On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 11:19 PM, P J P <pjp(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> On Sunday, 29 November 2015 6:56 PM, sankarshan wrote:
> Why would be a stretch? The FreeMedia program works on
> the basis of tickets. And I am not sure if anyone does
> actually check (a) for unique recipients (b) geographical
> coverage of the media distribution.
It would be a stretch to do so without any effort to
evaluate the impact. And secondly there is a demand for it.
There is demand for it because it is provided to the recipient at "no cost".
The 2000 DVD count I shared in another thread was received
from various ambassadors across APAC region. Third, lot of
the counts were for DVDs as swag at release parties and other
> We have the FreeMedia program running because it requires the project
> to invest a very minimal amount of money while depending largely upon
> the goodwill of the volunteers mailing the media out. If you discount
> the cost of the media, every single DVD mailed costs around 35 INR. It
> might seem little, but 100 units of such mailing is a good amount of
> money to ask volunteers to bear the trouble for. The question then
> comes up - why are we asking them?
I don't think we are asking them. Since there is request/demand for
the media, we are providing.
"Freemedia is a wonderful idea and coordinates small contributions
from people around the world to deliver media to those who otherwise
would not be able to enjoy Fedora. All this is made using Fedora
Infrastructure. If you like this concept, and you like Fedora, you can
easily become a member. We ask for two disk monthly plus shipping,
please consider joining the Freemedia team ."
The present contributors to Freemedia do more than what is 'asked'.
The DVDs have been produced and part of that production made available
for F21 and F22 (with perhaps F23). And hand-rolling own media puts
the per media cost at more than 35 INR. So, if we do have a wonderful
idea that coordinates small contributions, what can we do to
demonstrate that Freemedia actually works? That those who receive the
media do really install (even if it means dual-boot installs on most
OEM supplied hardware)?
Why do I care about these questions? Well, it is not beyond the realms
of the possible to think that Freemedia will continue for ever or, the
volunteers for Freemedia will continue to shell out for
postage/mailer. What is the plan if that comes about? Do we have
another way to get to those who would want to enjoy Fedora? Are such
people being coached in the way to use Fedora as a platform and do
There will always be inequalities of distribution which would require
those who have access to think and do something about those who do
not. But if Freemedia is the extent to which we will think and then do
nothing much, it would be akin to handing around fishing rods without
ever taking time to teach anyone to fish.
> Is it making the project itself complacent to find (a) ways to
> measure impact (b) ways to create a participant base (c) ways to
> have a feedback loop
Who do you mean by project here? IMO currently(probably so far)
these activities are done in quite ad-hoc ways. Not sure if there
is an active body with such a stated mandate.
The Fedora Project. With FAmSCo being the (until it dissolves) node
for Ambassadors, it is perhaps worth thinking about locally within the
country before going out and discussing at an APAC level and beyond?
Recently there was a meeting organized in context of an upcoming
meeting at Singapore. Was there a discussion about around the state of
the Fedora community in India? Or, whether there are ways in addition
to Freemedia which are of greater relevance?
> Why are they different aspects? A few emails back you mentioned that
> in your opinion the distribution is a way to obtain new customer base.
Ie. user/consumer base. Active participation is quite different than
using a product IMO.
The point I have been belaboring over is that there is not enough data
at hand to suggest that across the country we have (a) a large and
growing user base (b) a large and growing participant base. I'd be
more than happy to read specific instances where parts of the Fedora
project have gained from contributors and users originating from
> Well, every campaign takes stock of whether such new customer
> have actually happened. How would you do that in case of FreeMedia?
Fot starters, these recipients could be subscribed to the fedora-users
list. Or at least we could note down their contact(<name,email,phone>)
information for further follow-ups.
> I think the participation in the community in India is not similar to
> writing editorials. As a straw-man argument it is a fine stretch.
> Editorials are written by on-staff contributors and invited experts.
> However, regular recipients of free copies do often pop up on the
> digital boards (newspaper forums, letters to the editor).
Yes, I did not mean the the ones written by the editors/staff. But the
comments/columns on the editorial pages sent in by the readers. There is
no expectation from readers to send those comments/content for receiving
In other words, there is an acceptance of the lack of any
participation from the users/recipients. The basis of that assumption
is what I seek to question.
> The percentage breakdown I provided in my original email is
> the pessimistic one. The problem is that each time this thread comes
> up, there is a continued narrative around "FreeMedia is making a
> difference". The issue here is that there is no way to figure out as
Agreed. As said above, to start with we could at least note down the
recipients contact information. While simultaneously figure out other
ways to measure the impact of the free DVDs. Ex. an automatic intimation
is sent to Fedora servers when an installation is finished. (It'd
require network access, but just an example)
The trac ticket has the contact information with address and PIN. It
might be (non)trivial to overlay it across a map of the country and
see the 'heat' points. And if those regions continue to not have any
Fedora events, or, presence, it might be useful to seek more detail.
And the FAD budget planning would be aided by this data point to
consider organizing a FAD and couple of workshops.
> And while we spin our wheels on it, we are missing out on the
> opportunity to see how else we can create the impact. Or, in other
> words, what are the possible answers to "We do not seem to have enough
> contributors to the various aspects of the project, how can we bring
> about an up-tick?"
That needs to be a separate thread of discussion/debate.
This isn't the first time in this thread that you've mentioned things
to be discussed and debated separately. The issue here is that for all
the separate discussions at the end of it all it distills itself to a
single concept - how best to grow the community of contributors and
participants in the Fedora project. Everything that is planned has to
align in some form across this.