dragged in otherwise? (I don't see what other dependency sane-backends- libs could replace, sounds like a packaging bug.)
phonon-backend-gstreamer
Should be dragged in by dependencies already, but I guess it helps to list this explicitly for the folks who enable RPM Fusion during installation, who might otherwise end up with phonon-backend-vlc instead, which I don't think should be the default.
## kde-workspace
Yes, of course.
konsole
Maybe, not sure. Though currently kde-workspace drags it in anyway so that "right-click, Konsole" always works.
k3b
No. That really needs to be optional.
apper bluedevil
Yes, those are needed for workspace-system integration.
plasma-scriptengine-python
No. Purely optional and should be automatically installed through Plasma PackageKit integration when needed (if not, file a bug).
system-config-firewall system-config-firewall-base
No. Those are admin tools, not KDE-related at all.
kde-plasma-networkmanagement
Yes, system integration, same as for Apper and BlueDevil.
kde-partitionmanager
No, should be in a kde-admin-tools subgroup/option.
kwrite
Maybe. Like Konsole, this one can be argued to be part of the workspace.
Kevin Kofler
On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:36:46 +0200 Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at wrote:
Thanks for the list, some of that stuff should indeed be in the base KDE Plasma Desktop group (but not all!): ...
Sorry, sane-backends-libs phonon-backend-gstreamer packages not for pure Fedora (I`m do it for remix with rpmfusion repo, which added some dependencies).
About konsole, kwrite, plasma-scriptengine-python packages -- Yes, reinsure myself.
About system-config-firewall, system-config-firewall-base, k3b, kde-partitionmanager packages -- Sorry, maybe I confused the idea of installing the system on groups with the idea of installing the necessary (usually) a minimum packages.
Nevertheless, it would be good if there exists a @kde-base (or -minimal, or -<same_name>) Group, because it gives more flexibility when installing and using KDE in Fedora.
Fl@sh wrote:
Sorry, sane-backends-libs phonon-backend-gstreamer packages not for pure Fedora (I`m do it for remix with rpmfusion repo, which added some dependencies).
I still don't see how sane-backends-libs would be useful to list there even with RPM Fusion enabled.
About konsole, kwrite, plasma-scriptengine-python packages -- Yes, reinsure myself.
And again, -1 to plasma-scriptengine-python, it has absolutely no business being in the minimal KDE workspace install set.
I could accept putting it in an optional "KDE Plasma Workspace Addons" subgroup along with kdeplasma-addons, but IMHO a script engine should not be listed in comps at all. It should be a dependency of whatever package requires it. If you install a plasmoid through "Add new widget…" (GHNS), starting from Fedora 17, you now get automatically prompted to install the script engine if it isn't installed yet. See: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Plasma_PackageKit_Integration So there is no need whatsoever to install the script engine by default.
About system-config-firewall, system-config-firewall-base, k3b, kde-partitionmanager packages -- Sorry, maybe I confused the idea of installing the system on groups with the idea of installing the necessary (usually) a minimum packages.
So I disagree about k3b and kde-partitionmanager being part of the necessary minimum. K3b is useless on a machine with no CD/DVD burner (e.g. a netbook or a tablet). kde-partitionmanager is entirely useless for most users. That kind of packages belongs into "options" (subgroups). It may or may not make sense to enable those options by default.
As for system-config-firewall, that's not a KDE package at all and so IMHO entirely off topic here.
Nevertheless, it would be good if there exists a @kde-base (or -minimal, or -<same_name>) Group, because it gives more flexibility when installing and using KDE in Fedora.
See the original post in this thread for how Anaconda will present groups in Fedora 18!
Kevin Kofler
On 08/18/2012 10:29 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
About system-config-firewall, system-config-firewall-base, k3b, kde-partitionmanager packages -- Sorry, maybe I confused the idea of installing the system on groups with the idea of installing the necessary (usually) a minimum packages.
So I disagree about k3b and kde-partitionmanager being part of the necessary minimum. K3b is useless on a machine with no CD/DVD burner (e.g. a netbook or a tablet). kde-partitionmanager is entirely useless for most users. That kind of packages belongs into "options" (subgroups). It may or may not make sense to enable those options by default.
I have to disagree on K3B. Writing a CD/DVD is a basic function and should be supported out of the box. It was a welcome addition when users could burn CDs on Windows without requiring any additional software. We're not aiming to include only those packages that are applicable on all possible hardware platforms, are we? In that case, things like bluetooth support should be left out since most desktops don't have them. I mean, why the unfair advantage for netbooks?
regards,
Syam
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 19:11:06 +0530 Sonic get.sonic@gmail.com wrote:
On 08/18/2012 10:29 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
About system-config-firewall, system-config-firewall-base, k3b, kde-partitionmanager packages -- Sorry, maybe I confused the idea of installing the system on groups with the idea of installing the necessary (usually) a minimum packages.
So I disagree about k3b and kde-partitionmanager being part of the necessary minimum. K3b is useless on a machine with no CD/DVD burner (e.g. a netbook or a tablet). kde-partitionmanager is entirely useless for most users. That kind of packages belongs into "options" (subgroups). It may or may not make sense to enable those options by default.
I have to disagree on K3B. Writing a CD/DVD is a basic function and should be supported out of the box. It was a welcome addition when users could burn CDs on Windows without requiring any additional software. We're not aiming to include only those packages that are applicable on all possible hardware platforms, are we? In that case, things like bluetooth support should be left out since most desktops don't have them. I mean, why the unfair advantage for netbooks?
regards,
Syam
Maybe it`s need to create specific group -- @kde-disk-utilities with CD/DVD burn, kde-partitionmanager and other specific packages?
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Bill Nottingham -
Fl＠sh -
Kevin Kofler -
Rex Dieter -
Sonic