Hello all,
FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient resources to revive and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did not find enough manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users community, so we decided to stop maintaining it.
Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora Documentation project side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already closed respective Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. Should we also orphan the guide in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides
or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should close the "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as nobody from our team would be responding there.
Thanks for any advise.
2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com:
Hello all,
FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient resources to revive and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did not find enough manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users community, so we decided to stop maintaining it.
Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora Documentation project side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already closed respective Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. Should we also orphan the guide in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides
or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should close the "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as nobody from our team would be responding there.
Hi Martin,
What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity Management Guide for RHEL?
Should we rely solely on the product help for that documentation?
Regards,
J.
On 10/15/2014 04:03 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com:
Hello all,
FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient resources to revive and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did not find enough manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users community, so we decided to stop maintaining it.
Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora Documentation project side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already closed respective Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. Should we also orphan the guide in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides
or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should close the "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as nobody from our team would be responding there.
Hi Martin,
What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity Management Guide for RHEL?
Hello Jérôme,
RHEL guides as listed in http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides are still actively maintained by Red Hat Technical Writer(s) and should be up to date. I added direct links to report any bugs that FreeIPA users may find.
Should we rely solely on the product help for that documentation?
No. We want to focus on documentation in FreeIPA.org project community wiki, i.e. design documents, (user) HOWTO articles or any other general articles that our users or developers contribute to.
Wiki is generally much more easy to contribute due to easy syntax and narrow focus of the pages. Maintaining whole user guide book in docbook is on a whole different level of complexity and resource requirement on it's contributors - thus the move from it upstream.
Martin
On 10/15/2014 05:30 PM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 04:03 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com:
Hello all,
FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient resources to revive and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did not find enough manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users community, so we decided to stop maintaining it.
Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora Documentation project side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already closed respective Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. Should we also orphan the guide in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides
or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should close the "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as nobody from our team would be responding there.
Hi Martin,
What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity Management Guide for RHEL?
Hello Jérôme,
RHEL guides as listed in http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides are still actively maintained by Red Hat Technical Writer(s) and should be up to date. I added direct links to report any bugs that FreeIPA users may find.
Should we rely solely on the product help for that documentation?
No. We want to focus on documentation in FreeIPA.org project community wiki, i.e. design documents, (user) HOWTO articles or any other general articles that our users or developers contribute to.
Wiki is generally much more easy to contribute due to easy syntax and narrow focus of the pages. Maintaining whole user guide book in docbook is on a whole different level of complexity and resource requirement on it's contributors - thus the move from it upstream.
Hello everyone,
Please let me revive that old thread of mine and revisit this subject as it these guides are now hurting the project too much to ignore it. We (the FreeIPA project) had numerous user confusions, mistakes and problems caused by these old, orphaned guides.
We already stopped linking to the guides from the FreeIPA project pages and published our User Guide statement in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide Currently, the only FreeIPA guides with sufficient staffing and contributions to maintain that big documentation project is with Red Hat and it's Identity Management guides: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides
However, the problem is that these guides still pop up in search engine results and FreeIPA user community members periodically come to us and are complaining that some procedure from https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html does not work or that it is not understandable even though the fixed documentation is live on Red Hat sites.
Can we please do something about it? I would suggest either:
1) Add big flash-y admonition to the top of every page in the user guides above, pointing to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide which collects all information about these user guides.
2) Remove these guides from Fedora docs side at all and ideally add a redirect to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I am looking for any guidance. Thank you!
On 07/01/2016 09:06 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 05:30 PM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 04:03 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com:
Hello all,
FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient resources to revive and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did not find enough manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users community, so we decided to stop maintaining it.
Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora Documentation project side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already closed respective Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. Should we also orphan the guide in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides
or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should close the "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as nobody from our team would be responding there.
Hi Martin,
What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity Management Guide for RHEL?
Hello Jérôme,
RHEL guides as listed in http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides are still actively maintained by Red Hat Technical Writer(s) and should be up to date. I added direct links to report any bugs that FreeIPA users may find.
Should we rely solely on the product help for that documentation?
No. We want to focus on documentation in FreeIPA.org project community wiki, i.e. design documents, (user) HOWTO articles or any other general articles that our users or developers contribute to.
Wiki is generally much more easy to contribute due to easy syntax and narrow focus of the pages. Maintaining whole user guide book in docbook is on a whole different level of complexity and resource requirement on it's contributors - thus the move from it upstream.
Hello everyone,
Please let me revive that old thread of mine and revisit this subject as it these guides are now hurting the project too much to ignore it. We (the FreeIPA project) had numerous user confusions, mistakes and problems caused by these old, orphaned guides.
We already stopped linking to the guides from the FreeIPA project pages and published our User Guide statement in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide Currently, the only FreeIPA guides with sufficient staffing and contributions to maintain that big documentation project is with Red Hat and it's Identity Management guides: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides
However, the problem is that these guides still pop up in search engine results and FreeIPA user community members periodically come to us and are complaining that some procedure from https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html does not work or that it is not understandable even though the fixed documentation is live on Red Hat sites.
Can we please do something about it? I would suggest either:
- Add big flash-y admonition to the top of every page in the user guides
above, pointing to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide which collects all information about these user guides.
This is a pretty good idea for our new future publishing system. Maybe we could make it automatically insert some kind of a banner as a guide reaches its EOL, explaining to anyone who finds it that it's out of date. We could have it trigger when a guide for final release X is published and slap that banner on every guide for release X-2. Preferably a floating one, not just something on top of the page, so people are sure to see it even if they open the page at an anchor instead of the top.
Or we could just unpublish old guides as a rule. Currently it really is pretty confusing.
- Remove these guides from Fedora docs side at all and ideally add a redirect to
http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I am looking for any guidance. Thank you!
I agree we should definitely remove these guides - if the most recent one is 3 years out of date and people still keep finding it and then getting confused, that's a no-brainer. I'm not sure about the redirects, though, I don't know if we can easily do that.
On 07/01/2016 12:15 PM, Petr Bokoc wrote:
On 07/01/2016 09:06 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 05:30 PM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 04:03 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com:
Hello all,
FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient resources to revive and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did not find enough manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users community, so we decided to stop maintaining it.
Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora Documentation project side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already closed respective Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. Should we also orphan the guide in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides
or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should close the "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as nobody from our team would be responding there.
Hi Martin,
What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity Management Guide for RHEL?
Hello Jérôme,
RHEL guides as listed in http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides are still actively maintained by Red Hat Technical Writer(s) and should be up to date. I added direct links to report any bugs that FreeIPA users may find.
Should we rely solely on the product help for that documentation?
No. We want to focus on documentation in FreeIPA.org project community wiki, i.e. design documents, (user) HOWTO articles or any other general articles that our users or developers contribute to.
Wiki is generally much more easy to contribute due to easy syntax and narrow focus of the pages. Maintaining whole user guide book in docbook is on a whole different level of complexity and resource requirement on it's contributors - thus the move from it upstream.
Hello everyone,
Please let me revive that old thread of mine and revisit this subject as it these guides are now hurting the project too much to ignore it. We (the FreeIPA project) had numerous user confusions, mistakes and problems caused by these old, orphaned guides.
We already stopped linking to the guides from the FreeIPA project pages and published our User Guide statement in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide Currently, the only FreeIPA guides with sufficient staffing and contributions to maintain that big documentation project is with Red Hat and it's Identity Management guides: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides
However, the problem is that these guides still pop up in search engine results and FreeIPA user community members periodically come to us and are complaining that some procedure from https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html
or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html
or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html
does not work or that it is not understandable even though the fixed documentation is live on Red Hat sites.
Can we please do something about it? I would suggest either:
- Add big flash-y admonition to the top of every page in the user guides
above, pointing to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide which collects all information about these user guides.
This is a pretty good idea for our new future publishing system. Maybe we could make it automatically insert some kind of a banner as a guide reaches its EOL, explaining to anyone who finds it that it's out of date. We could have it trigger when a guide for final release X is published and slap that banner on every guide for release X-2. Preferably a floating one, not just something on top of the page, so people are sure to see it even if they open the page at an anchor instead of the top.
Or we could just unpublish old guides as a rule. Currently it really is pretty confusing.
- Remove these guides from Fedora docs side at all and ideally add a
redirect to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I am looking for any guidance. Thank you!
I agree we should definitely remove these guides - if the most recent one is 3 years out of date and people still keep finding it and then getting confused, that's a no-brainer. I'm not sure about the redirects, though, I don't know if we can easily do that.
Here is a list of the current redirects: https://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ansible.git/tree/roles/fedora-...
Fedora infrastructure[1] manages that but it seems impossible to raise a ticket with their system.[2]
Try: rc.frenode.net in #fedora-admin
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure [2] https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/
On 07/01/2016 12:15 PM, Petr Bokoc wrote:
On 07/01/2016 09:06 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 05:30 PM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 04:03 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com:
Hello all,
FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient resources to revive and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did not find enough manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users community, so we decided to stop maintaining it.
Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora Documentation project side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already closed respective Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. Should we also orphan the guide in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides
or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should close the "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as nobody from our team would be responding there.
Hi Martin,
What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity Management Guide for RHEL?
Hello Jérôme,
RHEL guides as listed in http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides are still actively maintained by Red Hat Technical Writer(s) and should be up to date. I added direct links to report any bugs that FreeIPA users may find.
Should we rely solely on the product help for that documentation?
No. We want to focus on documentation in FreeIPA.org project community wiki, i.e. design documents, (user) HOWTO articles or any other general articles that our users or developers contribute to.
Wiki is generally much more easy to contribute due to easy syntax and narrow focus of the pages. Maintaining whole user guide book in docbook is on a whole different level of complexity and resource requirement on it's contributors - thus the move from it upstream.
Hello everyone,
Please let me revive that old thread of mine and revisit this subject as it these guides are now hurting the project too much to ignore it. We (the FreeIPA project) had numerous user confusions, mistakes and problems caused by these old, orphaned guides.
We already stopped linking to the guides from the FreeIPA project pages and published our User Guide statement in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide Currently, the only FreeIPA guides with sufficient staffing and contributions to maintain that big documentation project is with Red Hat and it's Identity Management guides: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides
However, the problem is that these guides still pop up in search engine results and FreeIPA user community members periodically come to us and are complaining that some procedure from https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html does not work or that it is not understandable even though the fixed documentation is live on Red Hat sites.
Can we please do something about it? I would suggest either:
- Add big flash-y admonition to the top of every page in the user guides
above, pointing to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide which collects all information about these user guides.
This is a pretty good idea for our new future publishing system. Maybe we could make it automatically insert some kind of a banner as a guide reaches its EOL, explaining to anyone who finds it that it's out of date. We could have it trigger when a guide for final release X is published and slap that banner on every guide for release X-2. Preferably a floating one, not just something on top of the page, so people are sure to see it even if they open the page at an anchor instead of the top.
Or we could just unpublish old guides as a rule. Currently it really is pretty confusing.
+1, it indeed makes sense for the general case. Did you create some RFE Bugzilla or should I do it somewhere?
- Remove these guides from Fedora docs side at all and ideally add a
redirect to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I am looking for any guidance. Thank you!
I agree we should definitely remove these guides - if the most recent one is 3 years out of date and people still keep finding it and then getting confused, that's a no-brainer. I'm not sure about the redirects, though, I don't know if we can easily do that.
Good! Please keep me posted, so that I can give the good news to FreeIPA developers!
Thanks, Martin
On Mon, 2016-07-11 at 17:31 +0200, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 07/01/2016 12:15 PM, Petr Bokoc wrote:
On 07/01/2016 09:06 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 05:30 PM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 04:03 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com:
Hello all,
FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient resources to revive and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did not find enough manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users community, so we decided to stop maintaining it.
Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora Documentation project side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already closed respective Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. Should we also orphan the guide in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides
or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should close the "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as nobody from our team would be responding there.
Hi Martin,
What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity Management Guide for RHEL?
Hello Jérôme,
RHEL guides as listed in http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides are still actively maintained by Red Hat Technical Writer(s) and should be up to date. I added direct links to report any bugs that FreeIPA users may find.
Should we rely solely on the product help for that documentation?
No. We want to focus on documentation in FreeIPA.org project community wiki, i.e. design documents, (user) HOWTO articles or any other general articles that our users or developers contribute to.
Wiki is generally much more easy to contribute due to easy syntax and narrow focus of the pages. Maintaining whole user guide book in docbook is on a whole different level of complexity and resource requirement on it's contributors - thus the move from it upstream.
Hello everyone,
Please let me revive that old thread of mine and revisit this subject as it these guides are now hurting the project too much to ignore it. We (the FreeIPA project) had numerous user confusions, mistakes and problems caused by these old, orphaned guides.
We already stopped linking to the guides from the FreeIPA project pages and published our User Guide statement in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide Currently, the only FreeIPA guides with sufficient staffing and contributions to maintain that big documentation project is with Red Hat and it's Identity Management guides: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides
However, the problem is that these guides still pop up in search engine results and FreeIPA user community members periodically come to us and are complaining that some procedure from https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html does not work or that it is not understandable even though the fixed documentation is live on Red Hat sites.
Can we please do something about it? I would suggest either:
- Add big flash-y admonition to the top of every page in the
user guides above, pointing to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide which collects all information about these user guides.
This is a pretty good idea for our new future publishing system. Maybe we could make it automatically insert some kind of a banner as a guide reaches its EOL, explaining to anyone who finds it that it's out of date. We could have it trigger when a guide for final release X is published and slap that banner on every guide for release X-2. Preferably a floating one, not just something on top of the page, so people are sure to see it even if they open the page at an anchor instead of the top.
Or we could just unpublish old guides as a rule. Currently it really is pretty confusing.
+1, it indeed makes sense for the general case. Did you create some RFE Bugzilla or should I do it somewhere?
- Remove these guides from Fedora docs side at all and ideally
add a redirect to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I am looking for any guidance. Thank you!
I agree we should definitely remove these guides - if the most recent one is 3 years out of date and people still keep finding it and then getting confused, that's a no-brainer. I'm not sure about the redirects, though, I don't know if we can easily do that.
Good! Please keep me posted, so that I can give the good news to FreeIPA developers!
Thanks, Martin --
Hey Martin, I've just a robots.txt to disallow all user agents from indexing the FreeIPA Guide paths. I've also added a permanent redirect to the upstream documentation:
RewriteRule ^/.*?FreeIPA_Guide.*? "https://www.freeipa.org/page/Docu mentation" [R=301,L]
Both may take some time to propagate. Removing the content itself has proven troublesome, so I broke out the sysadmin-not-webdev hammer and pounded out a solution. Will this work for you?
-- Pete
On 08/05/2016 04:12 AM, Pete Travis wrote:
On Mon, 2016-07-11 at 17:31 +0200, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 07/01/2016 12:15 PM, Petr Bokoc wrote:
On 07/01/2016 09:06 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 05:30 PM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 04:03 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com: > Hello all, > > FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient > resources to > revive > and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did > not find enough > manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users > community, so we > decided to > stop maintaining it. > > Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: > http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide > > I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora > Documentation project > side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already > closed respective > Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. > Should we also > orphan the > guide in > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides > > or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should > close the > "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as > nobody from our team > would be responding there. Hi Martin,
What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity Management Guide for RHEL?
Hello Jérôme,
RHEL guides as listed in http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides are still actively maintained by Red Hat Technical Writer(s) and should be up to date. I added direct links to report any bugs that FreeIPA users may find.
Should we rely solely on the product help for that documentation?
No. We want to focus on documentation in FreeIPA.org project community wiki, i.e. design documents, (user) HOWTO articles or any other general articles that our users or developers contribute to.
Wiki is generally much more easy to contribute due to easy syntax and narrow focus of the pages. Maintaining whole user guide book in docbook is on a whole different level of complexity and resource requirement on it's contributors - thus the move from it upstream.
Hello everyone,
Please let me revive that old thread of mine and revisit this subject as it these guides are now hurting the project too much to ignore it. We (the FreeIPA project) had numerous user confusions, mistakes and problems caused by these old, orphaned guides.
We already stopped linking to the guides from the FreeIPA project pages and published our User Guide statement in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide Currently, the only FreeIPA guides with sufficient staffing and contributions to maintain that big documentation project is with Red Hat and it's Identity Management guides: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides
However, the problem is that these guides still pop up in search engine results and FreeIPA user community members periodically come to us and are complaining that some procedure from https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html does not work or that it is not understandable even though the fixed documentation is live on Red Hat sites.
Can we please do something about it? I would suggest either:
- Add big flash-y admonition to the top of every page in the
user guides above, pointing to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide which collects all information about these user guides.
This is a pretty good idea for our new future publishing system. Maybe we could make it automatically insert some kind of a banner as a guide reaches its EOL, explaining to anyone who finds it that it's out of date. We could have it trigger when a guide for final release X is published and slap that banner on every guide for release X-2. Preferably a floating one, not just something on top of the page, so people are sure to see it even if they open the page at an anchor instead of the top.
Or we could just unpublish old guides as a rule. Currently it really is pretty confusing.
+1, it indeed makes sense for the general case. Did you create some RFE Bugzilla or should I do it somewhere?
- Remove these guides from Fedora docs side at all and ideally
add a redirect to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I am looking for any guidance. Thank you!
I agree we should definitely remove these guides - if the most recent one is 3 years out of date and people still keep finding it and then getting confused, that's a no-brainer. I'm not sure about the redirects, though, I don't know if we can easily do that.
Good! Please keep me posted, so that I can give the good news to FreeIPA developers!
Thanks, Martin --
Hey Martin, I've just a robots.txt to disallow all user agents from indexing the FreeIPA Guide paths. I've also added a permanent redirect to the upstream documentation:
RewriteRule ^/.*?FreeIPA_Guide.*? "https://www.freeipa.org/page/Docu mentation" [R=301,L]
Both may take some time to propagate. Removing the content itself has proven troublesome, so I broke out the sysadmin-not-webdev hammer and pounded out a solution. Will this work for you?
Hi Pete,
Thanks for help! It sounds like this should indeed work, let us wait a bit until this propagates. I assume this means that FreeIPA Guide will be still listed in the Fedora Documentation left bar, but since it will be redirected to FreeIPA Documentation page, I assume it will bother more the Fedora Docs team than the FreeIPA team :-)
Martin
On 08/05/2016 09:27 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 08/05/2016 04:12 AM, Pete Travis wrote:
On Mon, 2016-07-11 at 17:31 +0200, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 07/01/2016 12:15 PM, Petr Bokoc wrote:
On 07/01/2016 09:06 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 05:30 PM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 04:03 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote: > 2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com: >> Hello all, >> >> FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient >> resources to >> revive >> and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did >> not find enough >> manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users >> community, so we >> decided to >> stop maintaining it. >> >> Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: >> http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide >> >> I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora >> Documentation project >> side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already >> closed respective >> Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. >> Should we also >> orphan the >> guide in >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides >> >> or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should >> close the >> "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as >> nobody from our team >> would be responding there. > Hi Martin, > > What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity > Management > Guide for RHEL? Hello Jérôme,
RHEL guides as listed in http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides are still actively maintained by Red Hat Technical Writer(s) and should be up to date. I added direct links to report any bugs that FreeIPA users may find.
> Should we rely solely on the product help for that > documentation? No. We want to focus on documentation in FreeIPA.org project community wiki, i.e. design documents, (user) HOWTO articles or any other general articles that our users or developers contribute to.
Wiki is generally much more easy to contribute due to easy syntax and narrow focus of the pages. Maintaining whole user guide book in docbook is on a whole different level of complexity and resource requirement on it's contributors - thus the move from it upstream.
Hello everyone,
Please let me revive that old thread of mine and revisit this subject as it these guides are now hurting the project too much to ignore it. We (the FreeIPA project) had numerous user confusions, mistakes and problems caused by these old, orphaned guides.
We already stopped linking to the guides from the FreeIPA project pages and published our User Guide statement in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide Currently, the only FreeIPA guides with sufficient staffing and contributions to maintain that big documentation project is with Red Hat and it's Identity Management guides: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides
However, the problem is that these guides still pop up in search engine results and FreeIPA user community members periodically come to us and are complaining that some procedure from https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html does not work or that it is not understandable even though the fixed documentation is live on Red Hat sites.
Can we please do something about it? I would suggest either:
- Add big flash-y admonition to the top of every page in the
user guides above, pointing to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide which collects all information about these user guides.
This is a pretty good idea for our new future publishing system. Maybe we could make it automatically insert some kind of a banner as a guide reaches its EOL, explaining to anyone who finds it that it's out of date. We could have it trigger when a guide for final release X is published and slap that banner on every guide for release X-2. Preferably a floating one, not just something on top of the page, so people are sure to see it even if they open the page at an anchor instead of the top.
Or we could just unpublish old guides as a rule. Currently it really is pretty confusing.
+1, it indeed makes sense for the general case. Did you create some RFE Bugzilla or should I do it somewhere?
- Remove these guides from Fedora docs side at all and ideally
add a redirect to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I am looking for any guidance. Thank you!
I agree we should definitely remove these guides - if the most recent one is 3 years out of date and people still keep finding it and then getting confused, that's a no-brainer. I'm not sure about the redirects, though, I don't know if we can easily do that.
Good! Please keep me posted, so that I can give the good news to FreeIPA developers!
Thanks, Martin --
Hey Martin, I've just a robots.txt to disallow all user agents from indexing the FreeIPA Guide paths. I've also added a permanent redirect to the upstream documentation:
RewriteRule ^/.*?FreeIPA_Guide.*? "https://www.freeipa.org/page/Docu mentation" [R=301,L]
Both may take some time to propagate. Removing the content itself has proven troublesome, so I broke out the sysadmin-not-webdev hammer and pounded out a solution. Will this work for you?
Hi Pete,
Thanks for help! It sounds like this should indeed work, let us wait a bit until this propagates. I assume this means that FreeIPA Guide will be still listed in the Fedora Documentation left bar, but since it will be redirected to FreeIPA Documentation page, I assume it will bother more the Fedora Docs team than the FreeIPA team :-)
Martin
Hi Pete,
I see the redirect still does not work and https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html is still active.
Maybe the RewriteRule does not work properly (I tested in an online .htaccess tester)? Instead of the original one, I tried following: ~~~ RewriteRule ^.*/FreeIPA_Guide/.*$ "https://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation" [R=301,L] ~~~ and it matched better in the online tester.
HTH, Martin
On 08/08/2016 09:12 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 08/05/2016 09:27 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 08/05/2016 04:12 AM, Pete Travis wrote:
On Mon, 2016-07-11 at 17:31 +0200, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 07/01/2016 12:15 PM, Petr Bokoc wrote:
On 07/01/2016 09:06 AM, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 10/15/2014 05:30 PM, Martin Kosek wrote: > On 10/15/2014 04:03 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote: >> 2014-10-15 13:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Kosek mkosek@redhat.com: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> FreeIPA project is already for some time without sufficient >>> resources to >>> revive >>> and maintain our former long upstream user guide. We did >>> not find enough >>> manpower either in FreeIPA developer nor our users >>> community, so we >>> decided to >>> stop maintaining it. >>> >>> Detailed justification including links to mail threads in: >>> http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide >>> >>> I would like to avoid leaving any loose ends on Fedora >>> Documentation project >>> side, do you have any recommendation for us? I already >>> closed respective >>> Bugzillas and upstream Trac tickets with explanation. >>> Should we also >>> orphan the >>> guide in >>> >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides >>> >>> or on any other locations? For starters, I think we should >>> close the >>> "freeipa-guide" component of "Fedora Documentation" as >>> nobody from our team >>> would be responding there. >> Hi Martin, >> >> What will happen to its downstream Linux Domain Identity >> Management >> Guide for RHEL? > Hello Jérôme, > > RHEL guides as listed in > http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides > are still actively maintained by Red Hat Technical Writer(s) > and should be up > to date. I added direct links to report any bugs that FreeIPA > users may find. > >> Should we rely solely on the product help for that >> documentation? > No. We want to focus on documentation in FreeIPA.org project > community wiki, > i.e. design documents, (user) HOWTO articles or any other > general articles that > our users or developers contribute to. > > Wiki is generally much more easy to contribute due to easy > syntax and narrow > focus of the pages. Maintaining whole user guide book in > docbook is on a whole > different level of complexity and resource requirement on it's > contributors - > thus the move from it upstream. Hello everyone,
Please let me revive that old thread of mine and revisit this subject as it these guides are now hurting the project too much to ignore it. We (the FreeIPA project) had numerous user confusions, mistakes and problems caused by these old, orphaned guides.
We already stopped linking to the guides from the FreeIPA project pages and published our User Guide statement in: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide Currently, the only FreeIPA guides with sufficient staffing and contributions to maintain that big documentation project is with Red Hat and it's Identity Management guides: http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides
However, the problem is that these guides still pop up in search engine results and FreeIPA user community members periodically come to us and are complaining that some procedure from https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html or https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide /index.html does not work or that it is not understandable even though the fixed documentation is live on Red Hat sites.
Can we please do something about it? I would suggest either:
- Add big flash-y admonition to the top of every page in the
user guides above, pointing to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide which collects all information about these user guides.
This is a pretty good idea for our new future publishing system. Maybe we could make it automatically insert some kind of a banner as a guide reaches its EOL, explaining to anyone who finds it that it's out of date. We could have it trigger when a guide for final release X is published and slap that banner on every guide for release X-2. Preferably a floating one, not just something on top of the page, so people are sure to see it even if they open the page at an anchor instead of the top.
Or we could just unpublish old guides as a rule. Currently it really is pretty confusing.
+1, it indeed makes sense for the general case. Did you create some RFE Bugzilla or should I do it somewhere?
- Remove these guides from Fedora docs side at all and ideally
add a redirect to http://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation#User_Guides or http://www.freeipa.org/page/Upstream_User_Guide
I am looking for any guidance. Thank you!
I agree we should definitely remove these guides - if the most recent one is 3 years out of date and people still keep finding it and then getting confused, that's a no-brainer. I'm not sure about the redirects, though, I don't know if we can easily do that.
Good! Please keep me posted, so that I can give the good news to FreeIPA developers!
Thanks, Martin --
Hey Martin, I've just a robots.txt to disallow all user agents from indexing the FreeIPA Guide paths. I've also added a permanent redirect to the upstream documentation:
RewriteRule ^/.*?FreeIPA_Guide.*? "https://www.freeipa.org/page/Docu mentation" [R=301,L]
Both may take some time to propagate. Removing the content itself has proven troublesome, so I broke out the sysadmin-not-webdev hammer and pounded out a solution. Will this work for you?
Hi Pete,
Thanks for help! It sounds like this should indeed work, let us wait a bit until this propagates. I assume this means that FreeIPA Guide will be still listed in the Fedora Documentation left bar, but since it will be redirected to FreeIPA Documentation page, I assume it will bother more the Fedora Docs team than the FreeIPA team :-)
Martin
Hi Pete,
I see the redirect still does not work and https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/FreeIPA_Guide/index.html is still active.
Maybe the RewriteRule does not work properly (I tested in an online .htaccess tester)? Instead of the original one, I tried following:
RewriteRule ^.*/FreeIPA_Guide/.*$ "https://www.freeipa.org/page/Documentation" [R=301,L]and it matched better in the online tester.
The redirect works now! Thanks guys!
Martin
-
Jérôme Fenal -
Martin Kosek -
Pete Travis -
Petr Bokoc -
Stephen Wadeley