16:10 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Who's here? 16:10 * ricky 16:10 * ianweller 16:10 -!- sharkcz [n=dan@plz1-v-4-17.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:10 -!- MrBawb [i=abob@goldfish.drown.org] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:10 -!- nim-nim [n=nim-nim@fedora/nim-nim] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:10 -!- notting [n=notting@redhat/notting] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:10 -!- sternecg [n=sternecg@ohnat.bristolwest.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:11 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: dgilmore f13 G lmacken paulobanon skvidal others I've forgotten: PING! 16:11 * abadger1999 stands on his dot and raises his hand 16:11 * f13 16:12 < skvidal> hi 16:12 * MrBawb 16:12 < mmcgrath> starting a little late today :) 16:12 < skvidal> slacker 16:12 * ianweller , again 16:12 < mmcgrath> jcollie: you around 16:12 < jcollie> yo 16:12 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Tickets 16:12 < mmcgrath> .tiny https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/query?status=new&status=a... 16:12 < zodbot> mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/47e37y 16:12 < mmcgrath> .tickety 395 16:12 < mmcgrath> .ticket 395 16:12 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #395 (Audio Streaming of Fedora Board Conference Calls) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/395 16:13 * dgilmore is here 16:13 < mmcgrath> jcollie: dgilmore: so sometime in the next week or two I'm going to start getting the asterisk install in better shape for all of that and build an asterisk2 box, etc. 16:13 < jcollie> cool 16:13 < mmcgrath> jcollie: I'm assuming no progress on the audio streaming for now? 16:13 < jcollie> nope 16:13 < mmcgrath> Since mediawiki is now deployed after next week asterisk is my next major project. 16:14 < ricky> Cool :-) 16:14 < mmcgrath> specifically fas integration and deployment. 16:14 < dgilmore> :) 16:14 < mmcgrath> .ticket 398 16:14 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #398 (elfutils `monotone' (mtn) error) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/398 16:14 -!- rmcgrath [n=roland@c-76-102-158-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:14 -!- daMaestro [n=jon@fedora/damaestro] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:14 < rmcgrath> mmcgrath: hii 16:14 < mmcgrath> rmcgrath: howdy, any word on - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/398 16:14 < mmcgrath> ? 16:15 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi@nat/redhat-us/x-2ef0128bbf8b70fd] has quit "Leaving" 16:15 < rmcgrath> mmcgrath: sorry, no progress (real work keeps taking priority, silly me) 16:15 < mmcgrath> no worries, we'll skip it for now 16:15 < rmcgrath> otay 16:15 -!- rmcgrath [n=roland@c-76-102-158-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #fedora-meeting [] 16:15 < mmcgrath> .ticket 446 16:15 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #446 (Possibility to add external links on spins page) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/446 16:15 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: anything? 16:16 -!- fab [n=bellet@bellet.info] has quit "Leaving" 16:17 < dgilmore> no i still suck 16:17 < mmcgrath> k 16:17 < mmcgrath> .ticket 547 16:17 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #547 (Koji DB Server as postgres 8.3) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/547 16:18 < mmcgrath> This one's on hold until we get db3 installed which, btw brings me to my next topic. 16:18 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Hardware Installs 16:18 < mmcgrath> So next week I'll be in PHX, all week. 16:18 < dgilmore> :) 16:18 < mmcgrath> installing, IIRC, around 16 new servers. 16:18 < ricky> Woah. 16:18 < mmcgrath> it'll be a variation of blades and normal rack mounts. 16:18 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: ill be able to install the new builders 16:19 < jcollie> yowza 16:19 * f13 is quite excited. 16:19 < f13> mmcgrath: we should talk about the breakdown of blades. 16:19 < dgilmore> f13: as am i 16:19 < mmcgrath> but I'll likely be busy doing that all week so if you need something... ping someone else :) 16:19 < mmcgrath> f13: as in x86_64 vs ppc? 16:19 < f13> that and what duties they'll be put under 16:19 < dgilmore> f13: all builders 16:19 < f13> and what we'll do with the existing builders. 16:20 < dgilmore> f13: existing will remain 16:20 < dgilmore> though we could get rid of hammer2 xenbuilder1 and ppc1 16:20 < f13> I'd like to have a PPC system for doing community logins with mock 16:20 < dgilmore> they are the 3 oldest builders 16:20 < f13> that continues to run RHEL5 to match the actual buildsystem. 16:21 < mmcgrath> So my plan was to have those old builders stay there until 1) they die or 2) we need the space. 16:21 < f13> with PHX2 now online, how much space do we currently have? 16:21 < mmcgrath> f13: as of yet, we've not touch PHX2. 16:22 < mmcgrath> err touched it. 16:22 < f13> /we/ haven't, but hasn't some RH stuff moved over to PHX2 leaving us some space in PHX? 16:22 < dgilmore> f13: we only have space in PHX1 16:22 < dgilmore> f13: no idea 16:22 < mmcgrath> all of our space is allocated in PHX1 (actually Mesa) 16:22 < mmcgrath> f13: technically we always had space, just no power. 16:22 < f13> I thought that was what led to us being able to deploy the blade center 16:22 < f13> ah. 16:22 < mmcgrath> welll. no power _and_ space was tighet. 16:22 < f13> well, what is our upper limit now? 16:22 < mmcgrath> but they found it somewhere 16:22 * mmcgrath cannot type today 16:23 < mmcgrath> we basically have two full racks now. 16:23 < mmcgrath> minus some space they leave reserved for administrative stuff (bottom 6 U and the top 2 or 3 U) 16:24 < mmcgrath> and I lied, it looks like I'll be installing 19 servers. I think as far as builders go we're getting 8 x86_64 boxes and 6 PPC 16:24 < f13> so if I came to you in 3~ months time and said we want to deploy an automated testing lab of a number of machines, would we be able to do that? 16:24 < mmcgrath> depends on how much time and what type of machines they are. 16:24 < ricky> How will having all of these new builders affect NFS? 16:24 < mmcgrath> f13: if thats the plan please let me know because come Q4, both racks will be filled already. 16:24 < mmcgrath> ricky: not sure, we have the ability to cache some of that though now. 16:25 < mmcgrath> I've been trying to get a good baseline and, for example. 16:25 < mmcgrath> .buildload 16:25 < zodbot> mmcgrath: Load: 1.9 Total: 36.0 Use: 5.3% (Very Light Load) 16:25 < f13> mmcgrath: I haven't found a source for the hardware yet, but it would likely be x86(_64) and rackable. 16:25 < f13> 1us, 2us 16:25 < mmcgrath> ^^^^ thats pretty typical. 16:25 < f13> mmcgrath: we have software being developed to do automated testing, I just don't know how soon we'd be to the point of deployment 16:25 < mmcgrath> f13: ping me after the meeting.... If this is beyond the early planing stage I really should have known already because all the space in PHX (including new space) is spoken for. 16:25 < f13> mmcgrath: I wouldn't say beyond. 16:26 < f13> just that Q4 is a loooong time away 16:26 < mmcgrath> Q4 is yeah, but unless your lab is going ot go in during Q2 and be removed during Q3, then my Q4 plans are messed up. 16:27 < mmcgrath> Also going in next week are 5 other servers. 16:27 < mmcgrath> one dedicated to replace DB1, one of them is going to replace lockbox, one is the new db3 and the other two are application servers. 16:27 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: whats the plans for cvs-int 16:28 < mmcgrath> cvs-int (the host) needs to be rebuilt. but the box is fairly new. 16:28 < ricky> Cool 16:28 < mmcgrath> remember we had a horrible crash about a year or so ago? 16:28 < dgilmore> :) ok 16:28 < dgilmore> yeah disk array went bad 16:28 < mmcgrath> IIRC we did some drive swapping or some dd action or something. I can't remember. 16:28 < mmcgrath> but yeah, we need to rebuild cvs-int. I might work on that this week actually. 16:28 < ricky> Hah. 16:29 < dgilmore> we had scsi back plane go bad along with 2 disks 16:29 < mmcgrath> then we need to get the lookaside off of there. 16:29 < dgilmore> :) 16:29 < mmcgrath> Anyone have any questions about next week? 16:30 < mmcgrath> alllrighty 16:30 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Mediawiki 16:30 < f13> not that shouldn't be held off until after the meeting 16:30 * ianweller is gone next week. so hit me with all your mediawiki problems today and tomorrow :) 16:30 < mmcgrath> :) 16:30 < mmcgrath> So yeah, we deployed a new wiki this week! 16:30 < mmcgrath> few problems aside its been mostly painless and according to plan. 16:30 < dgilmore> :) 16:31 < f13> fantastic job all around 16:31 < ianweller> and it looks a lot better too ;) 16:31 < mmcgrath> I'm hoping that after the next week or so all remaining kinks will have been worked out and people will have long forgotten Moin ever existed. 16:31 < dgilmore> i miss my moin syntax :) 16:31 < mmcgrath> There's already been some requests for plugins/extensions to be added. 16:31 < ianweller> no you don't 16:31 < mmcgrath> Which is nice because... THAT DIDN'T EXIST IN MOIN :) 16:31 < dgilmore> ianweller: i do 16:31 < ricky> Hehe. 16:31 < ianweller> mmcgrath: is this a good time to bring up the toolserver idea i had? 16:32 * ianweller brainwashes dgilmore accordingly 16:33 < dgilmore> ianweller: not going to work im thick headed 16:33 < mmcgrath> ianweller: go ahead. 16:33 * mmcgrath still doesn't totally get it. 16:33 -!- giarc_w [i=hidden-u@gnat.asiscan.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:33 < ianweller> ok so my idea was to create a toolserver, which could be used for some scripts and other mashups dealing with FAS, mediawiki, and other apps we have for fedora. 16:34 < mmcgrath> ianweller: give me a use case you have in mind. 16:34 < ianweller> the wikimedia foundation in germany has a toolserver, which has some neat scripts that are a little too complex to make mediawiki extensions for 16:34 < ianweller> um 16:34 < ianweller> regex page watching :) 16:34 < ianweller> you would login with FAS, enter what regexes you wanted, and the script would find those pages matching the regex using the API 16:35 < ianweller> it could then aggregate the RSS feeds and send out emails. 16:35 < ianweller> it would only use a bit of extra load on mediawiki, the script itself would reside on the toolserver 16:35 < ricky> I think Debian does have a lot of "non-official" tools that developers setup themselves. Not sure if they have something like a toolserver, though. 16:35 < mmcgrath> so exactly how much work is involved in implementing that and how many people would be using it? 16:35 -!- jeff_hann [n=arares@89.40.98.185] has left #fedora-meeting [] 16:35 -!- wolfy [n=lonewolf@fedora/wolfy] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:36 < mmcgrath> also, and I probably still don't understand it, but why is a "regex search engine" called a "tool server" ? 16:36 < MrBawb> what I have at work is an rss to irc gateway, that I use to monitor wiki edits. maybe something similiar would be useful? 16:36 < ianweller> the regex search engine would go on the toolserver, along with other scripts that programmers could write. 16:36 * ianweller notes that this is still a halfbaked idea 16:37 < ianweller> http://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Main_Page -- here's the wikimedia toolserver 16:37 < mmcgrath> <nod> 16:37 * ricky also notes that they seem to have some sort of application process to get an account. 16:37 < mmcgrath> ianweller: if you think it'll add value, I'd say run with it. You still have access to the publictest servers so you should have everything you need :) 16:38 < ianweller> ok. 16:38 < ianweller> that's another thing; should there be just one pt server for the 'tools', and if so which one should it be? 16:38 < mmcgrath> Ok, anyone have anything else on the wiki? 16:38 < skvidal> one quick question 16:39 < mmcgrath> ianweller: I'd just keep using pt2 for now. 16:39 < ianweller> mmcgrath: k. 16:39 < skvidal> are we doing anything with the xmlrpc interface for it, yet? 16:39 < mmcgrath> skvidal: not yet, i've actually been trying to get that up and going this afternoon. I'd expect it to be working soon. 16:39 < ianweller> MrBawb: almost missed your message, i was gonna setup an irc bot to listen to recent changes and report to a channel 16:39 < mmcgrath> skvidal: we _are_ using mediawiki's xmlrpc interface in smolt though. 16:39 < skvidal> mmcgrath: and aren't there mediawiki python bindings? 16:39 < MrBawb> ianweller: ah, cool 16:39 -!- mdomsch [n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has quit Remote closed the connection 16:40 < mmcgrath> good question, I'm not sure. I'm just using the standard python xmlrpc bindings. 16:40 < skvidal> nod 16:40 < skvidal> that's what I thought 16:40 -!- mdomsch [n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:40 < skvidal> I wanted to check on that though b/c it is intriguing to me 16:40 < ricky> skvidal: I think so. 16:40 < ianweller> skvidal: i think i remember seeing some somewhere, but i think they're implemented within a bot platform 16:40 < mmcgrath> skvidal: yeah, it'll be interesting to see what our greater community comes up with. 16:40 < f13> if there is xmlrpc, I bet lmacken will hookup an ability to use vim to edit the wiki 16:40 < skvidal> mmcgrath: wiki-mining :) 16:40 < mmcgrath> :) 16:40 < f13> (like he did for the Trac wikis/tickets) 16:40 < mmcgrath> alrighty, if no one has anything else we'll move on to the next topic. 16:41 < ricky> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Using_the_python_wikipediabot) 16:41 < mmcgrath> ok 16:41 -!- tibbs [n=tibbs@fedora/tibbs] has quit "Konversation terminated!" 16:41 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Open Floor 16:41 < mmcgrath> anyone have anything to discuss? 16:41 < mdomsch> sponsoring people? 16:42 < mdomsch> I've had a couple requests in the last few weeks 16:42 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: always an excellent topic. 16:42 < mmcgrath> how many people have taken on sponsors in the last month? 16:42 * mmcgrath has :) 16:42 < f13> I have not. 16:42 < mdomsch> I presume the method is to have them join sysadmin and sysadmin-test 16:42 < mdomsch> sponsor them there, and find them somethign to do 16:43 < mdomsch> from the trac list 16:43 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: correct, my general approach has been this 16:43 < mmcgrath> 1) get them on sysadmin and try to figure out what they want to do. 16:43 < mmcgrath> from there I usually stick them in sysadmin-devel sysadmin-test or, in rare instances, right into sysadmin-web. 16:43 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: how have your sponsors been? pretty reactive? 16:43 * abadger1999 has 16:44 < mdomsch> my minions have been pretty quiet thus far 16:44 -!- wolfy [n=lonewolf@fedora/wolfy] has quit Remote closed the connection 16:44 < mdomsch> but I've been away a lot since then too 16:44 -!- sharkcz [n=dan@plz1-v-4-17.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit "Ukončuji" 16:44 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: how have your sponsors been? 16:45 < abadger1999> They come and go :-( 16:45 < mmcgrath> yeah 16:45 < abadger1999> I think people have time and so they apply and get started, then other things come up and they leave for a while. 16:45 -!- couf [n=bart@fedora/couf] has quit "leaving" 16:45 < mmcgrath> yeah, 16:46 < mmcgrath> thats one of the hardest things I've seen is people volunteering who just don't have the time they need to. 16:46 < mmcgrath> nothing's worse then working with, training, answering questions, for someone that can only give an hour or so every other week. 16:46 < mmcgrath> the interest is nice. but the amount of work that goes into a voulnteer vs how much you get out doesn't always add up :( 16:46 < mdomsch> it's best to find them something they can be responsible for 16:47 < mmcgrath> I'd *LOVE* to get a volunteer management expert or something at FUDCon this year. 16:47 < mdomsch> ownership breeds interest 16:47 < mdomsch> e.g. someone who is good at mailman instances could offload dgilmore 16:47 < mmcgrath> Thats a good example of a core problem I've seen. 16:48 < mmcgrath> someone comes to volunteer wanting to manage our xen infrastructure (just an example) but then goes away when they find out they have to pay the dues. 16:48 < dgilmore> :( me will go and hide 16:48 < mmcgrath> when you find someone willing to pay the dues (like work on mailman) they don't stick around very long. 16:48 < mmcgrath> its that hard balance I guess. 16:48 * mmcgrath takes this time to curse at RH's vpn solution. 16:48 < mmcgrath> anywho. 16:49 < ricky> Heh. 16:49 < wfp> coming from the other side, I feel like it's hard to find where I can start to help, other than contrib a package. 16:49 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: do you think we're doing the right thing or should we re-examine our situation? 16:49 -!- drago01_ [n=linux@chello062178124130.3.13.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #fedora-meeting 16:49 < mmcgrath> wfp: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ pick a ticket and start helping. 16:49 < mmcgrath> its really that easy. 16:49 < skvidal> wfp: if you find you need access to things ping me 16:50 < skvidal> or mmcgrath 16:50 < mdomsch> that's a good start; picking some easy-to-do things that we'd like a new volunteer to take on would help 16:50 < skvidal> or anyone 16:50 < ricky> How can we encourage more feedback from would-be conributors? 16:50 < dgilmore> mdomsch: please make me obsolete :) 16:50 < skvidal> but I sponsored you for sysadmin 16:50 < londo> picking a ticket sometimes require some knowledge on how the system works though 16:50 < skvidal> so ping me 16:50 -!- drago01 [n=linux@chello062178124130.3.13.univie.teleweb.at] has quit Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) 16:50 < dgilmore> or me 16:50 < ricky> Feel free to ask in #fedora-admin. We're pretty open about our setup 16:50 < sternecg> londo: true 16:50 -!- drago01_ is now known as drago01 16:50 * dgilmore would like to make sure that if he fell off the planet that things would be ok 16:51 < wfp> Yeah, it's the details of getting access to systems and stuff. Either I'm missing the docs on that stuff or I just need to dive and bug you guys as I go on my first trip 16:51 < ricky> wfp: Feel free to bug :-) 16:51 < mmcgrath> wfp: so when you found a ticket you were interested in working on.... what did you do? 16:51 < mmcgrath> and more importantly, why did you do it? 16:52 < wfp> Nothing yet, as I wasn't sure how/what I would still need to do to actually get the appropriate actions. 16:53 < mmcgrath> so you found what you wanted to do. and then did nothing. 16:53 < ricky> wfp: Commenting on the ticket/asking in #fedora-admin or the list sounds like a good first step. 16:53 < mmcgrath> ricky: but how do we get that point across to people that haven't done it I think is what wfp is saying. 16:53 < mmcgrath> this is the same issue I blogged about the account system the other day. 16:53 < wfp> I found something I *might* be able to do, but wasn't sure how to go about looking into further. 16:54 < ricky> wfp: Did you see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingStarted by any chance? 16:54 < ricky> Should we work on improving that page? 16:54 < ricky> Or is it not visible enough in the first place? 16:54 < mmcgrath> new voluteers, in my mind, just seem completely clueless as to what to do next, no matter how explicit we document, now matter how full a GettingStarted page is, they just don't do anything. 16:54 < mmcgrath> I don't know if this is a process thing, a training thing or what. 16:54 < ricky> Perhaps a huge banner on the Infrastructure page could help? 16:55 < sternecg> mmcgrath: I would say training.. 16:55 < mmcgrath> quaid: you around? 16:55 < ricky> "If you'd like to help, read this!" 16:55 < wfp> What I feel is lacking is a more of a process thing. 16:55 < mmcgrath> I just don't understand why someone would show up, say they want to help (or even worse just sign up for an account) and thast the end of it? 16:55 < abadger1999> 1) joinmsg for cla_done should direct people to the toplevel getting started in fedora page that outlines what projects to join. 16:55 < ricky> mmcgrath: One thing that's weird is that I never see people respond to your welcome emails on list. 16:55 < mmcgrath> I mean if you want to do something, why aren't you looking around for stuff to do, and bugging people to do it? 16:55 < ricky> (Your reply to their introduction) 16:55 < mmcgrath> ricky: no kidding. 16:56 < abadger1999> 2) We should have a group description field that outlines what a group is and what to do once you've decided you want to be a part of it. 16:56 < mmcgrath> We should also make it very clear that applying for a group is the _last_ thing you should do if you're new to fedora. 16:56 < abadger1999> <nod> 16:56 < wfp> For example, from the mailing list, I see you folks appear to be maintaining config files in CVS. Again, I may missed the docs, but I don't see how you guys do that process. 16:56 < mmcgrath> I love new people but why on earth someone thinks they can come in and be an account system admin is beyond me. 16:57 < ricky> I'm honestly not as concerned about group spam than I am with the response to people that do know what they want to do. 16:57 < skvidal> wfp: once you get access to things you can ssh into certain machines and modify/check things in 16:57 < mmcgrath> wfp: there's no point in telling you that though because you're not at that level yet. 16:57 < mmcgrath> I mean, when the time comes and access is given, one of the first things I always tell people is look at SOP/Puppet. 16:57 < abadger1999> wfp: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/SOP/Puppet 16:57 < mmcgrath> but why would someone be given that access if they've not even agreed to do anything yet? 16:58 < wfp> I'm not expecting the access, I just want to see the path. 16:58 < mmcgrath> well, curiosity is one thing. 16:58 < mmcgrath> wfp: lets say you started from the begnining. 16:58 < mmcgrath> how do you think it should have gone? 16:58 < ricky> wfp: It's not that we wouldn't tell you if you asked :-) 16:59 < mmcgrath> lowering the barriers is a very important thing to me which is why I'm bugging wfp. He's fresh meat, clean view of how things seemed to him. 16:59 < ricky> I think we just don't see a point to training that part until the person has something to work on. 17:00 < mmcgrath> I think, perhaps, we need a much better "what to expect" page on the wiki somewhere to help shape what new volunteers can expect. 17:00 < mmcgrath> I always try to do that, its in the GettingStarted section, I think its even in the about section of the account system. 17:00 < mmcgrath> bah, we're out of time. 17:00 < mmcgrath> wfp: we'll have to continue this next time :) thanks for your comments though 17:01 < sternecg> thanks for the discussion 17:01 < mmcgrath> if no one has anything else we'll close the meeting in 15 17:01 < ricky> Quick thing: 17:01 < ricky> .ticket 576 17:01 < zodbot> ricky: #576 (Infrastructure Contact Information) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/576 17:01 < mmcgrath> ricky: how about a file in the private repo on puppet1? 17:02 < ricky> mmcgrath: That sounds good 17:02 < mmcgrath> k 17:02 < mmcgrath> and with that :) 17:02 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Meeting End