16:04:39 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Role
16:04:41 < mmcgrath> Who's here?
16:04:43 * ricky
16:04:43 -!- jeremy [i=katzj@nat/redhat/x-4bc27ba525a17715] has quit Remote closed the
16:04:43 -!- warren [i=warren@nat/redhat/x-2dc6a46ecf6fecaa] has quit Remote closed the
16:04:48 < paulobanon_> me
16:05:00 < mmcgrath> and again jeremy and warren. Gone at the same time!
16:05:04 * lmacken
16:05:06 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: ?
16:05:08 * skvidal is on asterisk
16:05:10 < skvidal> and here
16:05:20 < lmacken> hah! why does that happen every week ?
16:05:36 < mmcgrath> lmacken: I have no idea, but its like clockwork :)
16:05:37 -!- jeremy [i=katzj@nat/redhat/x-48f778bf0db0139e] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:05:39 < lmacken> seriously
16:05:42 < ricky> Yay :)
16:05:47 < mmcgrath> and jeremy's back :)
16:06:08 < mmcgrath> Ok, I think we have enough to get started, lets take a look at
16:06:15 * jeremy waves
16:06:32 < mmcgrath> jeremy: why is it that you and warren both log off every time
16:06:46 * mmcgrath not complaining, just amused by it.
16:07:12 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Tickets
16:07:13 < mmcgrath>
16:07:29 < jeremy> not sure what's going on tbh
16:07:33 -!- warren [i=warren@nat/redhat/x-7b788734ded94462] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:07:36 < ricky> Woo.
16:07:44 < mmcgrath> Not much to talk about on the ticket side it looks like.
16:07:54 * ricky thought that the meeting keyword was removed from the wiki ticket.
16:08:00 < mmcgrath> VCS is there but jcollie isn't around right now (#14)
16:08:06 < mmcgrath> ricky: I thought we did to
16:08:35 < ricky> OK, it's gone now.
16:08:46 < paulobanon_> ricky: i think it was removed from the wiki things and
passed to FAS
16:08:54 < paulobanon_> (that was the plan anyway)
16:09:02 < mmcgrath> either way we'll skip it for now.
16:09:31 < mmcgrath> One thing I don't really want to talk about but wanted to
mention is ticket #137
16:09:59 < mmcgrath> As a group (Infrastructure) I think going forward and in order
to ensure our
continued growth we'll have to be more sponsorship aware.
16:10:20 -!- k0k [n=k0k@fedora/k0k] has quit "Abandonando"
16:10:37 < paulobanon_> mmcgrath: have u already started to look for other intl
16:10:39 < mmcgrath> This means 1) keep your ears to the ground about opportunities
Infrastructure (and Fedora in general) and 2) we'll have to make
sure to keep the
relationships with our current sponsors good.
16:10:58 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: yeah, some people have responded with some leads
and I've contacted
some other people.
16:11:30 < dgilmore> opps me is here now
16:11:48 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: sorry im late
16:11:51 < mmcgrath> To be blunt, I have very little experience in requesting this
sort of things but
I'm working on it and taking notes and will hopefully get good at
16:11:53 < paulobanon_> mmcgrath: after the meeting save me 5mins
16:11:56 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: no worries, we're just getting started.
16:12:00 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: sure thing
16:12:30 < mmcgrath> having said that, we're just getting started into activly
looking for hosting
sponsors so we can mold it any way we want.
16:13:00 < mmcgrath> Anyone have any questions regarding what I'm doing and
whats going on there? I
know I haven't really been cc'ing the list on emails I've
sent out. That doesn't
seem approperate I think.
16:13:07 < mmcgrath> And I don't want to scare off anyone :)
16:13:20 < paulobanon_> scare us then :)
16:13:21 < skvidal> yay for more options and decentralizing our infrastructure, imo
16:13:55 < mmcgrath> FYI all thats the general idea. Spreading the load a bit,
bringing content faster
(especially internationally) and lowering the cost from RH.
16:14:10 * mmcgrath notes RH hasn't asked for this, I'm just doing it because it
16:14:11 < skvidal> it also increases the likelihood that we stay up
16:14:22 < mmcgrath> yep. and its always good to have options.
16:14:25 < skvidal> if we end up in a problem at one colo
16:14:49 < paulobanon_> skvidal: true
16:15:42 < skvidal> a fiber cut doesn't necessarily nuke us
16:15:47 < skvidal> which is, imo, good :)
16:15:49 < mmcgrath> The other thing is that it looks like a lot of hosting
solutions out there already
16:15:58 < mmcgrath> Ok, if there's no questions there I'll move on.
16:16:11 < glezos> mmcgrath, what's the Boards opinion on this?
16:16:18 < ricky> As long as they upgrade every ~13 months :)
16:16:35 < mmcgrath> glezos: I don't think they've formed an official
16:16:48 -!- G [n=nigel@wikipedia/NigelJ] has quit Connection timed out
16:16:50 < mmcgrath> skvidal and dgilmore are on the board, what do you two think?
16:17:14 < skvidal> yay for more options and decentralizing our infrastructure
16:17:33 < mmcgrath> heh
16:17:50 < skvidal> seriously
16:17:57 < skvidal> I think the general idea is this
16:18:02 * dgilmore is all for de centralising our infrastructure some
16:18:16 < skvidal> 1. fedora-infrastructure is really helping increase the
interaction of community
memebers in fedora admin
16:18:33 < skvidal> 2. the path we're taking is for sustainability and
maintability - yay to both of
16:19:03 < skvidal> 3. in general this is a good direction to go
16:19:13 * paulobanon_ yays to skvidal && dgilmore opinions
16:19:15 < glezos> I believe so too.
16:19:18 < skvidal> that's really it
16:19:25 < glezos> yay for it
16:19:31 * jima stumbles in
16:19:42 < mmcgrath> glezos: thats the sense I get from most people with the
hesitation of not really
knowing whats out there and the general adverse feelings towards
16:19:50 < mmcgrath> so we go forward, but with caution :)
16:20:03 < skvidal> though
16:20:05 < skvidal> so far
16:20:12 < glezos> mmcgrath, +1 for caution on 'adviertising'
16:20:15 < skvidal> no one is pissy about the dell stamp at the bottom of the
16:20:28 < skvidal> and I doubt if we had a rackspace or dreamhost or other thing
16:20:32 < skvidal> we'd gain a lot of ire
16:20:39 < ricky> After the reaction to smolt+Fedora branding, I see what mmcgrath
16:20:40 < skvidal> however, there are lines
16:20:45 < mmcgrath> I agree, especially since places like rackspace offer fedora
16:21:18 < glezos> more choices are always better than one :)
16:21:41 < paulobanon_> we can always sell the idea of global load-balancing :)
16:21:46 < mmcgrath> You guys will hopefully be hearing a lot from me on this front
over the next
several weeks. I'll be contacting probably every lead that comes
my way but won't
be ccing everyone about it. I'm not trying to be secret or
anything, its just a
matter of being practical. Feel free to ask questions.
16:22:02 < mmcgrath> also suggest any hosting provider you might like or know of.
16:22:18 < mmcgrath> and if your company isn't a hosting provider but might be
able to spare space and
bandwidth in a rack in some colo, let me know.
16:22:30 < skvidal> mmcgrath: how about a report on the responses you've gotten
every week or so?
16:22:40 < skvidal> mmcgrath: just so people know what's going on and also know
who you've contacted or
16:22:51 < mmcgrath> That sounds very reasonable.
16:22:57 < paulobanon_> +1
16:23:21 < lmacken> +1
16:23:27 < mmcgrath> My goal is to have at least one other proxy server to use,
thats not hosted in PHX
before the F8 launch.
16:23:40 < mmcgrath> but certainly by F9 a fuller solution will hopefully be in
16:23:57 -!- G [n=nigel@wikipedia/NigelJ] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:24:09 < dgilmore> skvidal: indeed your right
16:24:14 < mmcgrath> Ok, so we'll move on for now if there aren't any other
questions on that front?
16:24:32 < skvidal> dgilmore: in general I think that's true - about what in
16:24:34 < mmcgrath> Anyone have any new sponsors?
16:24:43 < mmcgrath> I've added jima to the noc group.
16:24:59 < mmcgrath> jima: welcome
16:25:13 < paulobanon_> mmcgrath: not that many new requests :)
16:25:27 < mmcgrath> true
16:25:33 < dgilmore> skvidal: about de centralising
16:25:42 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: ?
16:25:44 < jima> yeah, i'm sure people are flocking to infrastructure
16:25:58 < mmcgrath> jima: we're a different breed of people :)
16:26:03 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i was reading up got called away for a sec
16:26:05 < jima> mmcgrath: that we are
16:26:14 -!- bpepple|lt [n=bpepple|(a)rrcs-70-61-160-147.central.biz.rr.com] has joined
16:26:14 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: ahh
16:26:15 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: but please keep us in the loop
16:26:20 < mmcgrath> will do
16:26:32 < dgilmore> jima: about time :D
16:27:08 < mmcgrath> Well, thats really all that is on the schedule. No new
16:27:13 -!- Renault [n=couretca(a)AToulon-151-1-131-130.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit
16:27:20 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Open
16:27:26 < mmcgrath> Anyone have anything they'd like to discuss?
16:27:29 < paulobanon_> Noc
16:27:36 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: have at it.
16:27:52 < paulobanon_> there has been a raise of alerts with the builders
16:28:01 < paulobanon_> regarding offline status
16:28:15 < paulobanon_> anything for us to worry about in general ?
16:28:20 < mmcgrath> ahh, good question
16:28:38 * jima kicks ekiga
16:28:47 * paulobanon_ wouldnt sleep if he had his blackberry on the pager app :)
16:29:08 < dgilmore> paulobanon_: generally its nothing to worry too much about
16:29:10 < mmcgrath> So the builders have been having issues
16:29:12 < mmcgrath> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=260401
16:29:23 < dgilmore> right now builers are under a much heavier than normal load
16:29:29 < mmcgrath> We've actually hit a xen bug of some kind, I have someone
internally (one of the
virt guys) looking into it.
16:29:30 < paulobanon_> dgilmore: gotcha
16:29:32 < dgilmore> but we have that damn xen bug
16:30:06 < paulobanon_> k, makes sense
16:30:10 < mmcgrath> I would actually like to talk about the build system in
16:30:29 -!- Morph [i=gareth(a)mulder.wiked.org] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:30:32 < mmcgrath> In general I've been a little unhappy with the buildsystem
over the last couple of
months and its because of a lot of issues.
16:30:42 < mmcgrath> 1) capacity. We actually do have builders, but have been
unable to find a place to
16:31:07 < mmcgrath> This is mostly a failure of mine I guess since its my job to
find places for this
stuff but it's been difficult.
16:31:20 < paulobanon_> places == hardware?
16:31:47 < mmcgrath> yeah, we just haven't found a place to put the stuff and as
a result its been
sitting on the floor somewhere unpowered.
16:32:00 < paulobanon_> :/
16:32:12 < mmcgrath> I'm hopeful this will be corrected within the next couple
of months but at the same
time when I ask GIT about it I get unclear, or different answers (if
16:32:31 < paulobanon_> whats GIT ?
16:32:46 < skvidal> Global Information Tech
16:32:49 < mmcgrath> 2) The missing dep issue on fedora-maintainers was annoying.
It was one of those
things that makes us look bad though it wasn't really our fault.
16:32:53 < skvidal> red hat's IS service
16:32:54 < paulobanon_> skvidal: thanks
16:32:56 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: they're Red Hat's version of us :)
16:33:16 < skvidal> mmcgrath: they're not as fun as we are, though. :)
16:33:27 < paulobanon_> skvidal: ++1
16:33:35 < skvidal> heh
16:33:35 < paulobanon_> :)
16:33:37 < skvidal> I'm just kidding
16:33:44 < skvidal> I'm sure they're a blast
16:33:52 < mmcgrath> :)
16:33:56 < paulobanon_> heh
16:33:59 < mmcgrath> and 3) Successful failed builds.
16:34:04 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: do you have an update on that?
16:34:27 < mmcgrath> I don't know if it isn't happening as much now or if
people just stopped
complaining about it.
16:35:07 * nirik saw a report of it this morning in #epel. It's still happening I
16:35:35 < paulobanon_> mmcgrath: is #3 happening due to the capacity thing, koji,
or any other unknown
16:35:47 < mmcgrath> I know dgilmore has been busy, I wonder if it would be possible
to recruit another
buildsys member to help.
16:35:53 < mmcgrath> its an unknown thing.
16:36:03 -!- G_ [n=nigel@wikipedia/NigelJ] has quit Connection timed out
16:36:06 < mmcgrath> a build will succeed, mock exits with 0 (as it should) but then
plague thinks it
16:36:54 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: ?
16:37:03 < mmcgrath> maybe $DAYJOB called :)
16:37:05 < paulobanon_> he prolly got called again
16:37:12 < mmcgrath> we can go back to that later.
16:37:36 < mmcgrath> So yeah, the builder outages are bad but they're being
16:37:45 < mmcgrath> Anyone else have something they would like to discuss?
16:38:10 * jima fields a phone call while trying to get sip software to work ;P
16:38:14 < mmcgrath> ricky: can you give us our weekly FAS2 round up?
16:38:56 < ricky> Well, I've attempted to move all access controll stuff into
auth.py- it might need to
be checked for some logic errors :)
16:38:59 < nirik> mmcgrath: is there any wiki page or other info about sponsoring?
What is needed and
what a sponsor gets? My company might be interested, but I would need
info on what I
am asking from them and what they get...
16:39:27 < ricky> I'll probably be asking a bit about the formalities
surrounding the CLA process/how we
plan to do that soon.
16:40:04 < mmcgrath> nirik: I'm new to that so I've been taking notes as I
go. I've been getting
spatterings of email from people and there was a thread on FAB about
it but I
hesitate to write anything down yet because I don't want to make
16:40:30 < mmcgrath> nirik: if you are interested send me an email and I'll give
you the low down.
16:40:40 < ricky> Other than that, as mentioned before, I'm looking into using a
separate database to
manage stuff such as email changes and pending requests for groups.
16:40:50 < mmcgrath> ricky: cool, I had always thought of that as almost a wizard
16:40:50 < skvidal> mmcgrath: should we talk about start.fedoraproject.org?
16:40:55 < mmcgrath> I want to make it easier.
16:41:05 < mmcgrath> skvidal: yeah, we'll do that after FAS2.
16:41:06 < nirik> mmcgrath: ok.
16:41:13 < skvidal> ok
16:41:45 < ricky> So e-mail verification will be handled on creating an account-
does that mean that we
can do a sign/copy/paste process?
16:42:02 < ricky> (And just check the validity of the signature/that it matches the
16:42:03 < mmcgrath> ricky: yeah or a file upload or something.
16:42:12 < ricky> Ah, that easier, actually.
16:42:13 < warren> much easier than e-amil
16:42:15 < warren> e-mail
16:42:33 * dgilmore is here now
16:42:34 < mmcgrath> we'll still want to forward it as an email on. All
CLA's get sent to some mailbox
for legal (I don't even really know if they check it but even now
16:43:07 < mmcgrath> ricky: sounds like thats going well, anything else?
16:43:32 < ricky> That's it for now- I'm taking a tiny break and looking at
possible website stuff at
16:43:40 < mmcgrath> cool
16:44:06 < mmcgrath> Ok, as skvidal mentioned, there's a possible new feature
16:44:11 < skvidal> 'feature'
16:44:22 * mmcgrath digs up FAB link
16:44:24 < skvidal> everyone go to start.fedoraproject.org
16:44:30 < paulobanon_> going
16:44:40 < skvidal> it's a google search page for fedora - like the firefox
search page in default
16:44:59 < skvidal> the feature suggestion is to make that fedora's default
16:45:28 < mmcgrath>
16:45:29 < warren> I hope we do keep it very simple like this.
16:45:29 < skvidal> now right now the website is at rackspace
16:45:36 < skvidal> warren: not likely
16:45:52 < skvidal> and it is a JSP
16:45:56 -!- mbonnet is now known as mbonnet_
16:45:57 < skvidal> that will/can change
16:45:58 < warren> skvidal, with a prominent link to all the fedora info
16:46:18 < skvidal> again - it needs to be a bit busier than it is
16:46:30 < skvidal> but I agree - not confusingly so
16:46:35 < mmcgrath> skvidal: actually I think right now that is just a static
16:46:39 < ricky> JSP? Why does it need anything more than a static page?
16:46:43 < paulobanon_> skvidal, mmcgrath: whats the possibility for u guys to
contact google to sponsor
a minigoogle ?
16:46:44 < skvidal> the search results are jsp
16:46:57 < skvidal> a google bot?
16:46:59 < skvidal> no.
16:47:05 < skvidal> we don't want to host any non-open infrastructure
16:47:05 < warren> if the front page is kept simple like this, perhaps 1) people
wont change the front
page 2) we can easily display new info prominently 3) maybe Fedora can
google ad revenue
16:47:07 * mmcgrath never did bother searching
16:47:11 < paulobanon_> it also works as a search engine
16:47:17 < ricky> Aha, I guess the JSP thing might not be active at the moment.
16:47:18 < skvidal> and a google bot is decidedly non-open
16:47:32 < skvidal> warren: the front page is not a decision for the infrastructure
team to make
16:47:33 < paulobanon_> skvidal: thats true
16:47:42 < warren> skvidal, right, it was just an idea
16:47:52 < skvidal> what fedora gets out of this is some revenue
16:48:01 < skvidal> the adwords would pay back to us
16:48:32 < mmcgrath> skvidal: maybe thats the part I missed, where's the jsp
come into play? I was
under the impression that no serverside stuff was going on as of yet
except for the
handoff to google.
16:48:51 < warren> who decides what goes on the front page?
16:48:57 * warren wants to know who to talk to.
16:49:02 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i think its just to add some dynamic contenet
16:49:04 < skvidal> mmcgrath: don was a bit fuzzy on that to me, too. but he was
very clear it can be
replaced with other languages
16:49:06 < jima> that sounds like policy to me ;)
16:49:08 < dgilmore> internal only stuff
16:49:15 < skvidal> warren: docs/websites/board
16:49:20 < dgilmore> it could be python from my understanding
16:49:26 < skvidal> warren: the same people who determine what goes on fp.org
16:49:28 < skvidal> dgilmore: yes
16:49:32 -!- rdieter_away [n=rdieter(a)sting.unl.edu] has quit Remote closed the connection
16:49:45 < warren> mmcgrath, it is possible for the page to be static (local) while
using ajax for
optionally displaying a dynamic headline
16:49:57 < skvidal> warren: yes- that was discussed on fab list
16:50:06 < skvidal> but the point for this discussion
16:50:08 < skvidal> is not that part
16:50:19 < warren> ajax, sorry for using you.
16:50:26 < mmcgrath> I guess its murky because the non-static stuff they are
proposing doesn't exist. I
don't know what its supposed to do.
16:50:31 < skvidal> the part is - if we get this - we'll need to have a place to
16:50:32 * ricky shudders a bit.
16:50:36 < skvidal> b/c we want it on machines WE control
16:50:50 < skvidal> WE == fedora infrastructure
16:50:56 < skvidal> WE != red hat, inc
16:51:08 < paulobanon_> skvidal: duke ?
16:51:10 < mmcgrath> which, right now, it is on RH, inc.
16:51:20 < skvidal> paulobanon_: they can be in the colo
16:51:24 < skvidal> but if max calls me and says
16:51:31 < skvidal> "take that ad box off there RIGHT NOW"
16:51:40 < skvidal> I don't want to have to go through seven layers of
indirection to get it done
16:51:46 < ricky> Heh.
16:51:48 < skvidal> I want one of us to be able to ssh in, modify puppet and nuke
16:51:53 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: well I think we could host it, especially if we
can get a few more
proxy boxes. The question is I still don't know what the heck
the 'server side' is
supposed to do.
16:52:02 -!- gregdek is now known as gregdek_gone
16:52:13 < skvidal> mmcgrath: I'll get a firm answer on that
16:52:23 < mmcgrath> k
16:52:28 < skvidal> paulobanon_: hosted at the phx colo is fine - multiple sites is
16:52:37 < skvidal> I'm not worried about rh being evil - it's clear rh is
NOT being evil
16:52:43 < skvidal> my concern is with rh being busy
16:52:56 < skvidal> and not being able to get to something immediately b/c of other
16:52:57 < paulobanon_> skvidal: understood
16:52:59 < warren> The non-static stuff could be very simple, simply serving the RSS
data for display.
Load would be relatively small.
16:53:06 < mmcgrath> <nod> the first rollout of start.fp.o is currently
planned to be on A box in a
16:53:07 < warren> All links from there go elsewhere
16:53:15 < dgilmore> skvidal: its currently in a colo AFAIK we should make sure don
16:53:36 < warren> mmcgrath, is rackspace a certainty? There are cheaper options
16:53:47 < skvidal> dgilmore: yah - it's only for f8t2 - I think bu t3 or GA we
should have that fixed
16:53:48 < dgilmore> warren: don already has the server rented
16:53:51 < skvidal> warren: rackspace is where it is now
16:53:51 < warren> ah
16:54:00 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: we can do that, I've made it very clear that what
is currently there is
not 'live' or 'blessed' to be official.
16:54:30 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: reminds me i should setup access to sparc builders
16:55:26 < mmcgrath> So long story short, we as a group have a list of demands and
we need to communicat
that to Donald.
16:55:36 < skvidal> I'll do it
16:55:46 < skvidal> and I'll cc dgilmore and mmcgrath on it, kewl?
16:55:53 < mmcgrath> skvidal: k, if you change your mind let me know.
16:55:54 < dgilmore> skvidal: sounds perfect
16:56:16 < skvidal> dgilmore: you're ausil@ right?
16:56:21 < skvidal> mmcgrath: why would I change my mind?
16:56:23 * mmcgrath notes we're only talking about implementation here. What it is,
does and any $$
that get exchanged is between the board I guess.
16:56:32 < mmcgrath> skvidal: no idea, just throwing it out there :0
16:56:38 < skvidal> mmcgrath: ok
16:57:26 < skvidal> dgilmore: yo uneed to get dgilmore@ as an alias :)
16:57:34 < mmcgrath> Ok, so it sounds like we have some action items to do there.
16:57:43 < mmcgrath> Anyone have anything else? we've got about 5min left in
16:58:25 < mmcgrath> Ok, if no one has anything we'll close the meeting in 30
16:58:42 < mmcgrath> 15
16:58:52 < mmcgrath> 5
16:59:01 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Meeting
16:59:04 < mmcgrath> Thanks for coming everyone
16:59:09 < paulobanon_> thx mmcgrath
16:59:15 < ricky> Thanks.
16:59:39 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various
and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged
questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See
17:00:49 * ricky finally finishes reading the mailing list thread :)
17:01:37 < dgilmore> skvidal: dgilmore@ works
17:01:43 < skvidal> ooo good
17:01:49 < dgilmore> skvidal: i am ausil@ though
17:02:44 < dgilmore> i should sign up for a second account or do something to
blacklist dgilmore from
becoming a fas account
17:03:08 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: we should add a blacklist feature to FAS
17:03:09 < ricky> Hm.. the same probably applies to all of those extra aliases in
17:03:21 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: probably a good idea
17:03:23 * ricky adds a TODO for FAS2.
17:03:25 < warren> didn't we get rid of the aliases?
17:03:40 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: hey, I forgot to ask you have you had any more chance
to debug the failed
17:03:45 < mmcgrath> warren: just the Firstname.Lastname aliases.
17:03:47 < dgilmore> warren: there are aliases that are there for things not part of
17:03:51 < warren> ooh
17:04:02 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: no ill get some time tonight
17:04:03 * jima doesn't miss the firstname.lastname alias
17:04:11 < jima> but then, no one really uses my name anyway
17:04:24 < dgilmore> jima: alot of people probably dont know it
17:04:30 < jima> dgilmore: nope
17:07:29 < jima> heh, i guess i got a sip client to work, after the meeting ended