There will be an outage starting at 2009-06-23 20:00 UTC, which will last
approximately 2 and a half hours.
To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at
date -d '2009-06-23 20:00 UTC'
CVS / Source Control
Reason for Outage:
Step 1 of a two step migration process for cvs (moving to different
hardware). If this goes well, step 2 will come later in the week. CVS
commits will continue to work during this time. Lookaside cache
availability will be intermittent. If a build fails, just re-try later.
Please join #fedora-admin in irc.freenode.net or respond to this email to
track the status of this outage.
Also avaliable at:
20:01 < fedbot`> Meeting started Thu Jun 18 20:01:09 2009 UTC. The chair is mmcgrath.
20:01 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Who's here
20:01 < fedbot`> Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot , Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01 * ricky
20:01 * lmacken
20:02 < nirik> there it goes.
20:02 * sthistle says hi.. 1st time
20:02 < ricky> Welcome :-)
20:02 -!- fedbot [n=supybot(a)scrye.com] has quit Read error: 113 (No route to host)
20:02 -!- fedbot` is now known as fedbot
20:02 < mmcgrath> Ok, so lets get started
20:03 < mmcgrath> #topic Infrastructure -- Tickets
20:03 < Jorn23> I'm here too
20:03 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Tickets
20:03 < mmcgrath> .tiny https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/query?status=new&status=as...
20:03 < zodbot> mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/47e37y
20:03 < mmcgrath> .ticket 1464
20:03 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #1464 (Puppet Web Apps Refactoring) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1464
20:03 < mmcgrath> ricky: you want to take this one?
20:03 < mmcgrath> Jorn23: hey
20:03 < ricky> Sure
20:03 < Jorn23> heya :)
20:03 < ricky> I've been working on converting all of our apps to puppet modules
20:04 * dgilmore is here
20:04 < ricky> Right now, most of our applications are running off of the modules under the stg.fedoraproject.org namespaces.
20:04 < ricky> For this first piece, my goal is to only touch the app and proxy servers to keep things manageable.
20:04 * abadger1999 here
20:05 < mmcgrath> ricky: if you were to guess, what % done are you?
20:05 < ricky> The way that I'd *like* to move things over is to get the staging environment into the exact configuration that we want, and then just drop it right into the master branch.
20:06 < ricky> I have all of our large apps moved, but I haven't gotten all of the behaviors of our production configs, like some redirects and stuff.
20:06 < ricky> So maybe 70-80% or so. I'm going to try and get the details matched up today, then send an email out asking people ot make sure that *.stg.fedoraproject.org behaves exactly like they want it.
20:07 < mmcgrath> excellent.
20:07 < mmcgrath> ricky: thanks for that
20:07 < mmcgrath> ricky: should we avoid messing staging up much until that's done?
20:07 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk
20:08 -!- sgodsell [n=sgodsell@unaffiliated/sgodsell] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:08 < ricky> Most of the puppet modules aren't changing much at this point
20:08 < ricky> Just keep in mind if that if you want configuration changes to show up in staging, you need to edit the files in the module
20:08 < mmcgrath> <nod>
20:08 < mmcgrath> ricky: anything else on that?
20:09 < ricky> Nope, thanks
20:09 < mmcgrath> coolz.
20:09 -!- JukeBoxHero [n=gorillaJ@fedora/hitboxx] has quit "No Ping reply in 90 seconds."
20:10 < mmcgrath> Ok, so thats the last ticket there.
20:10 -!- JukeBoxHero [n=gorillaJ@fedora/hitboxx] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:10 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Cloud stuff
20:10 -!- maploin [n=mapleoin@fedora/maploin] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:10 < mmcgrath> So there's not been too much going on with this in the past month or so but if you've been watching the commit logs you'll notice I've been rebuilding it all.
20:10 < mmcgrath> I'm hoping to get something up and going fairly soon.
20:11 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital] has quit Remote closed the connection
20:11 < mmcgrath> I've been using it off and on with mostly success.
20:11 -!- BaRRa [n=tmakinen(a)tk-cn0002.oulu.fi] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:11 -!- denise [n=ddumas(a)126.96.36.199] has quit Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
20:11 < mmcgrath> There's a whole other web interface that some various people are working on to make it less 'ovirt ui' ish and more 'end user fedora friendly'
20:11 < mmcgrath> No ETA on that.
20:11 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: :)
20:12 < Jorn23> What exactly is "cloud stuff" ?
20:12 < mmcgrath> but I am hoping to queue up some of the queues.
20:12 < mmcgrath> Jorn23: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/XavierLamien/Infrastructure/FedoraCloud
20:12 < mmcgrath> I think that's fairly up to date.
20:12 < mmcgrath> with what we're doing
20:12 < Jorn23> Cheers, I'll read that up
20:12 < mmcgrath> but it's basically an http://ovirt.org/ setup.
20:13 < mmcgrath> Anyone have any questions on that?
20:13 -!- denise [n=ddumas@nat/redhat/x-7d59d02879b98a23] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:13 < mmcgrath> Ok.
20:14 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Lots of changes
20:14 < mmcgrath> so we've had a lot of changes since F11 shipped.
20:14 < mmcgrath> probably more changes in the last couple of weeks then we've ever had.
20:14 < mmcgrath> some have been major, some minor, but there's been a bunch of them.
20:14 < mmcgrath> I only bring it up because we've been shaking out bugs and things
20:14 * dgilmore has one coming up that id like to talk about at some point
20:14 < mmcgrath> so keep your eyes open.
20:15 < mmcgrath> and if you find something, please don't assume we know about it.
20:15 < mmcgrath> Thats really all I had on that :)
20:16 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- dgilmore wants to talk about "one coming up"
20:16 < mmcgrath> :)
20:16 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: whats the poop?
20:16 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: im killing plague tomorrow
20:16 * mmcgrath cheers
20:16 < mmcgrath> well sort of.
20:16 * nirik jumps up and down in joy.
20:16 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: whats our process going to be for signing and pushing?
20:16 < mmcgrath> do I need to build another signing server?
20:16 < dgilmore> epel will switch to koji
20:16 < dgilmore> i think i have bodhi ready
20:16 < dgilmore> but i need to run some things by lmacken
20:17 < dgilmore> who i can never get ahold of
20:17 < ricky> Feel free to update it in staging if you have a newer package.
20:17 < jwb> another signing server. ew
20:17 * mmcgrath wonders if koji.stg.fedoraproject.org is back up and running.
20:17 < dgilmore> i need to setup epel_releng
20:17 < dgilmore> epel-releng1
20:17 < dgilmore> something like that
20:17 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: thats a group or a host?
20:17 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: a host
20:18 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: who's going to be able to sign and push?
20:18 < dgilmore> to do mash and package signing on for epel
20:18 < mmcgrath> how long is that process going to take
20:18 < mmcgrath> etc
20:18 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:18 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: epel_signers
20:18 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: until we can test not sure
20:18 < dgilmore> but much shorted than fedora updates
20:18 < dgilmore> shorter
20:18 < mmcgrath> so maybe we don't want to kill plague until we know the rest of that stuff? :)
20:19 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: so aside from the additional signing server what do we need?
20:19 < jwb> dgilmore, why is it going to be shorter?
20:19 < f13> less packages?
20:19 < mmcgrath> or do we need another releng box and not a signing server for epel?
20:19 < dgilmore> jwb: alot less packages
20:19 < nirik> many fewer packages.
20:19 < jwb> ah
20:19 < f13> less arches too
20:19 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: just another releng box
20:19 < f13> does EPEL do ppc(64) ?
20:19 < jwb> i was thikning frequency. not per-push duration
20:19 < f13> will it?
20:19 < dgilmore> epel does ppc
20:19 < nirik> f13: it does.
20:20 < dgilmore> but not ppc64
20:20 < f13> ah ok
20:20 < dgilmore> i was approached this weeke about doing s390x for epel also
20:20 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: what about disk? right now releng2 requires direct write access to /mnt/koji
20:20 < nirik> the only weird thing is there is no desktop RHEL for pcc.
20:20 < nirik> ppc
20:20 < mmcgrath> I'd assume we don't want that for EPEL?
20:20 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: the epel releng box will need to write also
20:20 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: the process will be the same
20:20 < mmcgrath> :: sigh ::
20:21 < mmcgrath> are we really sure we want fedora's process infecting epels?
20:21 < dgilmore> and i guess we ould use the existing releng resources
20:21 < mmcgrath> epel used to have such low overhead.
20:21 < f13> mmcgrath: depends on how y ou look at it
20:21 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: lots of people want it
20:21 < f13> mmcgrath: shuffling the repodata around different locations isn't exactly "low" overhead
20:21 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: updates notifications will be a big win
20:22 < mmcgrath> f13: I look at it as someone who watched jwb freak out a couple of days ago because he started a push that he wasn't sure would finish in time for the pkgdb update which was something like 18 hours away at the time.
20:22 < nirik> also epel has no deltas to worry about.
20:22 < f13> mmcgrath: we're talking about different orders of magnitute
20:22 < f13> magnitude
20:22 < jwb> mmcgrath, yeah, what f13 said
20:22 < mmcgrath> right now we are.
20:22 < lmacken> the pkgdb update doesn't effect pushing updates
20:22 < lmacken> at all
20:22 < dgilmore> nirik: right at least until we get to rhel 6
20:22 < jwb> also what lmacken said
20:22 < abadger1999> lmacken: <nod> But jwb didn't *know* that.
20:22 < mmcgrath> lmacken: thats my other point. No one was quite sure about that because of how many moving parts were involved.
20:22 < jwb> but i see where mmcgrath is coming from
20:23 < lmacken> right
20:23 < mmcgrath> anywho, if we're going forward with it we're going forward with it.
20:23 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: you have a pretty good idea of how a relepel1 would work?
20:23 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i think we should go ahead
20:23 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i do
20:24 < mmcgrath> k, then we'll go forward.
20:24 -!- Dp67 [n=rberry@fedora/Dp67] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:24 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: ping me after the meeting about getting that server up, I'm positive we've got space for it somewhere.
20:24 < mmcgrath> f13: and that reminds me, I owe you a shiny new signing server :)
20:25 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: :) thanks
20:25 < f13> mmcgrath: cool
20:25 < mmcgrath> it's racked, I need to throw an OS on there and talk to you about migrating to it whenever you guys are ready.
20:25 < mmcgrath> hell I might just be able to use dd and copy the old signing server over.
20:25 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: if we get the signing server up and running it should be useable for EPEL as well as fedora
20:25 -!- cassmodiah [n=cass@fedora/cassmodiah] has quit Remote closed the connection
20:25 < mmcgrath> well, this signing server is just different hardware.
20:25 -!- warren [n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren] has quit "Leaving"
20:26 < mmcgrath> as for the signing server software, I think that's still a TODO
20:26 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: anything else on the EPEL move away from plague?
20:26 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: nope
20:26 < mmcgrath> coolz
20:26 < mmcgrath> #topic Infrastructure -- Signing Server
20:26 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Signing Server
20:27 < f13> we have signing server software to start using
20:27 < mmcgrath> f13: since you're here, do you want me to build the new signing server virtual so you guys can still log in and virsh and stuff?
20:27 < f13> and with the new hardware, now would be a good time to try and deploy it
20:27 < mmcgrath> f13: or do you want it to be physcial and require console access?
20:27 < mmcgrath> oh, excellent.
20:27 < f13> that's... a good question
20:27 < f13> can we get back to you on that? (:
20:27 < mmcgrath> f13: that'd probably work best then, it'll allow you guys to keep using the current signing box while the new one is getting ready.
20:27 < lmacken> f13: what software?
20:27 < f13> lmacken: mitr wrote software
20:27 < lmacken> f13: where is it?
20:27 < mmcgrath> f13: yeah, I'm on whatever schedule you guys want me to be :)
20:28 * ricky had no idea people were working on signing software
20:28 < f13> https://fedorahosted.org/sigul/browser
20:28 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital] has quit Remote closed the connection
20:28 < lmacken> oh, nice :)
20:28 -!- tatica is now known as tatica-out
20:29 < f13> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=sigul.git;a=summary if you prefer
20:29 < f13> it hasn't been touched in a while because we wanted to get F11 out before we disrupted the signing process.
20:29 < mmcgrath> heh
20:30 -!- dthomasdigital [n=dthomasd@ubuntu/member/dthomasdigital] has quit "Leaving"
20:30 < mmcgrath> K
20:30 < mmcgrath> we'll take a look at that
20:30 < mmcgrath> any other questions on the signing server?
20:31 < mmcgrath> Alllrighty.
20:31 -!- N3LRX [n=rberry@fedora/Dp67] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:31 * mmcgrath thinks of anything else...
20:31 < mmcgrath> I think that's really all I've got right now
20:31 < mmcgrath> #topic Infrastructure -- Who's here?
20:31 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Who's here?
20:31 < mmcgrath> #topic Infrastructure -- Open Floor
20:31 < mmcgrath> oops :)
20:31 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Open Floor
20:31 < nirik> I have one quick item.
20:31 < ricky> Heh
20:32 < mmcgrath> nirik: have at it
20:32 -!- kolesovdv [n=kolesovd(a)188.8.131.52] has quit Remote closed the connection
20:32 < nirik> I've been working with the meetbot plugin author... he hopes to have a release in the next few days with more features/cleanups/fixes. At that point I would like to set it up with zodbot and see about having it log to a fedoraproject.org area... also a search engine of some kind on it would be nice.
20:33 -!- sping [n=sping@gentoo/user/sping] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:33 < dgilmore> nirik: its a neat bot
20:33 < nirik> If anyone has feedback for it, let me know. If I need to request anything or get anything approved as far as setting it up, let me know. ;)
20:33 < nirik> I already have it packaged. Just waiting to import it for the changes to land.
20:34 < mmcgrath> nirik: I've been fine with it.
20:34 < mmcgrath> can anyone use the start and stop meeting bits?
20:34 < nirik> yep.
20:34 < mmcgrath> how's that access figured out?
20:34 < nirik> it's open to anyone on a channel where that plugin is enabled.
20:34 < mmcgrath> excellent
20:35 < nirik> however, there are now some native supybot commands to let bot admins close meetings/add chairs
20:35 < mmcgrath> nirik: we'll throw up some sort of web deal for logging
20:35 < mmcgrath> if we haven't already
20:35 < mmcgrath> ricky: have we already?
20:35 < ricky> Not now
20:35 < nirik> so, an admin could override and close a meeting that was mistakenly made
20:35 -!- mchua [n=mchua(a)184.108.40.206] has quit Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
20:36 -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia@fedora/sdziallas] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:36 < nirik> the upstream author is working on converting it to use Restructured text for it's summary... and then spit out html and a text suitable for posting to mailing lists.
20:36 -!- mchua [n=mchua@nat/redhat/x-a4d6433a89727a6d] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:36 < nirik> anyhow, just thought I would bring it up. Thats it.
20:36 -!- kolesovdv [n=kolesovd(a)220.127.116.11] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:37 < mmcgrath> nirik: excellent, thanks for keeping up with that
20:37 < mmcgrath> Anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
20:38 < Jorn23> Just had a question for ricky
20:38 < Jorn23> Or well, not really only for ricky
20:38 < Jorn23> Anyway
20:39 < ricky> Ask away :-)
20:39 < Jorn23> A couple of days ago we talked about me helping with the migrations to ha-proxy, when do you think you have time for that ricky?
20:39 < mmcgrath> Jorn23: have at it
20:39 < mmcgrath> Jorn23: yeah we found lots of small odds and ends that were still in balancer :)
20:40 < ricky> There are a few that we could get after the meeting if you're around
20:40 < ricky> It'd be helpful for the work I'm doing in staging, actually.
20:40 < mmcgrath> ricky: yeah, I figure if we could go through one or two with Jorn23 he'd be able to get the rest
20:40 < ricky> There might also be a few that I did in staging that would be good to get live.
20:40 -!- Dp67 [n=rberry@fedora/Dp67] has left #fedora-meeting ["Leaving"]
20:40 < Jorn23> That sounds good yeah
20:41 < Jorn23> But we can discuss the details outside the meeting I imagine.
20:42 < mmcgrath> Jorn23: sounds good, thanks for helping us work on that :)
20:42 < mmcgrath> anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
20:44 < mmcgrath> ok, well with that we'll close the meeting
20:44 < f13> I should bring up autotest
20:44 < mmcgrath> f13: oh, have at it
20:44 < mmcgrath> #topic Infrastructure -- autotest
20:44 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- autotest
20:44 -!- tibbs [n=tibbs@fedora/tibbs] has quit "Konversation terminated!"
20:44 < f13> the QA team and I have been working on getting something ready to go in Fedora Infra for automated testing
20:44 < f13> There was a work in progress "invented here" effort called AutoQA, however we recently discovered Autotest from the kernel project
20:45 < f13> it seems to fit our needs nicely and already has an upstream and community around it
20:45 < f13> so I've spent the week trying to get it packaged
20:45 < f13> and we plan to deploy it within FI shortly to do some initial automated testing
20:45 < f13> however there is a bit of a problem
20:45 < f13> the server side of autotest requires an older Django than what's in Fedora
20:45 < f13> and building autotest properly requires use of Google Web Toolkit
20:46 < f13> gwt isn't in Fedora, and will be an extreme pain to get in, due to the snowball effect of piles of java
20:46 < mmcgrath> hahahah
20:46 < ricky> Blech.
20:46 < mmcgrath> this is going to be a pile of fun :)
20:46 < f13> however gwt is in a RHEL5 product, and I think the Django version available for EL5 matches what we need
20:47 < f13> we'll continue to try and get gwt into Fedora, but that's going to have to be a project all on its own
20:47 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who@fedora/sonarguy] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:47 < mmcgrath> f13: k, I'll be happy to help with that when the time comes. We do have a free software policy to make sure we follow -
20:47 < f13> If I get something built via RHT's brew, would we be able to use it within FI to run an autotest host?
20:47 < mmcgrath> http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/free-software-policy/en-US/ht...
20:48 < mmcgrath> But yeah, I think we'll have hosts for it and stuff
20:48 < f13> all the software involved is free, it's just a huge hassle to get packaged.
20:48 < f13> I think james may have some machines to throw at it too, mostly I was looking for a policy decision
20:49 < mmcgrath> yeah, we'll figure something out.
20:49 < mmcgrath> f13: anything else on that for now?
20:49 < f13> but it did remove our need of gwt during package build. I'd prefer that we stuck with using gwt at build time, from RHT
20:50 < f13> nope. We'll likely be looking to host it after FUDCon Berlin
20:50 < mmcgrath> f13: sounds good
20:50 < f13> one last thing, has folks here had enough time to review the proposals that came from the recent FAD?
20:50 < mmcgrath> f13: There were proposals from FAD?
20:50 < f13> oh my yes
20:51 < f13> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Activity_Day_Fedora_Development_Cyc...
20:51 < f13> please do read and comment if there are any concerns, as we move these proposals further into planning and polishing up for submitting to FESCo
20:52 < mmcgrath> f13: k, I'll send a note to the infrastructure list and let people to know to read over them, I'll do the same.
20:52 < abadger1999> f13: Which ones affect FI?
20:52 -!- openpercept [n=openperc@fedora/openpercept] has quit Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
20:52 < abadger1999> Everything but hte first?
20:52 < f13> milestone does, as it reduces the freeze points (no more alpha), and yeah
20:52 < f13> pretty much all of them in one way or another.
20:53 < mmcgrath> f13: was anyone from Infrastructure at FAD?
20:53 * mmcgrath isn't sure who attended that
20:53 < ricky> I think skvidal might have been there
20:53 < mmcgrath> I think seth, jesse and luke?
20:54 < f13> yep
20:54 < mmcgrath> Ah, I see the Attendees section in the link.
20:54 < mmcgrath> K, anyone have anything else to discuss?
20:54 < mmcgrath> If not we'll close in 30
20:55 < mmcgrath> #endmeeting
I'm starting up a project to help everybody in Fedora by combining
statistical (not personal!) data retrieved from FAS, repositories in
Fedora Hosted, mailing lists, translations, and whatever else we can
possibly get our hands on to produce reports that help us see trends in
the activity of contributors, both new and old.
With this project, we'll be better able to understand the effects of
certain marketing techniques or development on what we can measure as
"activity" within the project. Other advantages may be seen as well.
Now, I'm simply starting this -- I don't have any shiny graphs to show
you just yet. But what I do need people to do is let me know what sort
of statistics would help them with what they do. It is also beneficial
to include things that we are already getting statistics on, or that we
previously received statistics for, so that these can all be integrated
into the same system.
Here's where to submit your ideas:
I'll be mostly AFK until the next weekend is over, so please surprise me
with your ideas :) If you have any questions, please get in touch with
Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org>
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
I should have sent one of these a while ago...
I've been lurking on this list and in #fedora-admin for many months,
though I don't usually happen to be around for the weekly meetings.
I've been a Fedora packager since sometime in 2006 and I currently
help maintain a few of the packages that infrastructure uses heavily:
git and puppet.
I don't always get large blocks of time to work on Fedora stuff each
week, but I do spend as much time with it as I can. I think I can
help out with handling fedorahosted requests and maybe even some
puppet tasks, which can hopefully help the regular contributors focus
more on larger projects and goals.
I talked a little with Ricky earlier today about trying to ensure the
git project creation was as smooth as possible and well documented.
I'll apply for sysadmin and sysadmin-hosted and see if he'll sponsor
me so I can get my feet wet and help out a little.
My Fedora account and IRC nick are both tmz.
Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.
Is it better to have:
id | smallString1 | smallString2 | smallString3 | largerString1
or put the largerString1 in it's own table? largerString1 I'm
specifically thinking about is for http://bugzilla.redhat.com/503550
Also, does mysql have a problem with having a table with many columns in
it? Where many== 20, 30, 40?
I'm specifically talking about a table with around 1.2 million rows in it
which is growing at a rate of several hundred thousand rows every 6
Fedora 11 Retrospective Recap
Wiki version: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Retrospective_Notes
Invitees: Cross section of people and leads from each group:
Attendees: James Laska, Bruno Wolff, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson, John
McDonough, Jon Stanley, Jarod Wilson, Todd Zullinger, Ricky Zhou, Steven
Moix, Mike McGrath,Jack Aboutboul, Paul Frields, Eric Christensen, John
Poelstra, Edward Kirk, Adam Williamson, Máirín Duffy, and Jesse Keating
Unrepresented Teams: Ambassadors, Translation
Location: Global teleconferencing system & Fedora Gobby
When: 2009-06-16 @ 14:00 UTC
== Meeting Guidelines & Agenda ==
1) Each person gets five minutes to say whatever they want. Suggested
questions to answer:
a) What went well?
b) What could have gone better?
c) If time and resources were not an issue, what three things would
make Fedora 12 our best release ever?
2) While the speaker has the floor nobody can interrupt or correct what
they are saying
--there are no "wrong" ideas
--other participants can seek clarification from speaker after they
3) Other attendees will help capture points raised in gobby
4) Open discussion and go forward plans after each person has had an
opportunity to speak
== Meeting Outcomes ==
o Individual feedback (see below)
o John Poelstra will create a wiki version of these notes and post link
to in email recap to fedora-advisory-board
o Jesse suggested checking back in a month to see how we are doing on
the things we said we said we wanted to change
--email is fine; telephone not required
o Jesse strongly urged people on the call to take the proposals from the
recent FAD back to their teams
--feedback needed ASAP
--will affect many parts of Fedora
o John Poelstra encourage attendees to blog about this meeting to give a
wider audience an understanding of what the meeting was like and what
they thought about it
o The Fedora CMS (Zicula) will affect a lot of groups in Fedora
--We need a point person to coordinate these efforts for our
greatest chance at success
--No one has been identified
o ADDED AFTER THE FACT by John Poelstra
--Anyone is free to tag onto the end of the wiki document to add
their own feedback
== Legend ==
(+) Went well
(-) Could have gone better
(w) Wish-list--no limits--everyone CAN have a pony
== Jon Stanley (jds2001) - fesco ==
(+) Feature process went well
--good contingency plans
(-) X item fell through the cracks
(-) Meeting minutes creation failed
(+) Started using a minute meeting bot
(w) Massive QA testing
(w) Earlier freezing/branching for critical packages
== Eric Christensen (Sparks) - docs ==
(-) Release notes churn at the last minute
--some is legitimately unforeseen, other notes just not timely enough
(-) docs.fedoraproject.org page doesn't flow well
--languages hard to find
(+) Turned out more guides and docs than past releases
(+) use of Red Hat guides that were relicensed
(w) Zikula CMS
--will replace the existing docs.fp.o
(w) standardize and focus on release notes and meet more users point
== Jarod Wilson (j-rod) - FESCo ==
(+) Feature process went smoothly--deadlines understood and less confusion
(+) No major disagreements within FESCo
(-) No major disagreements within FESCo
(-) Meeting minutes
(-) Collection of public feedback not optimal (need more _constructive_
(-) Secondary architecture team updates
(w) Focused Fedora kernel QA effort--build up community
== John J. McDonough (jjmcd) - docs ==
(+) people were great
(+) use of publican went surprisingly well
(+) install guide is the best we've ever had
(-) integrating milestones better into schedule
(-) pushing to docs.fedoraproject.org is an ugly process
--Too many formats
(-) Need more packagers on the docs team
(w) More engagement with developers/determining who to talk to
(w) PackageKit get fixed
--problems finding application to click on
(w) Problems with wireless on NetworkManager
== Edward Kirk (tk009) - BugZappers ==
(+) Communication really good about what was going on between all the
teams and across the project
(+) More people are joining the project and contributing
(-) Blocker bugs were not handled very well
(-) Problems at the end with Anaconda
--identifying blocker bugs before the last minute
(w) A more solid, stable release that is technically better than
anything else out there
== James Laska (jlaska) - QA ==
(+) 20 test days--way more than F10
(+) Documentation around test days and how to create live images, etc.
(+) Test results reporting
(+) Common F11 Bugs
--multiple teams were invested in success
(+) Community testing
(-) No specific test days for Sound
(-) No concept of capacity
(-) Clarify hand off procedures between Release Engineering & QA for RC
--"who has the ball?"
(-) Transparency around release readiness decision and whether to slip
--public discussion & publish minutes
(-) Automation of testing
(-) No metrics around health of QA community
(w) Micro-communities around each of the features
--blocker bug tracking
(w) Community test case management system
== Adam Williamson (adamw) - QA/BugZappers ==
(-) reading several reviews that Fedora 11 is un-installable
(-) unclear how to get in late release notes additions in a cooperative way
(+) Test Days were fantastic
(+) BugZappers and QA wiki spaces were substantially revised
(w) A massive testing lab
(w) Improving kernel triage for future releases
== Bruno Wolff - Games Spin ==
(+) Help from Jeremy Katz to enhance livecd-tools for larger games iso size
(+) Rawhide updates come quickly from the mirrors and Koji
(+) test days were helpful and gave focus to people
(+) New Spin process documentation got developed
--specific test instructions are now available
(-) Broken installer and video got in the way of testing
--painful when rawhide was broken
(-) We don't have a process for maintaining recurring spins
(w) Less broken stuff
(w) Spins process document finished
(w) Lots of test days
(w) More with live USB with persistent storage
== Jack Aboutboul & Steven Moix - Marketing ==
(+) Lots of progress restructuring the marketing team
(+) Release schedule helped cross team coordination
(-) Need to identify task inter dependencies and add them to the schedule
(-) Better capture things that get accomplished
(+) Inter group communication with Art, Translation, etc.
(w) Host mini-meetings with different teams throughout the release cycle
(+) Continuous content production
--building up and telling stories
(w) Fedora Magazine
(+) Tracking press reports in different languages
(w) Finding a better way to do metrics to identify how far our reach is
and understand audience
(w) More marketing to younger audiences and greater public awareness
== Ricky Zhou - Websites==
(+) two or three people helping consistently with Web team tasks
(-) Late changes from marketing and docs team which had minor impact
(w) Add a review period so that issues can be identified and corrected
== Mairin Duffy - Design ==
(-) Need to see feedback to the Design list as opposed to sprung on blogs
(w) Six more designers on the team!
(w) pink pony!!!!11!!
== Jesse Keating - Release Engineering ==
(+) Better involvement with QA and Triage
--improved confidence in QA beating on the trees
(+) Did a better job of managing the blocker lists
(+) Good help from others verifying blocker bugs
(+) Test Days ... more feature owners are requesting targeted testing
(+) No last minute compose-related surprises
(-) Better communication around what testing needs to be done
--improve capture of testing outside of the matrix (mailing lists)
(-) Clearer guidelines around code changes
(+) FAD Proposals -
(w) earlier review blocker bugs
--maybe weekly after we branch
(w) automated QA which provides automatic feedback
== Jóhann B. Guðmundsson - QA Team==
(w) Taking test days to the next level
--re-use live images for additional testing
(w) coordinate with upstream testing
(w) litmus testing system added to Fedora
--litmus is coded to be quite mozilla-specific (according to jlaska)
(w) Use of Fedora QA Trac system to track request from maintainers
(w) Host test day without requiring maintainer present
(-) lack consensus amongst maintainers if a reporter is supposed to
report to our bugzilla or upstream one
(w) Daily scheduled testing on components.
== Todd Zullinger -- Websites Team ==
(+) more complete translations than we've had before
(+) Infrastructure team syncing release content earlier than past releases
(w) relocate everyone to a tropical island where we can all work
together in person
== Mike McGrath - Infrastructure ==
(+) team is growing
(-) multiple release slips hindered work in infrastructure due to freezes
--one big slip would be nicer
(w) Feature freezes in earlier
(w) Contingency plans for core distro functionality
(w) Look for key ways that Infrastructure can enable success of QA Team
== Paul Frields ==
(+) Well coordinated for the releases including slip announcements
(+) Ambassadors did a great job behind the scenes
(-) Feedback mechanisms are unclear and point to too many different places
--documentation and marketing materials
--could anaconda bug reporting mechanism be helped by design team?
(w) Marketing, Docs, Website, Design team work on coordinated approach
to the Zicula (CMS)
--organized and well coordinated fashion
(w) More forceful in not allowing late/invasive changes to rawhide and
putting them off to next release
Hi there. I had applied for membership in the past, as well as Ambassadors,
but life happened. I feel I now have time and want to be an active
contributor to the Fedora Project in whatever way I can.
My history is that I was a systems admin for UNIX/Linux back in 1998-2002,
moved on to Technical Architect for Linux/AIX in 2002 to 2009 and now
working as an independent contractor. I played with Linux and open source
since 1988. My client contract right now is strictly Fedora in development
and Redhat Enterprise in production.
I am RHCE since 2002. I also have long background with AIX/Solaris and
working towards RHCA (just completed my Redhat Clustering and Storage exam
I would love to help out anyway I can.