[irc-support-sig] #100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
by fedora-badges
#100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
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Reporter: bookwar | Owner:
Type: feedback | Status: new
Priority: minor | Milestone: Fedora 16
Version: | Severity: Neutral
Keywords: | Blocked By:
Blocking: |
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This feedback is:
{{{
[ ] Positive
[ ] Negative
[X] Neutral
}}}
'''My IRC nick is:''' bookwar
'''Please briefly describe the interaction that caused you to file this
ticket:'''
The situation when people are kicked or banned from the support channel,
while they ask fedora-related questions in a reasonable and polite way
seems to be wrong for me.
Once I saw how the person was sent out because he wasn't a Fedora user.
He asked if there exists one specific package in Fedora repos. And he said
he could not use yum to find it. Instead of giving him link for koji or
Fedora package database or direct answer, DiscordianUK said "we support
only Fedora users here".
Today it was fenrus02, who kicked user for asking rpm and gpg key
question because the question was motivated by Fedora Core 3.
Sure, I have read the channel FAQ that this is "Fedora End-user Support
Channel" and also I am aware of what EOL means and I agree that it is
important to persuade people to switch to supported versions. But I think
the primary goal of this channel is - to provide help and to educate each
other about Fedora-way of doing things. And, thus, any technical question
asked properly should be welcomed despite of its origin.
Of course it is a completely different situation, when user asks version-
specific question. When the issue can not be modelled in the current
Fedora release, the EOL rule is indeed justified. And I can only suggest
to use "we cannot support all the old versions here" instead of "get out,
we don't support you" kind of arguments.
'''Please describe what action or positive change could be adopted based
on this feedback:'''
I don't expect any specific actions. I think you do great job in general.
But, please, when you decide what's appropriate and what's not, try to
think about question itself, not who asked it and why he did it.
And also, when you think that something _is_ inappropriate, don't throw
the user away as a piece of garbage. It is the question itself which is
inappropriate, not the person who asked it. The person could come later
and ask something better next time.
And the main idea of my ticket is: People, who don't use current Fedora at
this very moment, also have rights to ask general technical Fedora-related
questions at the Fedora Support IRC channel.
'''Any additional notes or logs:'''
These are just two examples I have in mind right now, but I don't want to
go into details here. This is the general idea I am speaking about.
{{{
(11:54:25 PM) Edulix: can somebody please tell which fedora package
provides the binary xsltproc?
(11:55:25 PM) bookwar1: libxslt
(11:55:32 PM) Edulix: bookwar1: thanks
(12:00:35 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: the yum man page talks about "provides"
(12:01:12 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: cool
(12:01:15 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: So "yum provides */xsltproc" would get you
the desired info
(12:01:35 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: You can also use rpm to look this up
(12:01:46 AM) DiscordianUK: or repoquery
(12:02:19 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: You would QUERY the database for the FILE
in question, see the man page for more info
(12:02:29 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: but I don't have fedora installed so
(12:02:35 AM) Edulix: I need something online :P
(12:02:37 AM) EvilBob: Sure
(12:03:10 AM) EvilBob: No time like NOW to get it installed
(12:03:15 AM) randomuser: Edulix, other package managers probably have
this feature too
(12:04:21 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: I'm creating a package for
fedora,opensuse,mandriva,debian,ubuntu,windows,linux,mac...
(12:05:21 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: and no I'm not installing all those, I'll
let others do it, I'm using opensuse build service to create the package
for all the linuxes and then ask people to test it
(12:05:40 AM) DiscordianUK: yikes
(12:06:37 AM) hicham: Edulix: there are online websites
(12:06:42 AM) hicham: that provides these tools
(12:06:46 AM) Edulix: hicham: please tell me =)
(12:06:52 AM) EvilBob: You can't be bothered to test your own bits...
(12:06:55 AM) EvilBob: WOW
(12:07:10 AM) DiscordianUK: I'm tiring of this
(12:07:58 AM) Edulix: sorry people I didn't ask you why are you helping
me, I just asked a question related to fedora, and if you want you can
help, I think I'm not trolling or anything ?¿
(12:08:20 AM) DiscordianUK: you aren't running fedora
(12:08:43 AM) DiscordianUK: This is f14/f15 support
(12:08:47 AM) bookwar1: DiscordianUK: his question was ok, don't fight
(12:08:56 AM) EvilBob: well this is a Fedora enduser support channel
(12:08:58 AM) DiscordianUK: nor do you intend to
(12:09:07 AM) DiscordianUK: precisely
(12:09:13 AM) Fieldy: he got his question answered anyway, i'm sure we can
relax
(12:09:20 AM) Edulix: ok sorry. what fedora channel should I use?
(12:09:26 AM) Edulix: Fieldy: sure =)
(12:09:33 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: #fedora-devel
(12:09:39 AM) hicham: Edulix: http://rpm.pbone.net/ provides that feature
(12:09:43 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: thanks
(12:09:54 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: Let them help you with your mutant
packaging
(12:10:11 AM) Edulix: hehe yeah nice term
(12:10:11 AM) EvilBob: It's really the best place for that kind of help
(12:10:48 AM) EvilBob: Foreign just did not seem right
(12:11:24 AM) EvilBob: Good Luck to you
(12:11:45 AM) Edulix: thanks you people for the help
(12:12:10 AM) Edulix: my next devel question will be asked there for sure
=)
(12:13:50 AM) bookwar1: it is kind of strange how you create such a big
problem from 1-second-questions here, he didn't make any troubles and was
polite enough, why not just answer and forget about it ?
(12:14:36 AM) DiscordianUK: Do you not get that this is an end-user
channel?
(12:14:39 AM) Fieldy: and then, ironically, you extend the issue
(12:14:43 AM) Fieldy: you = bookwar1
(12:14:51 AM) Fieldy: we had moved on
(12:15:03 AM) bookwar1: Fieldy: yes, sorry for that
(12:15:49 AM) DiscordianUK: You don't run f14/f15 or want to you ain't
coming in
(12:16:51 AM) bookwar1: DiscordianUK: this is stupid, and i will try to
participate in the next irc-support-meeting to discuss this
}}}
{{{
(01:54:20 AM) Lantizia: hey how can I import this key directly into rpm in
one line??
http://keys.gnupg.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x4F2A6FD2
(01:54:36 AM) Lantizia: I've tried rpm --import
"http://keys.gnupg.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x4F2A6FD2" but
I get "import read failed"
(01:55:36 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * man rpm
(01:55:58 AM) mutk: Lantizia, That URL ends up sending a html file
(01:56:17 AM) Lantizia: mutk, exactly - i dunno how to request it without
html
(01:56:47 AM) mutk: LatThat would be up to the people that provide it I
guess
(01:57:19 AM) dvanstone: mutk- yes
(01:57:21 AM) Lantizia: mutk, do you know of any other popular keyserver
that I can use with rpm -import
(01:58:02 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * have you tried mit
(01:58:13 AM) mutk: Heh keys.gnupg.net port 80 redirects to
http://mud.stack.nl
(01:58:26 AM) mutk: There goes my afternoon productivity..
(01:59:36 AM) Lantizia: dvanstone, yeah you get html there too
(01:59:55 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * man rpm
(02:00:14 AM) mutk: It might be easy enough to script something to grab
just the key text
(02:00:29 AM) Lantizia: no man on here (yet) - trying to set up yum to get
back some basic utils
(02:01:00 AM) dvanstone: hmm
(02:01:28 AM) Lantizia: why is there something in man rpm that is useful?
or your just giving your default answer? :D
(02:02:39 AM) dvanstone: hmm
(02:03:10 AM) hays|afk is now known as hays
(02:03:55 AM) mutk: Lantizia, https://fedoraproject.org/keys that
shows the op=GET arg in the url..
http://keys.gnupg.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x34E166FA&op=get
(02:04:14 AM) Lantizia: mutk, as does the link I already provided in
channel
(02:04:44 AM) mutk: Ah yes in different order .. Ok
(02:04:57 AM) fenrus02: why would you use the keyserver instead of the iso
you downloaded?
(02:05:10 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, you mean for FC3? :P hehe
(02:05:17 AM) Lantizia: i wonder which FC3 rpm had the key in it
(02:06:42 AM) fenrus02: @fc3eol
(02:06:43 AM) fedbot: Fedora Core 3 is END OF LIFE and no longer
supported. See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora-EOL-Support. It went
EOL 6 years, 3 weeks, 3 days, 11 hours, 6 minutes, and 43 seconds ago
(02:07:14 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, you realise your not the first to say
this - and you also realise I've known that little nugget of information
for years now
(02:07:16 AM) Lantizia: give up :P
(02:07:36 AM) ffranz-afk is now known as ffranz
(02:08:13 AM) fenrus02: Lantizia, then you also realize you are HORRIBLY
off topic here. Great. Try #fedora-eol if it still exists.
(02:08:53 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, how? i'm just talking about the rpm
utility and it importing gpg keys!
(02:09:07 AM) fenrus02: Lantizia, on a dead distro that no longer applies
here.
(02:09:21 AM) Lantizia: unless fedora stopped using rpm?! oh wait you've
not
(02:09:26 AM) fenrus02: not all the rpm versions are the same
(02:09:58 AM) fenrus02: Lantizia, do you really want to troll and/or be a
twit? i suggest you stop now.
(02:10:49 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, your the troller here - attempting to
stop helping someone just because they mentioned the hilarity of it being
fc3... the issue is if/how rpm can import from a keyserver without need of
the file being downloaded first
(02:11:46 AM) fenrus02: @kick Lantizia
(02:11:47 AM) Lantizia left the room (Kicked by fedbot (fenrus02)).
(02:11:52 AM) Lantizia
[~lantizia(a)cpc22-stok16-2-0-cust96.1-4.cable.virginmedia.com] entered the
room.
(02:11:54 AM) Lantizia: very mature
(02:12:02 AM) fenrus02: that was your last warning.
(02:12:04 AM) mutk: Lantizia, Use gpg tool to import the keys using
keys.gnupg.net and then export the key to a file and import with rpm..
The keys.gnupg.net site seems intended for gpg tool and nothing else.
(02:12:18 AM) Lantizia: mutk, thought of that too - but no gpg utility
only gpg-error
(02:12:28 AM) mutk: what ?
(02:12:35 AM) Lantizia: see i'm trying to set up yum (need the gpg key for
it) to get these basic utils back
(02:13:00 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * uname -r
(02:13:12 AM) Lantizia: dvanstone, why?
(02:13:48 AM) dvanstone: we only provide support for 15 16 here
(02:15:12 AM) dvanstone: hmm
(02:15:33 AM) Lantizia: not wanting to suffer the "wrath" of fenrus02
again... but has no one stopped to think that some people might want to
run fc3 or keep running it for either whimsical reasons or because it's an
old server they've virtualised for reference later on if they need it...
it's not like I chose fc3! I'm a debian user! and it's not like me asking
for help in here is causing the ABSOLUTE FLOOD of fedora 15 and 16 users a
probl
(02:15:33 AM) Lantizia: em - of which none are talking at present or
needing help
(02:15:44 AM) Lantizia: this isn't #ubuntu after all
(02:16:06 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * it has been suggested -eol
(02:16:10 AM) mutk: Lantizia, Use wget to save the file, edit it to clean
it up. Import with rpm --import
(02:16:24 AM) Lantizia: mutk, yeah was hoping for something more elegant
than that
(02:16:33 AM) Lantizia: i guess I could use sed on it
(02:16:43 AM) mutk: Like a scipt, as I suggested early. Would be easy to
do.
(02:16:44 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * plaese
(02:16:46 AM) ryeth: lol i'm downloading fedora now because i will have it
in an upcoming class, thought i'd join the room to see what people are
talking about
(02:16:49 AM) mutk: script*
(02:16:56 AM) ryeth: don't need help yet, but sure i probably will be soon
(02:17:10 AM) Lantizia: ryeth, then I'll shut up
}}}
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/100>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on irc.freenode.net
12 years, 2 months
version 4 voting proposal
by Kevin Fenzi
a) The sig controls/manages the following channels:
#fedora
#fedora-social
#fedora-unregistered
#fedora-ops
b) Voting members are everyone who's an op in any of the managed
channels.
c) New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a
ticket and asking to join. Voting members have 7 days to vote,
majority vote determines outcome.
d) Existing voting members can be removed in roughly the same
way as the process in c). Inactive members can be removed if their
is a majority vote to do so here.
e) In other cases (aside from promoting/removing members),
broad consensus should be attempted first and if no clear
consensus can be reached a vote can be held on the issue or change.
f) when and if other channels wish to join the sig, rules for
that can be added.
g) The #fedora-ops channel is for coordinating between
operators of the other 3 channels. Operators in those 3 channels
are welcome to join and idle in #fedora-ops. Other folks can be
allowed by nomination from an op and a second from any other
operator. Those not in the above 2 groups are welcome to join and
discuss an issue or concern with the other 3 channels, but will be
asked to then depart after their issue or concern is noted.
12 years, 2 months
voting proposal mark 3
by Kevin Fenzi
a) The sig controls/manages the following channels:
#fedora
#fedora-social
#fedora-unregistered
#fedora-ops
b) Voting members are everyone who's an op in any of the managed
channels.
c) New operators/voting members are nominated by any existing member,
who (after confirming the nominee is agreeable) files a ticket. Voting
members have 7 days to vote, majority vote determines outcome.
d) Existing voting members can be removed in roughly the same way as
the process in c). Inactive members can be removed if their is a
majority vote to do so here.
e) In other cases (aside from promoting/removing members),
broad consensus should be attempted first and if no clear consensus can
be reached a vote can be held on the issue or change.
f) when and if other channels wish to join the sig, rules for that can
be added.
g) The #fedora-ops channel is for coordinating between operators of the
other 3 channels. Operators in those 3 channels are welcome to join and
idle in #fedora-ops. Other folks can be allowed by nomination from an
op and a second from any other operator. Those not in the above 2
groups are welcome to join and discuss an issue or concern with the
other 3 channels, but will be asked to then depart after their issue or
concern is noted.
kevin
12 years, 2 months
[irc-support-sig] #97: @ affix
by fedora-badges
#97: @ affix
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Reporter: h4ckm3 | Owner:
Type: feedback | Status: new
Priority: major | Milestone: Fedora 16
Version: | Severity: Positive
Keywords: | Blocked By:
Blocking: |
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Awesome support, complete solution in < 10 seconds +1, kudos, "like"
= phenomenon =
= reason =
= recommendation =
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/97>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on irc.freenode.net
12 years, 2 months
[irc-support-sig] #99: Please put the template back the way it was.
by fedora-badges
#99: Please put the template back the way it was.
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Reporter: dp67 | Owner:
Type: feedback | Status: new
Priority: major | Milestone: Fedora 14
Version: | Severity: Neutral
Keywords: | Blocked By:
Blocking: |
---------------------+------------------------
Please put the template back the way it was with prompts users involved,
etc. This phenomenon stuff is kinda confusing for people to relate to. The
old blank ticket template was much better at getting the full details of
the user experience.
de Randy, N3LRX
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/99>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on irc.freenode.net
12 years, 2 months
[irc-support-sig] #96: User Zungo The Vampire
by fedora-badges
#96: User Zungo The Vampire
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Reporter: dp67 | Owner:
Type: feedback | Status: new
Priority: major | Milestone: Fedora 14
Version: | Severity: Neutral
Keywords: | Blocked By:
Blocking: |
---------------------+------------------------
= phenomenon =
User Zungo refuses to read man pages or links given to him. He enters the
channel and demands to be spoon fed. He shouts when he doesn't get
attention and makes a general nuisance of himself.
= reason =
= recommendation =
The user should be banned or quieted long term until he learns to do a
little research for himself or learns some patience before persistently
wearing out his welcome in #fedora.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/96>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on irc.freenode.net
12 years, 2 months