<stickster> <meeting> <stickster> Sparks will capture the log and post with a summary. <stickster> Let's talk about wiki gardening --- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Documentation -- Wiki Gardening * quaid pulls in just in time <stickster> woo-hoo! <quaid> I like whatever stickster just recommended :) * Sparks would like a backup just in case <quaid> <meeting> <quaid> (to make it easier to find the start in the log) <quaid> oh, sorry! <ianweller> stickster already did that lol * quaid looks at his buffer and moves on <ianweller> now we have to close the meeting tag twice! >.> <quaid> yeah, now I messed it up <stickster> 's OK, doesn't count 'til quaid says so <stickster> It's a recursive meeting <quaid> ok, so ... <quaid> just to speak for a moment about page naming ... <quaid> well ... <quaid> I'm stuck mentally; <quaid> I see where we need to go to, but <quaid> i) don't have it clear enough to convince everyone here :) <quaid> ii) therefore don't have a clear plan to communicate widely <quaid> so, we don't need to take this meeting to work on/decide this _again_, but ... <quaid> anyone who hasn't weighed in on the discussion, please do so. <stickster> Otherwise we could talk about the big ticket gardening items, content-wise * ianweller wonders how we're going to implement the new organization schema <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help_talk:Wiki_Structure <quaid> ianweller: yeah, we really need to get the mailing list active with that * stickster would like to see us come out of this meeting with interested people having measurable task assignments, and having them written on a task list <quaid> in that I don't think we're going to solve it in a meeting, so I don't want to use ourselves up that way <quaid> ok, so, yeah <stickster> quaid: +1 <quaid> just wanted to remind people to work on that too <stickster> yeppers * stickster steals mizmo-ism <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks_(draft) ? * quaid cannot get that page to load, hang on <quaid> ok, there we go; and <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks <zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) <quaid> darnit, sorry, that was what I meant <quaid> ok, until :30 <quaid> we'll throw out any task ideas and update that list * quaid has the edit on that page <quaid> then we can spend untik :50 organizing/prioritizing. <quaid> sound OK? <stickster> cool beans <ianweller> sure * quaid reorganizes using the Tasks_(Draft) scheme <quaid> ok, open for task ideas <quaid> what does the wiki need gardened? into urls <stickster> * Reorg of packaging policy * <ianweller> ;) <abadger1999> stickster: +1 <quaid> * Renaming of end-user focused content (e.g. FedoraLive/LiveUSBHowTo) <stickster> * Moving obsolete stuff to Archive: * * ke4qqq is late <quaid> * moving meeting minutes to Meeting: <quaid> ke4qqq: no worries; we are reviewing the wiki gardening tasks, first <quaid> working on throwing out random ideas, then org. and assign them. <quaid> * reorg DocsProject as a model of how to reorg a project pages * quaid has that one there but wanted to post it :) <stickster> wow, major pruning there ;-) <stickster> * Find/prune orphans and dead links * <ianweller> * buy an ice cream cake after we're all done * <quaid> yeah, that one <stickster> yum <stickster> yum install icecreamcake <stickster> Any more? <quaid> disambiguation needs? <ianweller> steal mediawiki's templates for that? <quaid> * categorize all doc pages properly <quaid> * move all of them out of the Docs/*/ nesting <quaid> * set policy ofwhat is obsolete <quaid> N, N-1 or N, N-1, and N-2 * quaid thinks the latter, fwiw :) <ianweller> yes, the latter +1 <stickster> quaid: Yeah, there's no harm in carrying "people who are getting around to upgrading" <quaid> yep <stickster> And with Archive: we can make everything else less googlejuicy * quaid adds N+1 to that :D <quaid> stickster: b i n g o <stickster> We try never to think ahead. <quaid> ok, saving an update to that page <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks <zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) <quaid> seeing that list, anything else pop for anyone? <quaid> let's give this a few more minutes * quaid reorganizes the order a bit <quaid> ok, if that's it on the task ideas * quaid updates the org of that page <stickster> I think the Board asked for a +1 priority on package review guidelines. That will help FESCo drive more people to help with reviews. <quaid> ok, but page naming has to come first <quaid> right? <ianweller> agreed with both statements * wonderer1 late to SORRY <quaid> np <quaid> stickster: I mean ... they can happen in parallel, but ultimately nothing can be renamed without knowing the final page naming <stickster> quaid: Yes, parallel would be a good thing. * stickster trying not to get lost in process unless we have a definite length of tunnel, at the end of which is light <quaid> ok, so <quaid> any other thoughts on the priority there? <quaid> now, those are a mix of harder and easier tasks <stickster> 3 and 5 at the top <stickster> 8 and 10 are ongoing, very easy tasks for newbies <quaid> ah, we need to note that somewhow <quaid> should we make two categories here? <quaid> "olders and newbsters" <quaid> stickster: by "3 and 5 at the top" are you commenting on their difficulty or priority order? <stickster> quaid: Sorry, that was priority <stickster> Difficulty... I would say 7, 9, 11 are fairly tough <stickster> 8 and 10 are easier. <quaid> so, two questions: <quaid> i) should we sort by difficulty? (seems sane to me) <stickster> Is this a task list? <stickster> If so, then sort by priority. <quaid> ii) stickster, how to move 3 and 5 to the top if we already have a 1 and 2 <quaid> well, we could have two lists that sort by priority <quaid> just adjust the page nesting to have two sections <stickster> Two lists is fine -- one for vets, one for new folks <quaid> or just note the difficulty in the section * quaid works up an edit of how that looks, one second <wonderer1> to 1) i would say no. I would find it better if for difficult tasks something a "godfather" stands beside... * stickster happy someone else has an opinion to voice <stickster> I worry that the fact that very few people are speaking up is an indicator of how interested they are in these tasks. <quaid> well, we may not get assignment on them all <quaid> stickster: if people don't speak up with tasks, how do we know what interests them? <stickster> too true <quaid> I wouldn't worry too much, though; if we get an organized list first, we increase our chances across board <wonderer1> and for the "note the difficulty" I would find it as a newby hard to read HOW the note how the difficulty level should work is done... but maybe its a good idea. can we have a "demo" on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks ? <zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) <stickster> domestic disturbance, need to go -- back in 2 min * wonderer1 get a coffee at this 2 min. <stickster> back <wonderer1> how should the "wiki gardening HowTo" page be designed or structured? <stickster> ianweller: Sparks: ke4qqq: Do any of these tasks sound like things you want to help with? * quaid is doing a demo, one more moment pls * ianweller got caught up in work and has to get it done soonish, sorry, i'll read the logs <ke4qqq> ke4qqq: moving meeting minutes to meeting: sounds easy <ke4qqq> errr talking to myself... <quaid> right, we need to work up the steps a bit <quaid> e.g., links on from pages need to be fixed, which is easy with the "What links here" page <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks <zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) <quaid> ok, org'd by difficulty, sorted by priority * quaid removes tertiary sections <stickster> That looks good on a tty at least :-) <quaid> quadenary! <stickster> Anyone else care to comment? <quaid> ok, so there they are, now we need to talk about assignments <ke4qqq> one quick comment * wonderer1 would go for Find and prune orphans and dead links <quaid> wonderer1: that's great; let's quickly figure out how that process looks so we can put it in the task. <ke4qqq> It'd be nice to see a definitive list of what the elements of a good page are. ie category, etc. <stickster> ke4qqq: Wow, good point. <ke4qqq> that may exist but I haven't seen it <quaid> is that part of Help:Wiki_Structure? <quaid> should that be, that is <wonderer1> quaid: take one section by another, look over the pages, see if there are dead links and such stuff, delete it or correct ist...?! <quaid> or do we need a stand-alone page for that? <stickster> Example_wiki_page <stickster> But yes. <quaid> wonderer1: right for dead links; orphaned pages are ones that nothing links to, and we need to find if there is somewhere to link it from, etc. * quaid adds the page structure task <stickster> wonderer1: There are ways that MediaWiki can give you that information, using the Special: functions <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Specialpages <stickster> wonderer1: Let's leave that for after the meeting, come over to #fedora-docs and we can all talk there <quaid> 1 <wonderer1> stickster: I know, but at this time I'm not familiar with all of that. but google is my friend I think ;-) <stickster> ke4qqq: I would say, you just volunteered to write that Example_wiki_page. ;-) <ke4qqq> I don't mind, as long as people will add what is missing <quaid> ke4qqq: of course! <ke4qqq> as I am not sure I know what all of the elements are. <stickster> ke4qqq: You betcha, just email the list to let us know you're ready for more carpenteres. <quaid> just a catalystis needed, as usual <stickster> *carpenters <quaid> wonderer1: what is your FAS user name? <wonderer1> wonderer <quaid> :D * stickster notes we're at closing -2 minutes <wonderer1> without the "1" :-) <stickster> What about other task assignments? <quaid> I've got the page naming <stickster> quaid: If you want to drive the naming policy to a close for next week <stickster> ha, jinx <stickster> I'll see what I can do to start changing the package review guidelines stuff <quaid> hmm <stickster> probably in line with http://tinyurl.com/55ay2f <quaid> I wonder if there is a packager who wants to help? <stickster> Sure would be nice <stickster> Maybe I can get someone on FESCo to help with it ;-) * stickster sees the clock may have run out of sand <stickster> Is someone in this channel directly following us? <Sparks> stickster: Usually there is a meeting right after us <stickster> Sparks: You're alive! <stickster> ;-) <quaid> whoops, time to wrap up <quaid> yep, FAMSco or somebody :) <quaid> anything else, we can talk in #fedora-docs <fugolini> take you time :) <stickster> fugolini: Nope, we're out of here, it's all yours! <fugolini> feel free to finish <quaid> </meeting> <quaid> </meeting>