As per our meeting yesterday we have some deadlines coming up and some
priorities to meet. We've identified 3 projects which must be done
before FC7 ships and one project which would be nice to have done by
1) Install and have the devs work with various VCS solutions and pick
our future one (even if that is to just stick with CVS). Hopefully
we'll be able to eliminate some early runners so we can focus on just
a few. We're tracking this information in:
2) RPM database: this could be a great tool. Here's the current
3) Fedora Updates System - A system for pushing out our updated
packages. Here's its project page:
4) The New Accounts system - This is one we have to make sure we spend
the time to get right. It would be nice to have something by FC7 but
that's not a must. Its project page is:
All of these areas are going to need help some right away some not for
a while. For the newcommers interested in working on these projects
I'd suggest being patient and taking some time to learn a bit about
each of the projects and where it is. Then contact the project leader
for various tasks. Project leaders.... have some tasks ready ;-)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mike McGrath <mmcgrath(a)fedoraproject.org>
Date: Oct 16, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: Welcome newcomers
To: Fedora Infrastructure <fedora-infrastructure-list(a)redhat.com>
We've had a few new introductions to the list. Welcome! For those
ready to jump right in I have two tickets that have been out there for
a while. One of which could be fairly easy, the other - not so easy.
We've got one outstanding ticket to create something more meaningful
when a new account gets created. Anyone with a fedora user account
can access and comment on this ticket so if you're interested in
working on it, reply to the list and I'll lock it for you.
The other task may take quite a bit longer. Unfortunately we don't
have a test version of our current accounting system so whoever wants
it will have to spend some time installing the various components,
databases and getting it up and going. It would be great if they had
their own test environment for this, if not we can set you up with one
but our resources are limited so it will take longer :) This ticket
can be found at:
Anyone interested in either of these tickets can let me know and I'll
lock it for them. Make sure you reply to the list so we don't have
multiple people working on the same issues. Neither of these tickets
require sponsorship, just a signed CLA. Those planning on sticking
around for a while would be good to find an officer who is in charge
of an area that interests you. We can't sponsor everyone just for
asking, but offer some help. There's plenty to be done.
If you're not interested/able to do these tasks don't worry. Stuff
pops up all the time! Take a look at the open bugzilla infrastructure
tickets or the open OTRS tickets and see if something else interests
B/c of the fuckage with coker's planet feed I upgraded planet to the
version from fedora extras devel packages. The packages were rebuilt on
my centos4 build root in mock.
1. where do we put packages like this?
2. who else wants to know how to be the planet-maintenance bitch other
The IRC log from today's Infrastructure meeting is attached.
16:00 < mmcgrath> We ready to have a meeting?
16:01 < iWolf> mmcgrath: I am here.
16:02 < mmcgrath> Role call: Who's here?
16:02 * lmacken
16:02 < mikec> I'm on
16:02 * jwatson is here
16:02 < lyz> on but away for a min
16:04 < mmcgrath> Welp, the way these things usually go is we follow the Schedule listed on http://fedoraproject
16:04 < mmcgrath> Its not a hard and fast rule, but its good to have in front of you while we do the meetings.
16:06 < mmcgrath> So the first item is the unifying look and feel for admin.fedoraproject.org.
16:06 < mmcgrath> Its still unclaimed so if any of the new people want it, just put your name as the 'project' l
16:07 < mmcgrath> next item is the Package Database.
16:07 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: anything to add? Whats going on with that?
16:07 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: its comminag along I havent done much yet but the other guys have
16:08 < mmcgrath> k.
16:08 < mmcgrath> we'll skip VCS for the moment.
16:08 < dgilmore> :)
16:08 < mmcgrath> iWolf: systems upgrades: anything to report?
16:09 < dgilmore> iWolf: i put a fc6 xen guest in for db2
16:09 < iWolf> I have a list of what is using what DB and which config files changed, tested restores on one of
the earlier xen guests.
16:09 < iWolf> All that went smoothly.
16:09 < dgilmore> RHEL4 just did not want to behave for me
16:09 < iWolf> Waiting on word if new hardware pans out.
16:09 < iWolf> dgilmore: Even the reboot of xen2 didn't help, eh?
16:10 < abompard> hey there
16:10 < mmcgrath> we should know for sure within a week or so. I should get shipping information by then.
16:10 < mmcgrath> abompard: yo
16:10 < dgilmore> iWolf: no it didint
16:10 < iWolf> mmcgrath: sounds great.
16:10 < mmcgrath> lmacken: around?
16:10 < iWolf> dgilmore: hhmmm
16:10 < lmacken> yup yup
16:10 < lmacken> firewalls
16:10 < lmacken> app1 is now running the pyroman configuration, although as far as I could tell the only traffic
app1 was getting was from the load balancer every second or so.
16:10 < mmcgrath> Whats the word on the firwalls?
16:11 < dgilmore> lmacken: did you ever look at the builders?
16:11 < lmacken> shouldn't all of the traffic going to the app servers be from the proxies ?
16:11 < mmcgrath> yeah, iWolf is going to do a brief audit tonight to find out what state everything is in.
16:11 < lmacken> dgilmore: not yet, definitely this weekend
16:11 < lmacken> awesome
16:11 < mmcgrath> It could be that all the proxy servers are accidently pointing to one app server.
16:11 < lmacken> most of our machines don't need to be running cups and sendmail :(
16:11 < iWolf> Yep, still planning on poking around on that tonight.
16:11 < iWolf> Plans to help fix that too!
16:11 < mmcgrath> no they don't.
16:12 < mmcgrath> we'll discuss that more on the ilst.
16:12 < lmacken> k
16:12 < mmcgrath> Documentation: I've added some stuff to the wiki as far as the getting started page and the Of
16:12 * mmcgrath notes some officers are still mostly blank ;-)
16:12 < mmcgrath> For the new people, what did you think of the getting started page, what is it missing if anyt
16:13 * dgilmore is guilty
16:13 < jwatson> I found it easy to follow
16:13 < jwatson> The only problem I ran into was getting Wiki Edit access.
16:14 < mmcgrath> Yeah, that parts kind of a crap shoot. Typically you have to know someone, or be known on the
lists to get access.
16:14 < mikec> it was pretty easy to use
16:14 < mmcgrath> Though, come to think of it, wiki edit access isn't totally a prerequisite to getting involved
16:15 < mmcgrath> but it does help.
16:15 < jwatson> I posted a couple of times in #fedora-websites, but nobody answered. :) I didn't try adding m
yself to the queue page.
16:15 < mmcgrath> jwatson: send an email to the list, we'll get you set up.
16:15 < mmcgrath> The next item is Xen: I think we can move that to done.
16:15 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: whats the word on the legacy buildsys?
16:16 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: we need something to build and make sure it is working
16:16 < jwatson> Yeah, I think Wiki Edit access could be one of those things that you get access to when you nee
d it. Maybe not necessary in the Getting Started list.
16:16 < dgilmore> push scipts need to be setup also
16:16 < mmcgrath> if I requested a build right now, what would happen?
16:16 < dgilmore> it should build
16:16 * mmcgrath goes to request a build
16:18 < jwatson> Can someone give a short description of the legacy build sys? Does it build Extras from cvs?
16:18 < mmcgrath> jwatson: actually the legacy buildsys is to build packages for Fedora-Legacy.
16:19 < mmcgrath> just as the extras buildsys builds packages for extras.
16:19 < mmcgrath> they're actually the same buildsys :)
16:19 < mmcgrath> ok, I'll keep you guys informed about that.
16:20 < lmacken> hmm, it might be nice to have a WikiEdit group in the account system
16:21 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: something's farked in the makefile I think - Server returned an error: This build se
rver is set up for building CVS checkouts only.
16:21 < mmcgrath> we'll get back to that.
16:21 < mmcgrath> One of the big things I wanted to discuss is some priorities on our projects.
16:21 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: yeah you need to use a cvs tag to build
16:21 < mmcgrath> We've got a deadline for a couple of things thats quickly approaching.
16:21 < dgilmore> you cant build SRPMS
16:21 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: that came from a "make plague" :)
16:22 < dgilmore> hmm then we need to fix legacy's Makefiles
16:22 < mmcgrath> yeah
16:22 < mmcgrath> Ok, so we've got the VCS to choose
16:22 < mmcgrath> The Accounting System to get under way
16:23 < mmcgrath> and the package database.
16:23 < dgilmore> how are the test VCS's comming along?
16:23 < mmcgrath> I see these as our 3 biggest areas, anyone have anything to add to that list?
16:23 < abadger1999> I need to free up time.
16:23 < abadger1999> Although one of the new people pinged me yesterday with some interest in that.
16:24 < mmcgrath> we need to start getting the developers involved. It'll probably be them that picks it.
16:24 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: id agree they are our biggest things
16:24 < dgilmore> and they are big
16:24 < mmcgrath> We've got SVN up, they all know how CVS works.
16:24 < mmcgrath> we're looking at mercurial and possibly git?
16:24 < dgilmore> bazzar?
16:24 < mmcgrath> and bazzar
16:24 * mmcgrath goes to look at the page
16:24 < abadger1999> Yeah. Bazaar is furthest along.
16:24 < abadger1999> No one's taken git.
16:25 < abadger1999> There's plenty of inhouse (inside RH) knowledge of mercurial but everyone's busy.
16:25 < mmcgrath> For the new guys: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/VersionControl/ArchitectureDraf
16:25 < abadger1999> Err... svn might be further than bzr as mmcgrath set it up :-)
16:25 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: we might want to tap warren and maybe skvidal
16:25 < mmcgrath> yeah, svn's up and ready :)
16:26 * dgilmore hasnt done git before but i guess no time better to learn that the present
16:26 < abompard> dudes, I'm sorry but I gotta run. No news from me on the Accounting System, I just didn't find
the time lately. Sorry, I'll try to free some
16:26 < lyz> abompard catch ya later
16:26 < mmcgrath> abompard: no problem. See you around.
16:26 < abadger1999> Accounting sys -- do you guys want new helpers?
16:26 < lyz> in a bit yes
16:26 < mmcgrath> we've got lots of new people that could aid in that.
16:26 < lyz> the web site will have to be modified to use LDAP
16:27 < mmcgrath> LOTS of stuff will have to be modified to use LDAP :)
16:27 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: :-)
16:27 < lyz> I've got a xen instance now
16:27 < mmcgrath> lmacken: real quick, can you give some info as to what the "update system" is?
16:27 < lyz> going to work on that today
16:28 < lmacken> the Fedora Update System is the tool used to push core updates
16:28 < lmacken> I'm working on porting it over to TurboGears and allowing it to encompass core/extras/legacy
16:28 < dgilmore> lmacken: that would be very cool
16:29 < mmcgrath> is that something we'd want ready by FC7?
16:29 < lmacken> yeah. I will probably dump my svn repo into our svn repo soon
16:29 < mmcgrath> cool, Ok. So I'll add that to the top priority list.
16:29 < lmacken> sounds good
16:30 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: what are your thoughts on the packaging database?
16:30 < mmcgrath> ready for FC7?
16:30 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i would really hope so
16:30 < mmcgrath> ok, so. We've got 6 months to put out 4 pretty major projects.
16:30 < abadger1999> We should be able to get some form of package DB out before FC7
16:30 < mmcgrath> starting... like a week ago.
16:31 < dgilmore> though we added a few thinks like a way to generate the comps file from it
16:31 < abadger1999> dgilmore: I was already planning on that as a feature :-)
16:31 < mmcgrath> I don't want to push the accounting system to force it out by FC7 if its not ready, that one c
ould wait until after since we already have a working account system.
16:31 < dgilmore> abadger1999: :)
16:31 < mmcgrath> but the other three I'd like to put a solid deadline on.
16:31 < abadger1999> dgilmore: Although I put it in as a "possibly do it later"
16:31 < mmcgrath> officers, sound good?
16:32 < abadger1999> Sounds good.
16:32 < iWolf> Sounds good to me.
16:32 < mmcgrath> We'll have to hit the devs hard after FC6 gets out the door.
16:32 < mmcgrath> to help test and all that.
16:33 < lmacken> mmcgrath: sounds good
16:33 < mmcgrath> Ok, so with that done. I'll open the floor.
16:34 < mmcgrath> who's got what?
16:34 < dgilmore> im going to sit down and do some coding on plague soon anyone have anything they want added
16:34 < mmcgrath> can you make it bake cookies?
16:36 < lyz> mmmm cookies
16:36 < mmcgrath> Anyone else have anything?
16:37 < lmacken> yeah
16:37 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: no cookies for you
16:37 < lmacken> I added the mirror management frontend to the wishlist.
16:37 < lmacken> I put some basic requirements on the wiki a while back
16:37 < lmacken> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/MirrorManagement
16:37 < lmacken> some of which is now being done by seth's check-mirrors code.
16:37 < lmacken> having a web tool to monitor the health of our mirrors would be nice
16:38 < lmacken> any takers?
16:38 < lmacken> if not we can do it onlist
16:38 < mmcgrath> kind of like: http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?repo=rawhide&arch=i386&stats=1
16:38 < mmcgrath> I've been modifying that code heavily since it went out. its kind of on a freeze right now un
til FC6 is out.
16:39 < lmacken> yeah, that's definitely a start
16:39 < lyz> would nagios work?
16:39 < jwatson> What about mrtg or cricket?
16:39 < mmcgrath> nagios could do some of it. Its got a fully functional database back end.
16:39 < f13> mmcgrath: ping?
16:39 < f13> mmcgrath: whats up with bash?
16:39 < mmcgrath> f13: pong.
16:39 < mmcgrath> we were testing the legacy buildsystem. Just a release bump.
16:39 < lmacken> mmcgrath: we also want the mirror admins to be able to self service their mirrors and whatnot
16:40 < mmcgrath> It failed though so I'll have to find out what happened.
16:40 < f13> mmcgrath: the diff was huge
16:40 < mmcgrath> huh? shouldn't have been.
16:40 < mmcgrath> link?
16:41 < f13> I don't know if it's on viewcvs, but you added something like 15 changelog entries
16:41 < mmcgrath> I must not be on that list. Forward it to me, I'll take a look.
16:41 < mmcgrath> lmacken: nod, maybe one of our new devs would like to assist on it.
16:42 < mmcgrath> f13: OOOHHH, I know what happened... my bad.
16:42 < mmcgrath> I copied the FC-4 bash.spec to the FC-3 tree. I'll fix it.
16:42 < f13> haha, ok.
16:43 < abadger1999> it would be nice to start breaking subtasks out of all the development items so we can hav
e things we parcel out to new devs.
16:43 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: do you want to start taking some of that over?
16:43 < abadger1999> Yeah.
16:43 < mmcgrath> :: whew :: :P
16:43 < abadger1999> I've started working on it for the packageDB.
16:43 < abadger1999> I can do some of that for VCS as well.
16:44 < mmcgrath> I'll send a cattle call out to the list to see if anyone has previous GIT experience. If not
dgilmore and I will just have to sit down and learn it ;-)
16:44 < abadger1999> Acct Sys and Update Sys I'd like feedback from you guys about what tasks you think would go
well for a new user.
16:44 < jwatson> What language or methodology do we write things like the Mirror Manager in? Are we standardizi
ng on TurboGears? Or is it whatever gets the job done?
16:45 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: There's also things like writing testing scripts to see how far the various VCS's
16:45 < lmacken> I think TurboGears can really help speed up our development process too. All we need at first
is an svn repo; turbogears can be run locally without a production envorinment.
16:45 < abadger1999> and importers to get data from CVS quickly when the time comes.
16:45 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: just chatting with jeremy we are going to branch extras monday
16:45 < abadger1999> and porting the Makefile.common to the new VCS's.
16:45 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: yeah. The CVS change is really a big project. And it will require testing from
extras and devel.
16:45 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: excellent.
16:46 < abadger1999> lmacken: svn repo for TG?
16:46 < lmacken> abadger1999: no, for each project
16:47 < mmcgrath> for now I'd think the tg stuff should go in the fedora cvs.
16:47 < abadger1999> lmacken: Just for general management of the code? Like the current cvs stuff?
16:48 < lmacken> abadger1999: yes, you can run local development instances outside of the production code
16:48 < lmacken> great for testing
16:48 < mmcgrath> lmacken: you mean turbogears has some sort of built-in svn integration?
16:48 < lmacken> mmcgrath: no, no. i was just saying that all it needs is a repo.
16:48 < mmcgrath> got'cha ;-P
16:49 < mmcgrath> ok, so we'll get started on that. In the meantime we all need to pick our favorite SVN repo a
16:49 < mmcgrath> err not SVN repo. VCS system.
16:49 < abadger1999> lmacken: k. So like fedora cvs but in svn rather than cvs.
16:49 < mmcgrath> Whatever gets chosen will need to be supported immediately, I'd hate for them to pick GIT and
have no one be familiar with it.
16:49 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: Bazaar :-)
16:49 * mmcgrath shutters
16:50 < jwatson> I'm familiar with svn. Could learn git too.
16:50 < mmcgrath> email sent.
16:51 < mmcgrath> We can discuss the rest of this on the list.
16:51 < abadger1999> Bazaar was a natural progression from svn for me. The commands feel more natural than merc
urial or git (from my svn background).
16:51 < mmcgrath> Gotta keep short meeting times :D
16:51 < mmcgrath> I've never used bazaar in my life.
16:51 < abadger1999> ha ha.
16:51 < mmcgrath> I've been to one before.
16:51 < lmacken> ditto
16:51 < lmacken> (wrt using it)
16:52 < mmcgrath> Ok, so does anyone have anything else before I close the meeting?
16:52 < abadger1999> What about repos for our rpms?
16:52 < dgilmore> not I
16:52 < mmcgrath> Ohhh yeah.
16:52 < mmcgrath> thanks DGILMORE ;-)
16:52 * dgilmore nearly forgot that
16:52 * abadger1999 prods mmcgrath
16:52 * iWolf forgot too
16:53 < mmcgrath> Ok, so I'm going to create a yum repo on fpserv that will get replicated to our app servers.
16:53 < mmcgrath> The plan right now is to follow the same format/name space as the fedora repos.
16:53 < mmcgrath> They will be yumable as well.
16:53 < mmcgrath> I'll send the final info to the list about exactly where the master is. I'll copy all the RPM
S in our CVS db to it.
16:53 < mmcgrath> sound good?
16:54 < iWolf> mmcgrath: sounds good to me.
16:54 < dgilmore> yep sounds good to me
16:54 < dgilmore> we have yum on the RHEL sevrers?
16:54 < abadger1999> sounds good.
16:55 < abadger1999> At FESCo someone asked if we're using the vanilla FC3 build of rpms or our own rebuild.
16:55 < mmcgrath> not yet but we will
16:55 < mmcgrath> and RHEL5 uses yum by default.
16:55 < abadger1999> If it was a rebuild, why not just put the support in the devel branch instead of an FC3.
16:56 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: I've just been using the extras buildsys.
16:56 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: k. So we are using the FC3 built rpm for now?
16:56 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: yeah.
16:57 < mmcgrath> Sometimes I use karan's repo.
16:57 < mmcgrath> FC3 != RHEL4 but they're pretty damn close.
16:57 < mmcgrath> Ok, one more time. Does anyone have anything else :)
16:58 * dgilmore shuts up this time
16:59 < mmcgrath> alllrighty. Then I'll call meeting end in 30
16:59 < mmcgrath> 15
16:59 < mmcgrath> 10
16:59 < mmcgrath> 5
16:59 < mmcgrath> 4
16:59 < mmcgrath> 3
16:59 < mmcgrath> 1.5
16:59 < mmcgrath> 1
16:59 < mmcgrath> ------- END ---------------
Since a lot of new members have arrived (yay, welcome all! :) I suggest
we create a wiki page listing all members (active, inactive, prospective
ones) and the things they love to do, similar to this one:
Probably include a column "Sponsor" too?
(And also add a step "Add yourself to the list of team members on the
Contributors page." in the steps-for-new-members.)
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B
"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
Throwing this out there for anyone interested. Karsten (quaid) has
requested a script that will compare the packages between two
releases. Below is a quick IRC chat we had. I've been busy with
other stuff so I won't be able to get to it right away. The idea of
coming to us is maintainability. Whatever we end up with will end up
in CVS and maintained by us so anyone out there that's good with
Perl/Python/XML sign up. Don't take it if you don't have time to do
it, I already did that :) Whoever wants it go ahead and reply to the
list so everyone knows, and add it to:
If you need any help let me know and I'll point you in the right direction.
======== From #fedora-docs ===========
[15:16:54] * quaid gets an example
[15:18:06] <quaid> and someone did help with that list, which I
just put into a <screen> block
[15:19:30] <quaid> so, you can see a bit of the package info in
there, and the designation of if it is coming in or out.
[15:20:11] <quaid> naturally, it would be cool for it to say what
happened to a package leaving, such as going to Extra, but that
doesn't seem doable
... that info isn't stored anywhere to extract.
[15:20:24] <quaid> so, here is the need, in cascading order:
[15:20:29] <mmcgrath> k
[15:20:31] <quaid> 1. treediff -> a nice list
[15:20:39] <quaid> 2. nice list -> XML list
[15:21:06] <quaid> 3. a nice script that can be run somewhere to
let a clueless editor do this easily
[15:21:10] <quaid> </>
[15:21:49] <quaid> we want to put in the set for each test, etc.,
so it shows the package changes incrementally in that way.
[15:23:25] <mmcgrath> I got'cha.
[15:23:45] <mmcgrath> So what of that stuff would you like the
infrastructure team to do?
[15:26:37] <mmcgrath> quaid: I think I'm following you now, you
just really want some scripts to do all of this stuff automatically
and then stick the
results somewhere for you guys to do some final touches.
[15:27:34] <quaid> mmcgrath: right, although the results could be
a 100% valid XML document (header declaring it as e.g. a 'section'),
and we really
don't need to anything more than XInclude it.
[15:28:45] <quaid> also, a reason for turning to Infrastructure v.
cooking it up ourselves in maintainability ... we want something that
is part of
the formal process and has some support so when e.g. treediff or
something changes, the smarts are there to fix it. :)
[15:29:57] <mmcgrath> I don't think that will be too much of a
problem. We can at least have SOMETHING to you soon. you'll probably
have to get back
to me a few times about how to fine tune it
I'm new here and to introduce me here a small list of what I'm doing,
Full Name: Mario Verbelen
Profession: Linux/network engineer
My goals: learning allot
Languages: dutch and a little English
Most of my time I'm working on learning usefully application (most of
them network tools)
Sins 1999 I'm working with rpm based distro's
At the moment I'm working with rhes, centos and fedora
skills-, advanced administration of lvm, partitioning, kernel,
filesystems, bash scripting, networking tools(ebtables, iptables, qos,
bridging, wireshark/ethereal/tcpdump, bind, ntp, apache, cacti, ...)
as newbie programmer am also playing with php/mysql
Other skills-, cisco, checkpoint, nokia, san, vmware(exs/vc) ....