On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
> Sure. Here is some kaffeine crash-on-exit. I believe I have all the
[crash in libselinux.so.1]
> Here is a k3b crash-on-exit:
Are these the only KDE 3 apps crashing? We have reports about this indeed,
we thought it was caused by something linked in by
xine-lib-extras-freeworld (maybe ffmpeg), not by kdelibs3, but kdelibs3
might be a common point we haven't thought of yet. Rex?
Yes. Only KDE3 applications crash on exit. Many of them crash.
Exceptions that I found are kile, konversation.
> What else do I need other than what debuginfo-install k3b
The missing debuginfo package is probably the one for libselinux, but I
don't think we need it, the bug is not there anyway, it's a memory
corruption somewhere which makes libselinux fail its cleanups. The latest
news I have is that something tries calling close(-1) according to
Valgrind, but we haven't found the offender yet (Valgrind just warns about
the invalid parameter to close() but produces no backtrace for that).
> Unmaintained doesn't necessarily mean bad. If something is fully
> functional then it can go unmaintained for years. gwenview is not
> light enough.
KDE is about being good, not about being light. ;-)
Maybe KDE is not, but kuickshow was about being light. There's nothing
comparable to kuickshow now.
> Meanwhile, I have nothing against GTK+ 1.
It has been obsolete for 7 years, it has got no updates whatsoever from
upstream, not even bugfixes, for 8 years (they stopped updating it even
before GTK+ 2 was officially released) and who knows how many of the
security issues found and fixed in GTK+ 2 also apply to it and nobody
noticed (other than blackhats).
How long should such a compat lib be kept on life support? I think we've
reached the point where the apps which are still using it are either dead
themselves (and thus should be EOLed along with the ancient compat lib) or
have upstreams which just don't care about the problem (in which case
telling them they'll be dropped from Fedora if they don't port to to
current libs might get them moving - if not, their upstream isn't any more
useful than a dead one and the package should be EOLed as unmaintainable).
Sorry, I don't get this "unmaintained <-> bad" logic. Sure, there is
finite probability that something unmaintained will turn bad at some
point. But from our experience, I sadly admit that something
well-maintained may also turn bad.
Whenever there's demand, there should be supply.
> The best audio application still uses GTK+, and that, I think, is
> sufficient proof that GTK+ is better than GTK2+.
Don't tell me you mean XMMS with "the best audio application"...
I did not need to name it. You did not need to name it either. Best is best.
I do admit that amarok had its prime time at some point. But as every
other audio application, it lost (or in upstream language: changed)
The best one is still there. It never fails me.
There are plenty of alternatives which don't rely on obsolete
including Audacious which is based on XMMS code and keeps its user
> I also started thinking that all we need to swallow is that Qt3 is
> better than Qt4.
And even if it was, that wouldn't change the fact that it's deprecated and
no longer maintained by upstream and packages using it need to be migrated
off it ASAP.
The same thing I said about GTK+ 1 also applies to Qt 3: I don't think it
makes sense to keep it around forever. For a few years, to give apps time
to port, sure, definitely. But forever, no.
I do respect your thoughts but I do not agree with them. If version X
of a library (or application) is better then version X+1, then X shall
not be abandoned.
If its upstream doesn't care about the version X anymore, it is my
responsibility (as a power user and a packager) to tell them that they
are doing wrong. I do think that reverting F-11 to KDE3 would be a
striking lesson to upstream.
But who am I anyways...
> If by "font acceleration" you mean
"Anti-aliasing", turning it off
> doesn't do any good. kfontview still shows a blank window. If by "font
> acceleration" you mean something else, can you be a little more
nvidia-settings -a GlyphCache=0
Didn't help. I still get blank window with kfontview. I also removed
all kfontview related bits from ~/.kde, it didn't help.
Completely untested, of course, as I don't have NVidia sh*t.
> Yes, nvidia sucks by not open sourcing their driver. But I do not have
> another choice.
Yes, you have the choice to buy supported hardware. NVidia sh*t is NOT
I really have no other choice right now. I do not think the supported
hardware vendors will donate me a 200$ graphics card.